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  1. #1
    Anna
    Guest
    Hi.

    I know it's a cliche issue, but I would like to present my personal
    opinion about convergence phones.

    Like most people, I also have a mobile phone with camera, MP3 player,
    voice recorder, etc. At first, convergence phones seemed to be very
    convenient and economical, but I'm sick of those phones now. Not
    convenient and not economical. I should have bought an MP3 player and a
    digital camera separately because those functions' quality of cell
    phone could not satisfy me. The secondary functions of cell phones are
    only suitable for secondary use.

    Users can have a simpler, higher quality and smaller phones if
    manufacturers are willing to make them. However, most manufactures are
    just trying to put more and more functions into one device. They don't
    care about making simple but high-quality divergence devices (well,
    some companies care, but few). The moto of 'sliming' is just for
    developing convergence devices, even though they can make ultra-slim
    divergence devices with present technology.

    Somebody says that convergence is a big trend, and users choose that
    trend. Really? I don't think so. Manufacturers choose that trend, and
    the users are just forced to purchase convergence devices. Next time, I
    want to buy a simple cell phone supporting only phone call and SMS
    because I already have other electronic devices. I bet you that I can't
    buy a simple but nice phone. I can hardly find such a phone recently.
    Of course, some companies make basic phones, but the kind is not
    various. In addition to that, I will pay more money for next cell phone
    than previous one because DMB TV has been added on the phones. As
    camera and MP3 player was, DMB TV will not be option, and the standard
    price of cell phones will be raised in the near future.

    Convergence is not an only key to high technology. The convergence
    devices of high quality, appropriate size, good usability, and
    reasonable price will be possible based on the improvement of the
    divergence devices. I think that manufacturers should turn their eyes
    from convergence devices to divergence devices.

    What is your opinion?




    See More: I'm sick of convergence phones




  2. #2
    Andy Ball
    Guest

    Re: I'm sick of convergence phones


    Hello Anna,

    A> What is your opinion?

    I prefer separate devices that use standard interfaces to
    communicate as appropriate. Unfortunately mobile phone
    makers bundle in features like cameras, MP3 and video in
    part because it makes them easier to sell to mobile network
    providors, who will make money by charging customers extra
    to send pictures or to download videos and music.

    It seems remarkably difficult (at least where I live) to buy
    a decent voice phone these days.

    - Andy Ball



  3. #3
    Ace587
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    Re: I'm sick of convergence phones

    the problem with convergence is the more functions the phone has, the lesser the battery life, its a major turn off for me



  4. #4
    Anna
    Guest

    Re: I'm sick of convergence phones


    We Are Devo! 작성:

    > On 21/07/2006 at 08:47:46 Anna wrote :
    > > Users can have a simpler, higher quality and smaller phones if
    > > manufacturers are willing to make them.

    >
    > Nokia 1100 ;-)
    > http://www.nokiausa.com/phones/1100
    >
    > --


    Thank you for your information.
    Yes. Many people want such a simple phone, but unfortunately, kind and
    design are not various like convergence phones. Why manufacturers do
    not make various basic phones? Well, it is definitely related to
    marketing strategy not customers' needs.




  5. #5
    Anna
    Guest

    Re: I'm sick of convergence phones


    Andy Ball 작성:

    > Hello Anna,
    >
    > A> What is your opinion?
    >
    > I prefer separate devices that use standard interfaces to
    > communicate as appropriate. Unfortunately mobile phone
    > makers bundle in features like cameras, MP3 and video in
    > part because it makes them easier to sell to mobile network
    > providors, who will make money by charging customers extra
    > to send pictures or to download videos and music.


    You're right. The reason is to make more money 'for 'providers.'
    In addition to that, I think that user interface standard is also
    depends on mobile network providers, though user interface should be
    designed based on the users' side not providers' side. It makes the
    usability of convergence phones poor.




  6. #6
    Osiris
    Guest

    Re: I'm sick of convergence phones

    On 21 Jul 2006 19:51:01 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >We Are Devo! ??:
    >
    >> On 21/07/2006 at 08:47:46 Anna wrote :
    >> > Users can have a simpler, higher quality and smaller phones if
    >> > manufacturers are willing to make them.

    >>
    >> Nokia 1100 ;-)
    >> http://www.nokiausa.com/phones/1100
    >>
    >> --

    >
    > Thank you for your information.
    > Yes. Many people want such a simple phone, but unfortunately, kind and
    >design are not various like convergence phones. Why manufacturers do
    >not make various basic phones? Well, it is definitely related to
    >marketing strategy not customers' needs.


    Well, "market" is a complicated mechanism. Many many books have been
    written about it, and the most enlightening ones have not, in my
    opinion, come from economists, but from philosophy.
    Energy for this mechanism comes from both customer AND producer.
    A designer is not ONLY a designer, but also a customer him/herself.

    A very well known problem with designers is, that they design for
    affluent males, 30yrs old, 77 kg, 1.85 m high , married, 2.3 children
    etc.

    That guy does not exist.
    He is an average model, representing the whole market.

    Look at cellphones these days and imagine you are 80 yrs old, have old
    and not-so-mobile fingers etc.
    I found one for my father of 89 yrs old. Bright yellow, so he can
    easily find it, big buttons, wide casing to hold comfortably, no
    camera, no special ringtoning, simple address book in it for 50 names.
    When I think of it RATIONALLY, it is really a perfect phone for a lot
    of people, young and old. But people are not only rational in that
    sense.
    We are also emotional, we want "image", status etc.
    That is something designers have understood well too.
    And "the newest phone on the block" does give status and builds your
    image among aquaintances. You tel me why...

    So, users are not only users. We are members of a society too, needing
    status, image. You choose how much and what kind...

    and remember, this cellphone stuff is very new. Dust has still to
    settle, we do not know what really will shape the market.
    Look at PDA: the small keyboards are prohibiting. I myself had one and
    don't use it anymore. A paper agenda is much quicker, safer, no backup
    trouble etc.
    Will PDA conquer the market ? I don't think so. Few people NEED all
    that info ON them.






  7. #7
    Anna
    Guest

    Re: I'm sick of convergence phones

    Osiris 작성:

    > On 21 Jul 2006 19:51:01 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > We are also emotional, we want "image", status etc.
    > That is something designers have understood well too.
    > And "the newest phone on the block" does give status and builds your
    > image among aquaintances. You tel me why...
    >
    > So, users are not only users. We are members of a society too, needing
    > status, image. You choose how much and what kind...


    Good point: we are members of a society and need status, image...But,
    can we represent our own uique (at least, individual characteristic)
    "image" with present phones? I don't think so. Too uniform phones:
    maybe, physical appearances seem to be various and splendor, and many
    different functions are available.. but, so uniform and typical whole
    package of "high-tech" convergence. Whenever I buy cellphones, I feel
    like to buy over-priced food set, even though I know that I can't
    finish half of it.

    A society consists of many different groups, and marketing target user
    groups are various; only in a textbook? Am I too philosophical? Well,
    as you said, market is a complex mechanism, but I think that current
    cellphone market follows so simple rule - all functions should come
    together only because present technology can do it.

    > and remember, this cellphone stuff is very new. Dust has still to
    > settle, we do not know what really will shape the market.
    > Look at PDA: the small keyboards are prohibiting. I myself had one and
    > don't use it anymore. A paper agenda is much quicker, safer, no backup
    > trouble etc.
    > Will PDA conquer the market ? I don't think so. Few people NEED all
    > that info ON them.


    I agree with you. However, I am not sure whether trend of convergence
    cellphone will wane, even if many people would want simple phones. Most
    people need phone call while not most people need personal
    management/scheduling. That is different point between cellphone and
    PDA, I think. Even though people don't need all those functions on
    convergence phones, they should buy those phones as long as
    manufacturers push those many functions into a cellphone.




  8. #8
    Osiris
    Guest

    Re: I'm sick of convergence phones

    On 22 Jul 2006 05:29:30 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Osiris ??:
    >
    >> On 21 Jul 2006 19:51:01 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> We are also emotional, we want "image", status etc.
    >> That is something designers have understood well too.
    >> And "the newest phone on the block" does give status and builds your
    >> image among aquaintances. You tel me why...
    >>
    >> So, users are not only users. We are members of a society too, needing
    >> status, image. You choose how much and what kind...

    >
    > Good point: we are members of a society and need status, image...But,
    >can we represent our own uique (at least, individual characteristic)
    >"image" with present phones? I don't think so.


    partly only, I hope. There are so much more facets to our unique
    personality...
    But hey, not everyone is in a position to express him/herself
    completely...
    We onthe northern hemisphere are privileged in that respect...

    >Too uniform phones:
    >maybe, physical appearances seem to be various and splendor, and many
    >different functions are available.. but, so uniform and typical whole
    >package of "high-tech" convergence. Whenever I buy cellphones, I feel
    >like to buy over-priced food set, even though I know that I can't
    >finish half of it.


    True: I don't know every nook and cranny of my not so state of the art
    phone... and I am a software developer/ mechanical engineer...

    >
    > A society consists of many different groups, and marketing target user
    >groups are various; only in a textbook? Am I too philosophical? Well,
    >as you said, market is a complex mechanism, but I think that current
    >cellphone market follows so simple rule - all functions should come
    >together only because present technology can do it.


    Yep: it's included because we can include it. See it as a marketing
    test... What will be used, will stay... remember: young techniques.


    >
    >> and remember, this cellphone stuff is very new. Dust has still to
    >> settle, we do not know what really will shape the market.
    >> Look at PDA: the small keyboards are prohibiting. I myself had one and
    >> don't use it anymore. A paper agenda is much quicker, safer, no backup
    >> trouble etc.
    >> Will PDA conquer the market ? I don't think so. Few people NEED all
    >> that info ON them.

    >
    > I agree with you. However, I am not sure whether trend of convergence
    >cellphone will wane, even if many people would want simple phones. Most
    >people need phone call while not most people need personal
    >management/scheduling. That is different point between cellphone and
    >PDA, I think. Even though people don't need all those functions on
    >convergence phones, they should buy those phones as long as
    >manufacturers push those many functions into a cellphone.





  9. #9
    Osiris
    Guest

    Re: I'm sick of convergence phones

    On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:19:22 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Osiris <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >> I found one for my father of 89 yrs old. Bright yellow, so he can
    >> easily find it, big buttons, wide casing to hold comfortably, no
    >> camera, no special ringtoning, simple address book in it for 50 names.

    >
    >Which phone?


    I dunno... could ask my father, but not now. it is a yellow phone,
    with the buttons covered with a cover you slide OFF the phone. It
    really completely separates from the phone, like some calculators
    have. No accidentally call someone while you have it in your pocket.
    Dutch KPN had it maybe 2 yrs back... So it will be "obsolete" now..



  10. #10
    Osiris
    Guest

    Re: I'm sick of convergence phones

    On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:19:22 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Osiris <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >> I found one for my father of 89 yrs old. Bright yellow, so he can
    >> easily find it, big buttons, wide casing to hold comfortably, no
    >> camera, no special ringtoning, simple address book in it for 50 names.

    >
    >Which phone?


    Ah, I found a picture on the net, it is as Swing 200 from dutch KPN.
    If you go to www.marktplaats.nl and search with "swing 200", you will
    find it.



  11. #11
    Anna
    Guest

    Re: I'm sick of convergence phones


    Osiris 작성:

    > On 22 Jul 2006 05:29:30 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Good point: we are members of a society and need status, image...But,
    > >can we represent our own uique (at least, individual characteristic)
    > >"image" with present phones? I don't think so.

    >
    > partly only, I hope. There are so much more facets to our unique
    > personality...
    > But hey, not everyone is in a position to express him/herself
    > completely...
    > We onthe northern hemisphere are privileged in that respect...


    Yes, nobody can express him/herself completely. I know that we can
    choose and show just part of our images with devices, but I think that
    the part is so limited with recent phones.

    > > A society consists of many different groups, and marketing target user
    > >groups are various; only in a textbook? Am I too philosophical? Well,
    > >as you said, market is a complex mechanism, but I think that current
    > >cellphone market follows so simple rule - all functions should come
    > >together only because present technology can do it.

    >
    > Yep: it's included because we can include it. See it as a marketing
    > test... What will be used, will stay... remember: young techniques.


    How long do you expect this marketing test will be continued?
    To me, as a person who has interest in user interface and usability
    problems, the test period seems to be longer than I expected and
    wanted. Well, I don't know well about the marketing, but the test
    period much depends on the marketing and technical strategy than
    customers' tastes, as I said. Surely, most devices have a marketing
    test, but I think that the test of cellphones is over-authorized to
    manufacturers now. I am a graduated student and do some projects of
    cellphone companies as an engineer, but I am a user on the other side.
    So, that' s why I said that recent cellphone products are overly leaned
    to manufacturers' technical playground and it is a time to restart the
    other technology - divergence.




  12. #12
    Osiris
    Guest

    Re: I'm sick of convergence phones

    On 22 Jul 2006 21:02:30 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >Osiris ??:
    >
    >> On 22 Jul 2006 05:29:30 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> > Good point: we are members of a society and need status, image...But,
    >> >can we represent our own uique (at least, individual characteristic)
    >> >"image" with present phones? I don't think so.

    >>
    >> partly only, I hope. There are so much more facets to our unique
    >> personality...
    >> But hey, not everyone is in a position to express him/herself
    >> completely...
    >> We onthe northern hemisphere are privileged in that respect...

    >
    > Yes, nobody can express him/herself completely. I know that we can
    >choose and show just part of our images with devices, but I think that
    >the part is so limited with recent phones.


    Of course. But we do not only use phones... there is fashion in
    clothing, cars, even houses: we want to live in a "nice enough"
    neighborhood, consistent with oour job/salary.
    "keeping up with the joneses", they say in the UK.
    Everybody can find aspects of this attitude in her life...

    >
    >> > A society consists of many different groups, and marketing target user
    >> >groups are various; only in a textbook? Am I too philosophical? Well,
    >> >as you said, market is a complex mechanism, but I think that current
    >> >cellphone market follows so simple rule - all functions should come
    >> >together only because present technology can do it.

    >>
    >> Yep: it's included because we can include it. See it as a marketing
    >> test... What will be used, will stay... remember: young techniques.

    >
    > How long do you expect this marketing test will be continued?


    It will never stop. Each time a new technique or idea is born, it
    starts over from the beginning.
    Look ar cars: more than 100 yrs old, but every year something new is
    hyping.
    the knife: 10's of thousands of years old, but they advertise new
    knives on TellSell (tv) as if the knife was just invented.

    > To me, as a person who has interest in user interface and usability
    >problems, the test period seems to be longer than I expected and
    >wanted. Well, I don't know well about the marketing, but the test
    >period much depends on the marketing and technical strategy than
    >customers' tastes, as I said. Surely, most devices have a marketing
    >test, but I think that the test of cellphones is over-authorized to
    >manufacturers now.


    You could criticize that, but that does not make it go away: you can
    be an atheist, but that won't make god go away ;-)
    I think manufacturers produce silly things, but in the end, the power
    is in the user: if her verdict is "no", the manufacturer will stop.
    But a user is not just a rational, cognitive user in the narrow sense.
    She is also emotional, and a member of a society in which all KINDS of
    rationalism have a place and in which cognitivism may even NOT have a
    prominent place.

    Watch out as an engineer:
    1: logical positivism (google it !) is DEAD.
    2; Mathematical thinking is NARROW !
    3: You cannot solve any problem by thinking hard enough.
    4: And logic does not always work (Aristotle already knew that).

    > I am a graduated student and do some projects of
    >cellphone companies as an engineer, but I am a user on the other side.


    Then you are in the unique position to interview those
    engineers/marketeers etc.
    I envy you.

    >So, that' s why I said that recent cellphone products are overly leaned
    >to manufacturers' technical playground and it is a time to restart the
    >other technology - divergence.

    I would not know when "the time" is...
    Sexy phones are VERY seductive...

    I think someday, the market will settle... companies will be taken
    over, or go bankrupt. technology will become mature. Standardisation
    will set in.
    And a new invention will be done and things will start over...

    I wonder, now that phones have such a prominent place as a vehicle for
    "expressing ones personality", if other products have lost their place
    ? Do people have less interest in clothing fashion, cars, make-up ?



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