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  1. #61
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:10:04 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <[email protected]> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >I know that back home, the hospital near our house banned two-way pagers.
    >They care about the transmission of radio waves, apparently, but not the
    >reception of the RF on the paging frequencies.


    And, apparently, not the transmission of signal from the one-way
    pager's local oscillator.



    See More: cell phone use in hospitals




  2. #62
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:18:05 -0500, Mark Allread
    <[email protected]> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:36:19 GMT, Lawrence G. Mayka
    ><[email protected]> wrote:


    >> The only evidence at all I've seen of interference with sensitive
    >> equipment
    >> (e.g., avionics) was:


    >> 1) Within twelve inches of the equipment


    >> 2) single-frequency technology (analog/TDMA/GSM) instead of
    >> spread-spectrum
    >> (CDMA)


    >Have you ever been in an "all occupants killed" plane crash? Shall
    >we take that as evidence that they don't happen?


    No, but we shouldn't take it as evidence that it DID happen.



  3. #63
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:39:11 -0800, "Peter Pan"
    <[email protected]> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >"Lawrence G. Mayka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...


    >> More importantly, though, any such interference argument is (a) hypothetical
    >> unless evidence is presented, and (b) not applicable to CDMA (spread
    >> spectrum), which is a military-class technology designed to be practically
    >> indetectible to any equipment not specifically designed to detect it.


    >Sorry Lawrence, you are totally off your rocker on this one. Whenever my
    >friend came over with his cell phone I knew he was there before he came to
    >the door cause the radio and TV would start getting interference every few
    >minutes from his cell phone checking in


    Which would make the phone TDMA, which is what Lawrence said.



  4. #64
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:36:03 GMT, "John Eckart" <[email protected]>
    posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >Doesn't CDMA use spread-spectrum technology which transmits on more than one frequency at a time? So would that, in itself, cause more interference?


    No, it would cause less to some devices and the same amount to the
    rest.

    >Just because you can *hear* TDMA better over a speaker than CDMA doesn't necessarily mean that it causes *more* interference. The two modes are still radiating energy which are capable of causing interference to electronic equipment.


    The sensitivity of devices to interference depends on peak power, not
    average power, making TDMA much more capable of interfering.

    >One possible reason why some hospitals allow cell phones while others don't could be because some hospitals could be using older equipment which may be more susceptible to RFI while other hospitals with newer equipment can handle it better due to its bet

    ter electronics, design and shielding.

    Hospitals don't test their equipment for susceptibility to
    interference to cell phones, so they wouldn't know.



  5. #65
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:35:26 GMT, "Real Estate Agent"
    <[email protected]> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >Like another contributor to these forums, I see a lot of communication
    >devices carried by hospital employees. However, they appear to be VHF
    >commercial walkie-talkie units.


    The nearby university hospital uses ordinary cellular phones for the
    staff, with repeater throughout the building, which is quite large.

    >And, as someone pointed out, shielding makes it a moot point in many areas
    >of a medical facility. I volunter as a driver for the American Cancer
    >Society, and frequently am at the radiation department. Signals are dismal.


    Because the radiation areas are heavily shielded. I've used two-way
    radios in hospitals (operating in the same 800 MHz band as cellular
    phones) with very little problem.



  6. #66
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:59:22 GMT, Mark Kim <[email protected]>
    posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >bit unreligious IMO. Entering a hospital, you usually supposed to turn
    >the Cell Phone off since Cell Phones uses Microwave Transmissions


    Which has what to do with hospitals? Are you afraid the patients will
    be cooked?



  7. #67
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:44:42 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <[email protected]> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >In alt.cellular John Eckart <[email protected]> wrote:


    >> Anyone know of any other places where you can't use cell phones, like
    >> missile silos or something?


    >Blasting areas, where the crews typically use radio-controlled detonators.


    Even with a wired blasting cap, one bit of the wrong energy at the
    wrong time and people die. And RF can trigger a blasting cap.



  8. #68
    Thomas M. Goethe
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    "Al Klein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:29:06 -0500, "Thomas M. Goethe"
    > <[email protected]> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:
    >
    > > The thing that is so funny is getting screeched at by one hospital
    > >worker for merely having one (that was indeed turned off) as two others

    in
    > >the same area are using theirs. When I asked, I was told they were

    "special"
    > >ones that are safe. Hmm, looked just like the ones I had.

    >
    > They may be "intrinsically safe", but that has nothing to do with
    > hospitals unless anesthesia is in use, and that's a stretch.


    Nah, it was just people who were clueless. I don't think that Motorola
    makes special V60's for medical personnel, especially when it had the same
    Alltel sticker as mine :-)


    --
    Thomas M. Goethe





  9. #69
    John Eckart
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    "Al Klein" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:36:03 GMT, "John Eckart" <[email protected]>
    > posted in alt.cellular.verizon:
    >=20
    > >Doesn't CDMA use spread-spectrum technology which transmits on more =

    than one frequency at a time? So would that, in itself, cause more =
    interference?
    >=20
    > No, it would cause less to some devices and the same amount to the
    > rest.


    Why would that, exactly?

    > >Just because you can *hear* TDMA better over a speaker than CDMA =

    doesn't necessarily mean that it causes *more* interference. The two =
    modes are still radiating energy which are capable of causing =
    interference to electronic equipment.
    >=20
    > The sensitivity of devices to interference depends on peak power, not
    > average power, making TDMA much more capable of interfering.


    What is the PEP of CDMA and TDMA?

    > >One possible reason why some hospitals allow cell phones while others =

    don't could be because some hospitals could be using older equipment =
    which may be more susceptible to RFI while other hospitals with newer =
    equipment can handle it better due to its better electronics, design and =
    shielding.
    >=20
    > Hospitals don't test their equipment for susceptibility to
    > interference to cell phones, so they wouldn't know.


    I would think modern medical equipment would be tested for various forms =
    of interference, and would have to pass FCC regulations for not causing =
    interference.



  10. #70
    Rich Sakalas
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    What you think may be a cellphone might be a dedicated in - house wireless
    system. I work for a business communications systems vendor and we work
    with two different ones. They are similar to a cell phone and are
    extensions off of the company's / hospital's PBX. The two that we work with
    operate in the 1.9 GHz band.

    To reply remove "nonsense" from my email address
    "maryann" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > There was a thread here a few months ago about cell phone use in
    > hospitals, with plenty of self righteous talk about the "dangers"
    > to the patients.
    >
    > I spent all of today in John Muir Hospital waiting for the gf to come out
    > of surgery, and noticed that each and every hospital employee appears to
    > be equipped with a cell phone. Needless to say, they
    > seem to think they won't kill the patients that way.






  11. #71
    Real Estate Agent
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals


    "Al Klein" wrote:
    I've used two-way
    > radios in hospitals (operating in the same 800 MHz band as cellular
    > phones) with very little problem.


    About 15 years ago, a hospitalized ham operator asked his son to bring his
    2-meter handheld unit to the hospital so he could check with the local gang.

    He was hooked to heart monitors, and the first time he transmitted,
    everything went "flat" at the nurses' station. Suddenly, medical personal
    burst into his room with a cart full of equipment, yelling "Code Blue". They
    stopped short when they saw him sitting up in bed talking on the radio.

    Needless to say, the radio left the hospital that afternoon! :-)

    -Paul-





  12. #72
    C Roth
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:20:13 +0000, Rich Sakalas wrote:

    > What you think may be a cellphone might be a dedicated in - house wireless
    > system. I work for a business communications systems vendor and we work
    > with two different ones. They are similar to a cell phone and are
    > extensions off of the company's / hospital's PBX. The two that we work with
    > operate in the 1.9 GHz band.


    I've been told that Shands Hospital in Gainesville, Florida uses NEXTEL
    inside. They have transmitters actually in the hospital to boost the
    reception and use the PTT feature to communicate between employees.





  13. #73
    t.britt
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    my grandma is currently in the hospital under critical condition. it is also
    the hospital i work for. In this hospital cell phone usage is not limited or
    restricted. all the transporters and hospital personnel all carry nextel and
    use the PTT function in all areas. Xray, ER, etc.... Most every person you
    see walking up and down the halls have cell phones glued to their ears
    giving reports to family members...






  14. #74
    Thomas M. Goethe
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    Do they have Alltel or Verizon stickers on them and look just like
    V60's?

    Seriously, I have seen such systems, but don't understand how they could
    produce a different sort of problem than a cell phone on 1900. I am sure
    they have been specifically tested for the location which would make folks
    feel safer, but in reality, I bet they are no safer.


    --
    Thomas M. Goethe


    "Rich Sakalas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > What you think may be a cellphone might be a dedicated in - house wireless
    > system. I work for a business communications systems vendor and we work
    > with two different ones. They are similar to a cell phone and are
    > extensions off of the company's / hospital's PBX. The two that we work

    with
    > operate in the 1.9 GHz band.
    >
    > To reply remove "nonsense" from my email address
    > "maryann" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > There was a thread here a few months ago about cell phone use in
    > > hospitals, with plenty of self righteous talk about the "dangers"
    > > to the patients.
    > >
    > > I spent all of today in John Muir Hospital waiting for the gf to come

    out
    > > of surgery, and noticed that each and every hospital employee appears to
    > > be equipped with a cell phone. Needless to say, they
    > > seem to think they won't kill the patients that way.

    >
    >






  15. #75
    Isaiah Beard
    Guest

    Re: cell phone use in hospitals

    Lawrence Glasser wrote:

    > maryann wrote:
    >
    >>There was a thread here a few months ago about cell phone use in
    >>hospitals, with plenty of self righteous talk about the "dangers"
    >>to the patients.
    >>
    >>I spent all of today in John Muir Hospital waiting for the gf to come out
    >>of surgery, and noticed that each and every hospital employee appears to
    >>be equipped with a cell phone. Needless to say, they
    >>seem to think they won't kill the patients that way.

    >
    >
    > More than likely a Nextel-type system... More of a walkie-talkie
    > than a cell phone.


    Well, if true, I'd have to say the patients are more at risk from Nextel
    phones than anything else. Have you seen/hear the amount of
    interference those things put out? Put a Nextel phone near any monitor
    or set of speakers and have it place a call. I'm not sure if it's
    transmitter output, the frequency range they're using, or poor
    filtering, but Nextel phones do NOT play nice with other electronic
    equipment.

    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.




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