Need Mid format info for Nokias 3410/3510 please

Hi,

I have searched in vain for any info on what format the mid files are in
3410/3510 phones.

What happens is, I edit a mid and put it on my WAP site and dl it to the
phone ok but there are tracks missing.
I read on this NG that the mid only plays 4 chans at any one time, is this
the reason maybe?

So if I have a mid with 6 tracks, the last 2 will not get played?

Any info greatfully received,

Cheers

Skip

---

› See More: Need Mid format info for Nokias 3410/3510 please

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 23:53:08 +0000, The Skipper wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have searched in vain for any info on what format the mid files are in
> 3410/3510 phones.
>
> What happens is, I edit a mid and put it on my WAP site and dl it to the
> phone ok but there are tracks missing. I read on this NG that the mid
> only plays 4 chans at any one time, is this the reason maybe?

Yup those phones will only play upto 4 notes at any one time.

> So if I have a mid with 6 tracks, the last 2 will not get played?

Not necessarily, you can have a MIDI with 6 or more tracks, but they must
be mapped to channels 1 to 4. Anything above MIDI channel 4 is ignored by
the phone.

The Sound Converter tool in Nokia PC Suite is a very useful utility to
find out what will work and won't, and it enables you to move the MIDI
tracks around.

--
Michael Turner

Michael,
Thanks for the prompt reply.

I am not too conversant with mid(i).
I am getting tracks and chans mixed up then, I thought they were the same
I need to do a bit of reading up on the mid format now then.

What program would you recommend to do this sort of editing, that is,
mapping 6 or so tracks (staves?) to 4 chans.


Cheers,

Skip



"michael turner" <[email protected]> wrote in
message
news[email protected]...
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 23:53:08 +0000, The Skipper wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have searched in vain for any info on what format the mid files are in
> > 3410/3510 phones.
> >
> > What happens is, I edit a mid and put it on my WAP site and dl it to the
> > phone ok but there are tracks missing. I read on this NG that the mid
> > only plays 4 chans at any one time, is this the reason maybe?
>
> Yup those phones will only play upto 4 notes at any one time.
>
> > So if I have a mid with 6 tracks, the last 2 will not get played?
>
> Not necessarily, you can have a MIDI with 6 or more tracks, but they must
> be mapped to channels 1 to 4. Anything above MIDI channel 4 is ignored by
> the phone.
>
> The Sound Converter tool in Nokia PC Suite is a very useful utility to
> find out what will work and won't, and it enables you to move the MIDI
> tracks around.
>
> --
> Michael Turner

It can be a bit confusing,
what you read in the NG saying only plays 4 chans is misleading, it should
say 4 sounds at once, using your example if you had 6 tracks then the phone
will play each track in turn until it is playing the 4 sounds, for example,
if there are no sounds on track 1 & 2 then it will play tracks 3, 4, 5 & 6.
if say track 1 is playing a 4 note chord then none of the other tracks will
sound. The best way to edit a MIDI file to play on your phone would be to
place the most important tracks to the top for instance lead, also split the
drums up on to seperate tracks so that the kick drum is uppermost then snare
and so on and place the hi hats further down so for instance when the phone
uses up the 4 sounds it will not play the hi hat and it wont be as noticable
as say loosing the lead instrument.
If you email me I can send you a PDF file explaining it more

Karl

"The Skipper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> I have searched in vain for any info on what format the mid files are in
> 3410/3510 phones.
>
> What happens is, I edit a mid and put it on my WAP site and dl it to the
> phone ok but there are tracks missing.
> I read on this NG that the mid only plays 4 chans at any one time, is this
> the reason maybe?
>
> So if I have a mid with 6 tracks, the last 2 will not get played?
>
> Any info greatfully received,
>
> Cheers
>
> Skip
>
>

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 00:23:31 +0000, The Skipper wrote:

> Michael,
> Thanks for the prompt reply.
>
> I am not too conversant with mid(i).
> I am getting tracks and chans mixed up then, I thought they were the
> same I need to do a bit of reading up on the mid format now then.
>
> What program would you recommend to do this sort of editing, that is,
> mapping 6 or so tracks (staves?) to 4 chans.

OK Skip and anyone else who read this post.

Let's talk about Nokia Sound Converter 'NSC' as it's the most widely
available ringtone tool for Nokia phones.

Nokia's terminology is slightly different to what I originally used. What
I called 'track' they call 'channel', and what I called 'channel' they
call 'Polyphony User'.

Assuming you got NSC running. You load up a MIDI file, from the file
options. Then you go to the 'Advanced Conversion' screen. You will see
something like (view with a monospaced font e.g. Courier):

Channel Cumulative Polyphony
(calc) User
----------------------------------------------
! 1: Piano 7 1 ! \
! 10: Percussion 8 2 ! \----These will play.
! 2: Bass 9 3 ! /
! 3: Pipe 1 13 4 ! /
! 4: Guitar 15 5 ! \
! 5: Pipe 2 17 6 ! /-----These will NOT play.
----------------------------------------------

The idea is to shuffle the instruments (channels) you want in your
ringtone towards the top of the table, and then assign a 'Polyphony User'
in the range 1-4 to that instrument. Instruments outside that range will
be discarded and left out of the resulting ringtone, if the 'Optimize File
Size' box is ticked.

You can have more than one instrument assigned to a
'Polyphony user'. But an instrument may not sound if there are no
'Polyphony User's are available, e.g. the 'Piano' or 'Guitar' instrument
is playing chord.

Some experimentation is usually required to get a MIDI file that wasn't
intended as a ringtone, into a format suitable for a 4 channel
mobile phone (3510, etc.). Plus you got get the file size down to usually
less-than 20k.

HTH.

> "michael turner" <[email protected]> wrote
> in message
> news[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 23:53:08 +0000, The Skipper wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I have searched in vain for any info on what format the mid files are
>> > in 3410/3510 phones.
>> >
>> > What happens is, I edit a mid and put it on my WAP site and dl it to
>> > the phone ok but there are tracks missing. I read on this NG that the
>> > mid only plays 4 chans at any one time, is this the reason maybe?
>>
>> Yup those phones will only play upto 4 notes at any one time.
>>
>> > So if I have a mid with 6 tracks, the last 2 will not get played?
>>
>> Not necessarily, you can have a MIDI with 6 or more tracks, but they
>> must be mapped to channels 1 to 4. Anything above MIDI channel 4 is
>> ignored by the phone.
>>
>> The Sound Converter tool in Nokia PC Suite is a very useful utility to
>> find out what will work and won't, and it enables you to move the MIDI
>> tracks around.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Turner

--
Michael Turner

"michael turner" <[email protected]> wrote in
message
news[email protected]...
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 23:53:08 +0000, The Skipper wrote:
>
> Not necessarily, you can have a MIDI with 6 or more tracks, but they must
> be mapped to channels 1 to 4. Anything above MIDI channel 4 is ignored by
> the phone.

Just to clear things up, the phone can use all 16 MIDI channels but as you
say, only 4 sounds can be played at any one time.

Karl

Michael & Karl,

Thanks for the replies guys.
Very helpful and I am beginning to see the light

Karl, email has been sent.

Cheers again

Skip

<Snipped>

Skip,
You just need to set the mips to get what parts you want
Franklin


"The Skipper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> I have searched in vain for any info on what format the mid files are in
> 3410/3510 phones.
>
> What happens is, I edit a mid and put it on my WAP site and dl it to the
> phone ok but there are tracks missing.
> I read on this NG that the mid only plays 4 chans at any one time, is this
> the reason maybe?
>
> So if I have a mid with 6 tracks, the last 2 will not get played?
>
> Any info greatfully received,
>
> Cheers
>
> Skip
>
>