Goodbye, Verizon...

Well, the unthinkable has happened.

After nearly four years as a mostly-quite-satisfied Verizon Wireless customer,
I'm cancelling the service as soon as my contract ends, and porting my number
to Sprint PCS.

Background:

I live in Southern California, in the Mojave Desert. I have had
continuous dropped-call problems at the intersection of Bear Valley
Road and Hesperia Road on the Hesperia/Victorville border; ironically,
the Victor Valley Town Square shopping center is at this intersection,
and that's where the Verizon Wireless Victorville retail store is.

I kept reporting the problems for months with no resolution, to find
out later that the ticket I requested opened was closed with no
communication. (VZW policy is that tech support is supposed to call
you back if you open a ticket, and I didn't hear from them for months.
They apparently ran some tests and didn't find any problems, or at
least that's what I was told.) I have also had some problems on
Highway 18 in Apple Valley, near Navajo Road - but I never followed up
on those problems and they aren't the reason I cancelled. The primary
reason is the lack of support on the repair issue, and the time it has
taken to fix - and supposedly the problem has been fixed, but I don't
know for sure. (And never will, either.)

I live in Apple Valley, CA, in the northeast corner of town. The
terrain in my neighborhood is quite hilly, and it's also quite hilly
in the Marianas, the foothills that sit between southern Apple Valley
and the San Bernardino Mountains. Providing any kind of radio service
is tough - I've discussed doing 802.11x wireless Internet service with
people here recently, and you have to be careful where you put the
towers (although I am now partnered with a local ISP that IS doing
wireless). Providing cellular service has to be tricky too, and I'm
*just* outside Verizon coverage at my house. Sometimes I can get a
good signal, sometimes not; I often had problems receiving calls on
VZW, as well as problems with the phone not de-registering from the
network properly when I turned it off, because it couldn't FIND the
network (with the result that my callers still had to wait six rings
to go to voicemail when they should have gone direct to VM). If I forced
my VZW phone to analog, I *could* make a call without fail, except when
the analog cells were filled up, which was actually pretty often.

Now, if I was to estimate about 1,000 people living in the immediate
area, I think I'd be guessing high. And you can look north from my
house towards Barstow and see miles of NOTHING except maybe one house
every half-mile or so. Given that, I can't fault Verizon for not
improving coverage in the neighborhood around my house, because they'd
be spending an assload of money on an area where they may only have a
few customers. I imagine that it's unlikely that they'd recoup their
expenditures. Yet Sprint PCS, the carrier world-renowned for "only covering
big cities and the major highways," has coverage here. Good, *solid*
coverage.

Having experienced all of this, I have come up with a theory.

You see, the Victor Valley -- Victorville, Apple Valley, and a group
of about four or five other towns in the immediate area -- has a
population of, mmm, probably about a quarter million people. Maybe
300,000. But we're in the Los Angeles market. Of course, Los Angeles,
which is 90 miles away (a 1.5-hour to 2-hour drive if traffic is
light), is the second-largest city in the US, and the metro area has a
population of several million people. Given this, and given my
experiences with VZW since moving here, I have come to assume that
Victorville is the bastard child here.

I call this the Akron, Ohio syndrome. I have spoken in private email
with someone else from the Verizon newsgroup to whom I mentioned that
my VZW service was outstanding when I lived in Cleveland. Well,
Akron's about 30 miles south of Cleveland and is much smaller.
Cleveland hovers around #25 in terms of population... I forget where
Akron ranks, but you're talking about MAYBE a couple hundred thousand
people compared to 1 .25 to 1.5 million in the Cleveland metro. And
this person told me they were having significant problems in DOWNTOWN
Akron, out near the UA campus - not exactly a rural area, and not a
place where a cell user should have trouble.

And yet ANOTHER example... My sister-in-law and her husband were
stationed at Fort Campbell until recently. Now she is back in college,
but he landed a job at the base, so they still live in the area. Fort
Campbell literally straddles the KY/TN state line - part of it is in
Elizabethtown, KY and part is in Clarksville, TN. Apparently VZW
doesn't work too well out there either. And Clarksville would be
ANOTHER medium-size town close to a large population center: it's
20-30 miles from Nashville.

It's rather disappointing.

So I activated my second line with Sprint on Friday*, and they sent me
a cool silver Samsung SPH-A660 (the "VI660" is what Sprint calls it), a tri-
mode phone, for $30 plus tax, with a two-year contract and a commitment to try
PCS Vision for free for two months. (The 660 is much like the SCH-A650
model that Verizon sells, but with some really cool features like
Voice Digit Dial - which is why I got the phone - and voice menus and
traditional voice dialing that in most cases DON'T REQUIRE TRAINING
THE PHONE! Plus, of course, since it's a Sprint phone it supports PCS
Vision apps written in Java as opposed to Qualcomm's Binary Runtime
Environment for Wireless [BREW], which Verizon uses. I like that too,
for reasons that are irrelevant to this post...)

It was $45.50 out the door because they charge tax on the retail price
of the phone (in this case, $199). I didn't have to pay for next-day
shipping, though.

My VZW contract ends on August 17th, and I've been issued enough
customer-satisfaction credits by Verizon that I probably won't owe
them any money, since I dropped my plan to the $15/25 minute emergency
plan a couple weeks ago. That's one thing that has been cool recently:
Verizon has been acknowledging my problems and offering service
credits. I even got a month free a couple months ago. Quite frankly,
however, I'd rather have the service work all the time than have to
call in and whine about problems. Not that I mind free wireless
service, but it's useless if the calls don't go through.

Another issue is that I did switch down to the $15/month/25-minute
emergency plan for $15 from my $59.95 America's Choice 800 plan, but then
I was told I'd still owe the AC balance for the current month
and had to wait 30 days for the new rate to kick in. Keep in mind that
at this point, I'd be paying $59.95, not $15, for 25 minutes/month and
no nights/weekends or in-network calling. (I could have gotten the
emergency plan with 200 N/W minutes but it would have required a
contract extension.) What complete *crap.* On the hook for $60 for a
$15 plan. Bite me, VZW. I'd been relatively patient until I heard
this, but hearing it *really* pissed me off. I generally have no issues
with most of their policies, but that one has TURN THE CUSTOMER UPSIDE
DOWN AND SHAKE HIM UNTIL HIS MONEY FALLS OUT OF HIS POCKET written all
over it. Apparently, the "screw-the-customer" attitude exists somewhere
relatively high-up within VZW, wherever policies like this are cooked up...

What I'm getting with Sprint PCS that I wasn't getting with Verizon:

1. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.

2. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.

3. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.

4. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.

5. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.

6. Unlimited PCS to PCS calling, which because I have lots of family and
friends on Sprint, will save me much more than the $5/month I'm paying for it.

7. Flat-rate unlimited web browsing and download time through PCS
Vision for $15 per month (ringtones and screensavers and apps are
charged individually if purchased from Sprint, but the downloads don't
cost extra if I go to a free site and send content to my phone).
Includes a monthly download credit for content I buy from Sprint, or I
can pay $10 if I don't want the download credit.

8. Flat-rate unlimited text messaging - something I really, really
wanted to have when I used text messaging on my Verizon phones. This
will finally make it practical to receive network outage notices,
notices about my servers going down, etc., to my cell phone as I will
not have to worry about counting messages. With Vision, 100 text
messages/month are free or unlimited would be $5/month. ($5 and $10
without Vision.)

9. A Samsung 660, although okay, I'll concede that I could have gotten
almost the same phone from Verizon.

10. Slightly lower monthly access fees on PCS Free and Clear than on
Verizon's equivalent plan (America's Choice). Plus, they're running a
promotion, an Area Wide plan that covers CA and NV (just like VZW's
local plans), 1000 minutes for $45, and since I am not planning on
travelling for a while i might sign up for it and switch back to F&C
later.

11. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.

12. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.

13. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.

14. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.

15. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.

I'll still hang out in alt.cellular.verizon, but no longer as a
customer...

OBTW, General Lee in the Verizon newsgroup suggested cancelling right
away and disputing the $175 ETF on the basis that "we paid what we
would have owed and you suffered no losses." I think it could work,
but Sarah and I decided to take the safe route and just stick it out
for another five weeks or so. My Verizon number goes to voice mail
right now, as does my toll-free number which forwards to my cell
phone. I check VM several times a day and will port my VZW number to
Sprint at end-of-contract. Not the most convenient option, but
definitely the safest.

*sigh* VZW... what happened to the wonderful relationship we had? You seem
to have dropped the ball. The service was great when I lived in Ohio...

--SJS

*I've been an SPCS customer since the end of '01. My wife's phone is, and
always has been a Sprint phone.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

---

› See More: Goodbye, Verizon...

In alt.cellular Dan Albrich <[email protected]> wrote:

> The main thing that keeps me from making the change myself is a simple cost
> issue. Verizon's been providing me with free 1xRTT data via the minutes of
> use option and circuit switched data before that. I've had two palm phones
> so I can access the data from my phone or via laptop and my monthly cost
> stays the same.

Sprint's pricing structure is different. Vision usage never comes out of
your airtime, although 2G Wireless Web access used to cost 39 cents per minute.
(Actually, it was always 39c/minute instead of airtime, so WW didn't deduct
from your airtime either, IIRC.)

With Vision, it's either per KB transferred or flat-rate. I like that better,
actually. YMMV.

Like Verizon, Sprint discourages tethered laptop use. You're supposed to
pay the $70-80 per month for a separate unlimited Vision plan and an aircard.
Perhaps unlike Verizon, as some of the SPCS newsgroup regulars will tell you,
Sprint will unofficially look the other way if you don't use your $15 unlimited
Vision option too often for laptop usage.

> The family plan with two lines comes to $55 a month, and Sprint can't
> currently beat that although they do offer more extensive roaming than the
> AC plan for only $5 a month.

FCA has a limitation that you can only use 50% of your minutes in any
given month for roaming. If roaming is an issue you're *generally* better
off with Verizon unless you're only roaming occasionally.

Thanks, Dan

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Steven,

As you may well recall, it was back in November that I declared I was
leaving Verizon Wireless and switching to Sprint PCS. That, too, was
"unthinkable." I haven't looked back. Sprint's been a heck of a lot more
reliable than Verizon Wireless, and with far better customer service, than
what I was getting before the switch. I believe you will find fewer
network problems, better service, and better value (note: did not say
"better prices") when you come over to Sprint PCS.

I took the plunge, and I welcome you to the family.

Steve

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Steven J Sobol wrote:

> Well, the unthinkable has happened.
>
> After nearly four years as a mostly-quite-satisfied Verizon Wireless customer,
> I'm cancelling the service as soon as my contract ends, and porting my number
> to Sprint PCS.
>
> Background:
>
> I live in Southern California, in the Mojave Desert. I have had
> continuous dropped-call problems at the intersection of Bear Valley
> Road and Hesperia Road on the Hesperia/Victorville border; ironically,
> the Victor Valley Town Square shopping center is at this intersection,
> and that's where the Verizon Wireless Victorville retail store is.
>
> I kept reporting the problems for months with no resolution, to find
> out later that the ticket I requested opened was closed with no
> communication. (VZW policy is that tech support is supposed to call
> you back if you open a ticket, and I didn't hear from them for months.
> They apparently ran some tests and didn't find any problems, or at
> least that's what I was told.) I have also had some problems on
> Highway 18 in Apple Valley, near Navajo Road - but I never followed up
> on those problems and they aren't the reason I cancelled. The primary
> reason is the lack of support on the repair issue, and the time it has
> taken to fix - and supposedly the problem has been fixed, but I don't
> know for sure. (And never will, either.)
>
> I live in Apple Valley, CA, in the northeast corner of town. The
> terrain in my neighborhood is quite hilly, and it's also quite hilly
> in the Marianas, the foothills that sit between southern Apple Valley
> and the San Bernardino Mountains. Providing any kind of radio service
> is tough - I've discussed doing 802.11x wireless Internet service with
> people here recently, and you have to be careful where you put the
> towers (although I am now partnered with a local ISP that IS doing
> wireless). Providing cellular service has to be tricky too, and I'm
> *just* outside Verizon coverage at my house. Sometimes I can get a
> good signal, sometimes not; I often had problems receiving calls on
> VZW, as well as problems with the phone not de-registering from the
> network properly when I turned it off, because it couldn't FIND the
> network (with the result that my callers still had to wait six rings
> to go to voicemail when they should have gone direct to VM). If I forced
> my VZW phone to analog, I *could* make a call without fail, except when
> the analog cells were filled up, which was actually pretty often.
>
> Now, if I was to estimate about 1,000 people living in the immediate
> area, I think I'd be guessing high. And you can look north from my
> house towards Barstow and see miles of NOTHING except maybe one house
> every half-mile or so. Given that, I can't fault Verizon for not
> improving coverage in the neighborhood around my house, because they'd
> be spending an assload of money on an area where they may only have a
> few customers. I imagine that it's unlikely that they'd recoup their
> expenditures. Yet Sprint PCS, the carrier world-renowned for "only covering
> big cities and the major highways," has coverage here. Good, *solid*
> coverage.
>
> Having experienced all of this, I have come up with a theory.
>
> You see, the Victor Valley -- Victorville, Apple Valley, and a group
> of about four or five other towns in the immediate area -- has a
> population of, mmm, probably about a quarter million people. Maybe
> 300,000. But we're in the Los Angeles market. Of course, Los Angeles,
> which is 90 miles away (a 1.5-hour to 2-hour drive if traffic is
> light), is the second-largest city in the US, and the metro area has a
> population of several million people. Given this, and given my
> experiences with VZW since moving here, I have come to assume that
> Victorville is the bastard child here.
>
> I call this the Akron, Ohio syndrome. I have spoken in private email
> with someone else from the Verizon newsgroup to whom I mentioned that
> my VZW service was outstanding when I lived in Cleveland. Well,
> Akron's about 30 miles south of Cleveland and is much smaller.
> Cleveland hovers around #25 in terms of population... I forget where
> Akron ranks, but you're talking about MAYBE a couple hundred thousand
> people compared to 1 .25 to 1.5 million in the Cleveland metro. And
> this person told me they were having significant problems in DOWNTOWN
> Akron, out near the UA campus - not exactly a rural area, and not a
> place where a cell user should have trouble.
>
> And yet ANOTHER example... My sister-in-law and her husband were
> stationed at Fort Campbell until recently. Now she is back in college,
> but he landed a job at the base, so they still live in the area. Fort
> Campbell literally straddles the KY/TN state line - part of it is in
> Elizabethtown, KY and part is in Clarksville, TN. Apparently VZW
> doesn't work too well out there either. And Clarksville would be
> ANOTHER medium-size town close to a large population center: it's
> 20-30 miles from Nashville.
>
> It's rather disappointing.
>
> So I activated my second line with Sprint on Friday*, and they sent me
> a cool silver Samsung SPH-A660 (the "VI660" is what Sprint calls it), a tri-
> mode phone, for $30 plus tax, with a two-year contract and a commitment to try
> PCS Vision for free for two months. (The 660 is much like the SCH-A650
> model that Verizon sells, but with some really cool features like
> Voice Digit Dial - which is why I got the phone - and voice menus and
> traditional voice dialing that in most cases DON'T REQUIRE TRAINING
> THE PHONE! Plus, of course, since it's a Sprint phone it supports PCS
> Vision apps written in Java as opposed to Qualcomm's Binary Runtime
> Environment for Wireless [BREW], which Verizon uses. I like that too,
> for reasons that are irrelevant to this post...)
>
> It was $45.50 out the door because they charge tax on the retail price
> of the phone (in this case, $199). I didn't have to pay for next-day
> shipping, though.
>
> My VZW contract ends on August 17th, and I've been issued enough
> customer-satisfaction credits by Verizon that I probably won't owe
> them any money, since I dropped my plan to the $15/25 minute emergency
> plan a couple weeks ago. That's one thing that has been cool recently:
> Verizon has been acknowledging my problems and offering service
> credits. I even got a month free a couple months ago. Quite frankly,
> however, I'd rather have the service work all the time than have to
> call in and whine about problems. Not that I mind free wireless
> service, but it's useless if the calls don't go through.
>
> Another issue is that I did switch down to the $15/month/25-minute
> emergency plan for $15 from my $59.95 America's Choice 800 plan, but then
> I was told I'd still owe the AC balance for the current month
> and had to wait 30 days for the new rate to kick in. Keep in mind that
> at this point, I'd be paying $59.95, not $15, for 25 minutes/month and
> no nights/weekends or in-network calling. (I could have gotten the
> emergency plan with 200 N/W minutes but it would have required a
> contract extension.) What complete *crap.* On the hook for $60 for a
> $15 plan. Bite me, VZW. I'd been relatively patient until I heard
> this, but hearing it *really* pissed me off. I generally have no issues
> with most of their policies, but that one has TURN THE CUSTOMER UPSIDE
> DOWN AND SHAKE HIM UNTIL HIS MONEY FALLS OUT OF HIS POCKET written all
> over it. Apparently, the "screw-the-customer" attitude exists somewhere
> relatively high-up within VZW, wherever policies like this are cooked up...
>
> What I'm getting with Sprint PCS that I wasn't getting with Verizon:
>
> 1. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 2. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 3. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 4. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 5. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 6. Unlimited PCS to PCS calling, which because I have lots of family and
> friends on Sprint, will save me much more than the $5/month I'm paying for it.
>
> 7. Flat-rate unlimited web browsing and download time through PCS
> Vision for $15 per month (ringtones and screensavers and apps are
> charged individually if purchased from Sprint, but the downloads don't
> cost extra if I go to a free site and send content to my phone).
> Includes a monthly download credit for content I buy from Sprint, or I
> can pay $10 if I don't want the download credit.
>
> 8. Flat-rate unlimited text messaging - something I really, really
> wanted to have when I used text messaging on my Verizon phones. This
> will finally make it practical to receive network outage notices,
> notices about my servers going down, etc., to my cell phone as I will
> not have to worry about counting messages. With Vision, 100 text
> messages/month are free or unlimited would be $5/month. ($5 and $10
> without Vision.)
>
> 9. A Samsung 660, although okay, I'll concede that I could have gotten
> almost the same phone from Verizon.
>
> 10. Slightly lower monthly access fees on PCS Free and Clear than on
> Verizon's equivalent plan (America's Choice). Plus, they're running a
> promotion, an Area Wide plan that covers CA and NV (just like VZW's
> local plans), 1000 minutes for $45, and since I am not planning on
> travelling for a while i might sign up for it and switch back to F&C
> later.
>
> 11. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 12. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 13. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 14. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 15. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> I'll still hang out in alt.cellular.verizon, but no longer as a
> customer...
>
> OBTW, General Lee in the Verizon newsgroup suggested cancelling right
> away and disputing the $175 ETF on the basis that "we paid what we
> would have owed and you suffered no losses." I think it could work,
> but Sarah and I decided to take the safe route and just stick it out
> for another five weeks or so. My Verizon number goes to voice mail
> right now, as does my toll-free number which forwards to my cell
> phone. I check VM several times a day and will port my VZW number to
> Sprint at end-of-contract. Not the most convenient option, but
> definitely the safest.
>
> *sigh* VZW... what happened to the wonderful relationship we had? You seem
> to have dropped the ball. The service was great when I lived in Ohio...
>
> --SJS
>
> *I've been an SPCS customer since the end of '01. My wife's phone is, and
> always has been a Sprint phone.
>
>

Steven J Sobol wrote:
> Like Verizon, Sprint discourages tethered laptop use. You're supposed to
> pay the $70-80 per month for a separate unlimited Vision plan and an aircard.
> Perhaps unlike Verizon, as some of the SPCS newsgroup regulars will tell you,
> Sprint will unofficially look the other way if you don't use your $15 unlimited
> Vision option too often for laptop usage.

I recall reading somewhere that Sprint charges to do ESN swaps. Do you know
if that is the case? Do you actually use multiple phones/devices with the
same account?

Roger

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Steven J Sobol, Trying to convince himself he did
the right thing
>wrote:
>
> > Well, the unthinkable has happened.
> >
> > After nearly four years as a mostly-quite-satisfied Verizon Wireless
> > customer,
> > I'm cancelling the service as soon as my contract ends, and porting my
> > number
> > to Sprint PCS.
> >
> > Background:
> >
> > I live in Southern California, in the Mojave Desert. I have had
> > continuous dropped-call problems at the intersection of Bear Valley
> > Road and Hesperia Road on the Hesperia/Victorville border; ironically,
> > the Victor Valley Town Square shopping center is at this intersection,
> > and that's where the Verizon Wireless Victorville retail store is.
> >

> >
> > What I'm getting with Sprint PCS that I wasn't getting with Verizon:
> >
> > 1. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
> >
> > 2. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
> >
> > 3. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
> >
> > 4. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
> >
> > 5. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
> >
> > 6. Unlimited PCS to PCS calling, which because I have lots of family and
> > friends on Sprint, will save me much more than the $5/month I'm paying for
> > it.

No extra charge with some other carriers, including Verizon.


> >
> > 7. Flat-rate unlimited web browsing and download time through PCS
> > Vision for $15 per month (ringtones and screensavers and apps are
> > charged individually if purchased from Sprint, but the downloads don't
> > cost extra if I go to a free site and send content to my phone).
> > Includes a monthly download credit for content I buy from Sprint, or I
> > can pay $10 if I don't want the download credit.
> >
> > 8. Flat-rate unlimited text messaging - something I really, really
> > wanted to have when I used text messaging on my Verizon phones. This
> > will finally make it practical to receive network outage notices,
> > notices about my servers going down, etc., to my cell phone as I will
> > not have to worry about counting messages. With Vision, 100 text
> > messages/month are free or unlimited would be $5/month. ($5 and $10
> > without Vision.)

Cingular and T-Mobile now have unlimited Internet and mass quantiities
of text messages for $20/month, $15 + $5 = $20 where I come from.

> >
> > 9. A Samsung 660, although okay, I'll concede that I could have gotten
> > almost the same phone from Verizon.
> >
> > 10. Slightly lower monthly access fees on PCS Free and Clear than on
> > Verizon's equivalent plan (America's Choice). Plus, they're running a
> > promotion, an Area Wide plan that covers CA and NV (just like VZW's
> > local plans), 1000 minutes for $45, and since I am not planning on
> > travelling for a while i might sign up for it and switch back to F&C
> > later.

After 3 months SprintPCS will now require a new contract to change plans.
Did you miss that minor detail?


> >
> > 11. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
> >
> > 12. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
> >
> > 13. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
> >
> > 14. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
> >
> > 15. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.

A very good reason to change carriers, and why so many people leave
Sprint. Driving from New Orleans to Los Angeles along I-10 all the way
gives the lie to SprintPCS being a National Carrier. Hundreds of miles
at a time with Zero coverage.

> >
> > I'll still hang out in alt.cellular.verizon, but no longer as a
> > customer...
> >
> > OBTW, General Lee in the Verizon newsgroup suggested cancelling right
> > away and disputing the $175 ETF on the basis that "we paid what we
> > would have owed and you suffered no losses."

But then you're not porting and retaining your number, which SprintPCS
STILL has problems with. and often for no known reason takes days.

In article <[email protected]>,
"Roger Binns" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Steven J Sobol wrote:
> > Like Verizon, Sprint discourages tethered laptop use. You're supposed to
> > pay the $70-80 per month for a separate unlimited Vision plan and an
> > aircard.
> > Perhaps unlike Verizon, as some of the SPCS newsgroup regulars will tell
> > you,
> > Sprint will unofficially look the other way if you don't use your $15
> > unlimited
> > Vision option too often for laptop usage.
>
> I recall reading somewhere that Sprint charges to do ESN swaps. Do you know
> if that is the case? Do you actually use multiple phones/devices with the
> same account?

Apparently SprintPCS has finally stopped that customer unfriendly
practice.

That's interesting, because here on the Right Coast, around NYC in
particular, Sprint was a disaster for me, which is why I switched to
Verizon and haven't looked back. With Sprint I saw only unreliable and
spotty service, including constant dropped calls, horrific customer
service, the pricing plans depending on which CS rep you spoke to,
standing on line at stores for 45 minutes or on telephone hold for 20
minutes and then getting bad information, etc. That was 18 months ago. I
still have friends waiting only for their Sprint contracts to end to take
their numbers and run. Verizon been much more reliable, dropped calls are
very rare, customer service generally available within a minute, and it
travels well with me to upstate New York rural areas as well as various
cities around the country. Hope your experience with Sprint is better
than mine.

Anyone who knows for sure, please confirm/deny, but I did not
think that you could port a number to an existing line/number. Does not
a ported number have to be to a new line of service?


Steven J Sobol wrote:

> Well, the unthinkable has happened.
>
> After nearly four years as a mostly-quite-satisfied Verizon Wireless customer,
> I'm cancelling the service as soon as my contract ends, and porting my number
> to Sprint PCS.
>
> Background:
>
> I live in Southern California, in the Mojave Desert. I have had
> continuous dropped-call problems at the intersection of Bear Valley
> Road and Hesperia Road on the Hesperia/Victorville border; ironically,
> the Victor Valley Town Square shopping center is at this intersection,
> and that's where the Verizon Wireless Victorville retail store is.
>
> I kept reporting the problems for months with no resolution, to find
> out later that the ticket I requested opened was closed with no
> communication. (VZW policy is that tech support is supposed to call
> you back if you open a ticket, and I didn't hear from them for months.
> They apparently ran some tests and didn't find any problems, or at
> least that's what I was told.) I have also had some problems on
> Highway 18 in Apple Valley, near Navajo Road - but I never followed up
> on those problems and they aren't the reason I cancelled. The primary
> reason is the lack of support on the repair issue, and the time it has
> taken to fix - and supposedly the problem has been fixed, but I don't
> know for sure. (And never will, either.)
>
> I live in Apple Valley, CA, in the northeast corner of town. The
> terrain in my neighborhood is quite hilly, and it's also quite hilly
> in the Marianas, the foothills that sit between southern Apple Valley
> and the San Bernardino Mountains. Providing any kind of radio service
> is tough - I've discussed doing 802.11x wireless Internet service with
> people here recently, and you have to be careful where you put the
> towers (although I am now partnered with a local ISP that IS doing
> wireless). Providing cellular service has to be tricky too, and I'm
> *just* outside Verizon coverage at my house. Sometimes I can get a
> good signal, sometimes not; I often had problems receiving calls on
> VZW, as well as problems with the phone not de-registering from the
> network properly when I turned it off, because it couldn't FIND the
> network (with the result that my callers still had to wait six rings
> to go to voicemail when they should have gone direct to VM). If I forced
> my VZW phone to analog, I *could* make a call without fail, except when
> the analog cells were filled up, which was actually pretty often.
>
> Now, if I was to estimate about 1,000 people living in the immediate
> area, I think I'd be guessing high. And you can look north from my
> house towards Barstow and see miles of NOTHING except maybe one house
> every half-mile or so. Given that, I can't fault Verizon for not
> improving coverage in the neighborhood around my house, because they'd
> be spending an assload of money on an area where they may only have a
> few customers. I imagine that it's unlikely that they'd recoup their
> expenditures. Yet Sprint PCS, the carrier world-renowned for "only covering
> big cities and the major highways," has coverage here. Good, *solid*
> coverage.
>
> Having experienced all of this, I have come up with a theory.
>
> You see, the Victor Valley -- Victorville, Apple Valley, and a group
> of about four or five other towns in the immediate area -- has a
> population of, mmm, probably about a quarter million people. Maybe
> 300,000. But we're in the Los Angeles market. Of course, Los Angeles,
> which is 90 miles away (a 1.5-hour to 2-hour drive if traffic is
> light), is the second-largest city in the US, and the metro area has a
> population of several million people. Given this, and given my
> experiences with VZW since moving here, I have come to assume that
> Victorville is the bastard child here.
>
> I call this the Akron, Ohio syndrome. I have spoken in private email
> with someone else from the Verizon newsgroup to whom I mentioned that
> my VZW service was outstanding when I lived in Cleveland. Well,
> Akron's about 30 miles south of Cleveland and is much smaller.
> Cleveland hovers around #25 in terms of population... I forget where
> Akron ranks, but you're talking about MAYBE a couple hundred thousand
> people compared to 1 .25 to 1.5 million in the Cleveland metro. And
> this person told me they were having significant problems in DOWNTOWN
> Akron, out near the UA campus - not exactly a rural area, and not a
> place where a cell user should have trouble.
>
> And yet ANOTHER example... My sister-in-law and her husband were
> stationed at Fort Campbell until recently. Now she is back in college,
> but he landed a job at the base, so they still live in the area. Fort
> Campbell literally straddles the KY/TN state line - part of it is in
> Elizabethtown, KY and part is in Clarksville, TN. Apparently VZW
> doesn't work too well out there either. And Clarksville would be
> ANOTHER medium-size town close to a large population center: it's
> 20-30 miles from Nashville.
>
> It's rather disappointing.
>
> So I activated my second line with Sprint on Friday*, and they sent me
> a cool silver Samsung SPH-A660 (the "VI660" is what Sprint calls it), a tri-
> mode phone, for $30 plus tax, with a two-year contract and a commitment to try
> PCS Vision for free for two months. (The 660 is much like the SCH-A650
> model that Verizon sells, but with some really cool features like
> Voice Digit Dial - which is why I got the phone - and voice menus and
> traditional voice dialing that in most cases DON'T REQUIRE TRAINING
> THE PHONE! Plus, of course, since it's a Sprint phone it supports PCS
> Vision apps written in Java as opposed to Qualcomm's Binary Runtime
> Environment for Wireless [BREW], which Verizon uses. I like that too,
> for reasons that are irrelevant to this post...)
>
> It was $45.50 out the door because they charge tax on the retail price
> of the phone (in this case, $199). I didn't have to pay for next-day
> shipping, though.
>
> My VZW contract ends on August 17th, and I've been issued enough
> customer-satisfaction credits by Verizon that I probably won't owe
> them any money, since I dropped my plan to the $15/25 minute emergency
> plan a couple weeks ago. That's one thing that has been cool recently:
> Verizon has been acknowledging my problems and offering service
> credits. I even got a month free a couple months ago. Quite frankly,
> however, I'd rather have the service work all the time than have to
> call in and whine about problems. Not that I mind free wireless
> service, but it's useless if the calls don't go through.
>
> Another issue is that I did switch down to the $15/month/25-minute
> emergency plan for $15 from my $59.95 America's Choice 800 plan, but then
> I was told I'd still owe the AC balance for the current month
> and had to wait 30 days for the new rate to kick in. Keep in mind that
> at this point, I'd be paying $59.95, not $15, for 25 minutes/month and
> no nights/weekends or in-network calling. (I could have gotten the
> emergency plan with 200 N/W minutes but it would have required a
> contract extension.) What complete *crap.* On the hook for $60 for a
> $15 plan. Bite me, VZW. I'd been relatively patient until I heard
> this, but hearing it *really* pissed me off. I generally have no issues
> with most of their policies, but that one has TURN THE CUSTOMER UPSIDE
> DOWN AND SHAKE HIM UNTIL HIS MONEY FALLS OUT OF HIS POCKET written all
> over it. Apparently, the "screw-the-customer" attitude exists somewhere
> relatively high-up within VZW, wherever policies like this are cooked up...
>
> What I'm getting with Sprint PCS that I wasn't getting with Verizon:
>
> 1. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 2. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 3. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 4. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 5. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 6. Unlimited PCS to PCS calling, which because I have lots of family and
> friends on Sprint, will save me much more than the $5/month I'm paying for it.
>
> 7. Flat-rate unlimited web browsing and download time through PCS
> Vision for $15 per month (ringtones and screensavers and apps are
> charged individually if purchased from Sprint, but the downloads don't
> cost extra if I go to a free site and send content to my phone).
> Includes a monthly download credit for content I buy from Sprint, or I
> can pay $10 if I don't want the download credit.
>
> 8. Flat-rate unlimited text messaging - something I really, really
> wanted to have when I used text messaging on my Verizon phones. This
> will finally make it practical to receive network outage notices,
> notices about my servers going down, etc., to my cell phone as I will
> not have to worry about counting messages. With Vision, 100 text
> messages/month are free or unlimited would be $5/month. ($5 and $10
> without Vision.)
>
> 9. A Samsung 660, although okay, I'll concede that I could have gotten
> almost the same phone from Verizon.
>
> 10. Slightly lower monthly access fees on PCS Free and Clear than on
> Verizon's equivalent plan (America's Choice). Plus, they're running a
> promotion, an Area Wide plan that covers CA and NV (just like VZW's
> local plans), 1000 minutes for $45, and since I am not planning on
> travelling for a while i might sign up for it and switch back to F&C
> later.
>
> 11. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 12. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 13. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 14. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 15. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> I'll still hang out in alt.cellular.verizon, but no longer as a
> customer...
>
> OBTW, General Lee in the Verizon newsgroup suggested cancelling right
> away and disputing the $175 ETF on the basis that "we paid what we
> would have owed and you suffered no losses." I think it could work,
> but Sarah and I decided to take the safe route and just stick it out
> for another five weeks or so. My Verizon number goes to voice mail
> right now, as does my toll-free number which forwards to my cell
> phone. I check VM several times a day and will port my VZW number to
> Sprint at end-of-contract. Not the most convenient option, but
> definitely the safest.
>
> *sigh* VZW... what happened to the wonderful relationship we had? You seem
> to have dropped the ball. The service was great when I lived in Ohio...
>
> --SJS
>
> *I've been an SPCS customer since the end of '01. My wife's phone is, and
> always has been a Sprint phone.
>

In article <[email protected]>,
Jerome Zelinske <[email protected]> wrote:

> Anyone who knows for sure, please confirm/deny, but I did not
> think that you could port a number to an existing line/number. Does not
> a ported number have to be to a new line of service?

Nope, you just change numbers.

"Roger Binns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Steven J Sobol wrote:
> > Like Verizon, Sprint discourages tethered laptop use. You're supposed to
> > pay the $70-80 per month for a separate unlimited Vision plan and an
aircard.
> > Perhaps unlike Verizon, as some of the SPCS newsgroup regulars will tell
you,
> > Sprint will unofficially look the other way if you don't use your $15
unlimited
> > Vision option too often for laptop usage.
>
> I recall reading somewhere that Sprint charges to do ESN swaps. Do you
know
> if that is the case? Do you actually use multiple phones/devices with the
> same account?
>
> Roger

They stopped charging for ESN changes at least a year ago, and maybe up to
18 months ago.

Bob

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 11:52:16 +0000 (UTC), Mitchell Regenbogen
<[email protected]> wrote:

>That's interesting, because here on the Right Coast, around NYC in
>particular, Sprint was a disaster for me, which is why I switched to
>Verizon and haven't looked back. With Sprint I saw only unreliable and
>spotty service, including constant dropped calls, horrific customer
>service, the pricing plans depending on which CS rep you spoke to,
>standing on line at stores for 45 minutes or on telephone hold for 20
>minutes and then getting bad information, etc. That was 18 months ago. I
>still have friends waiting only for their Sprint contracts to end to take
>their numbers and run. Verizon been much more reliable, dropped calls are
>very rare, customer service generally available within a minute, and it
>travels well with me to upstate New York rural areas as well as various
>cities around the country. Hope your experience with Sprint is better
>than mine.

I think that's going to be something you'll see more on the"right
coast" than left. Once you leave NYC, you can be "nowhere" within a
couple of hours, especially since drives often take you off parkways
and interstates.

I've heard a lot of people in NYC and surrounding area complain about
Sprint too. If I had to guess, I'd say T-Mobile, which is one of the
carriers that's done pretty well at gaining customers who left after
WNP went into effect, gained a lot of customers from Sprint.

"Robert M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Steven J Sobol, Trying to convince himself he did
> the right thing
> >wrote:

So Phillipe, why the need to post under two separate IDs in this thread?

Bob

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 22:10:09 -0500, Steven J Sobol
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I call this the Akron, Ohio syndrome. I have spoken in private email
>with someone else from the Verizon newsgroup to whom I mentioned that
>my VZW service was outstanding when I lived in Cleveland. Well,
>Akron's about 30 miles south of Cleveland and is much smaller.
>Cleveland hovers around #25 in terms of population... I forget where
>Akron ranks, but you're talking about MAYBE a couple hundred thousand
>people compared to 1 .25 to 1.5 million in the Cleveland metro. And
>this person told me they were having significant problems in DOWNTOWN
>Akron, out near the UA campus - not exactly a rural area, and not a
>place where a cell user should have trouble.

You knew I'd pipe up on this one, Steve.

I've used my VZW phone (actually, two of them) extensively in the
greater Akron area, and have yet to run into such problems. I don't
recall using the phone near the UA campus, but not terribly far from
there at the Akron main post office (Wolf Ledges/Grant area, about a
mile or so south of the campus), I've used it frequently and it has
been fine. Of course, that's about a block north of I-76/I-77, so
maybe that's a plus...maybe the towers are closer to the highway.

Best of luck to you on your "switch". I've never seriously considered
Sprint, and am not sure if it's something I'd ever do. I have been
thrilled with VZW's service since day one, and I travel way too much
to really consider any other carrier, coverage-wise. I know Sprint
has the "FCA" thing, but there are months I'd come dangerously close
to stomping on the 50% thing!

I can certainly understand what you're doing, and your frustration,
based on what you've talked about it. It doesn't really seem like VZW
gives a crap about that area you're in.

Mike

Steven J Sobol wrote (in part):

> So I activated my second line with Sprint on Friday*, and they sent me
> a cool silver Samsung SPH-A660 (the "VI660" is what Sprint calls it),
> a tri-mode phone, for $30 plus tax, with a two-year contract and a
> commitment to try PCS Vision for free for two months.

[snip]

> It was $45.50 out the door because they charge tax on the retail price
> of the phone (in this case, $199). I didn't have to pay for next-day
> shipping, though.

Recently, when I activated a second line and purchased a new phone
(Sanyo RL-7300), I was charged tax only on the price *after* the $150
instant rebate. (Regular price $279.99; selling price $129.99 + 5% sales
tax $6.50 = $136.49 paid.) However, this was *in store* (Boston, MA
area). It seems unfair that they figure it differently for online sales,
but that's a reason to buy from a Sprint PCS store instead. Although,
note that they would not allow me to charge this to my bill; the phone
(and only the phone) had to be paid for up front.

--
[Newsgroup distribution changed to just alt.cellular.sprintpcs]

In alt.cellular Roger Binns <[email protected]> wrote:
> Steven J Sobol wrote:
>> Like Verizon, Sprint discourages tethered laptop use. You're supposed to
>> pay the $70-80 per month for a separate unlimited Vision plan and an aircard.
>> Perhaps unlike Verizon, as some of the SPCS newsgroup regulars will tell you,
>> Sprint will unofficially look the other way if you don't use your $15 unlimited
>> Vision option too often for laptop usage.
>
> I recall reading somewhere that Sprint charges to do ESN swaps. Do you know
> if that is the case? Do you actually use multiple phones/devices with the
> same account?

Probably is, but I don't know for sure, and no, I don't use multiple devices
with the same account (and didn't with Verizon either).

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.