Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Kalico
    Guest
    A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his
    Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send.

    It's bad enough for the Police to be involved and it would be helpful
    to know if the network keep details of the texts.

    My first thoughts are that they are unlikely to keep the content of
    the texts but might keep a record of the fact that a text was sent
    from a certain phone at a certain time. Is that correct? Also, would
    there be a record of which number any message was sent to?

    TIA for any advice.
    Rob




    See More: What records do networks keep on texts?




  2. #2
    Kalico
    Guest

    Re: What records do networks keep on texts?

    On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:12:56 +0000, Brian Morrison
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    [snip]
    >
    >I think you will find that VM will have complete records of every and
    >all texts sent from that number. There have been plenty of cases where
    >police have been provided with detailed information held by network
    >operators on all aspects of usage including records showing the phone
    >status, location updates, camped-on cell etc etc.
    >
    >Is your friend certain that his phone has not been in someone else's
    >possession, or left where someone else could use it? If it turns out
    >that the records show it was his SIM card and IMEI that originated these
    >texts then he will need to be able to demonstrate that someone else
    >actually sent them.


    Thanks for that. It would be great if they kept all the details. Not
    sure how long they might keep them for though. Do you have any idea?

    It seems unlikely they will keep the content of the message (that
    would be ideal if they did), but at least if we can ask the Police to
    get 'envelope' details then that would be something.

    At the moment, he has a situation were someone has made an allegation
    to the Police and the only evidence is that they walked into the
    Police station and 'showed' the counter officer the text on their
    mobile. The office duly noted that there appeared to be a text from
    my friend and wrote down what it said.

    However, my understanding is that you can make a handset show pretty
    much whatever you want it to do and certainly appear to receive a text
    message from someone else.

    The solicitors involved are also troubled by the fact that the desk
    officer then handed the phone back to the complainant, when they
    really ought to have kept the handset as evidence and had it sent to
    some expert to determine what was really on it.

    Naturally, the records that Virgin might keep will carry much more
    weight, particularly if it can be proved that a text was or was not
    sent at a particular time.

    Cheers.




  3. #3
    john
    Guest

    Re: What records do networks keep on texts?


    "Kalico" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his
    > Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send.
    >
    > It's bad enough for the Police to be involved and it would be helpful
    > to know if the network keep details of the texts.
    >
    > My first thoughts are that they are unlikely to keep the content of
    > the texts but might keep a record of the fact that a text was sent
    > from a certain phone at a certain time. Is that correct? Also, would
    > there be a record of which number any message was sent to?
    >
    > TIA for any advice.
    > Rob
    >

    The network keeps records for about 5 years of ALL text messages (full
    content of each by the way), ALL calls to and from a phone and which IMEI
    numbers are matched to which mobile numbers - it is all cross referenced so
    stolen mobiles are easy to spot. Companies refuse to take action as it
    means loss of revenue. Your friend would have had his mobile taken by
    police and sent to one of the authorised companies so it could also be
    inspected.
    Information like this is NOT disclosed to or available to people working for
    the company or they might misuse it. It IS available to police during a
    criminal investigation after they obtain a Production Order and serve it on
    the mobile company. They will supply the info requested without a problem,
    seen it loads of times. They even supply data stating which cell was used
    at each end of the call and the areas. So it is quite comprehensive.
    If your mate has done something wrong they will find out, if not then the
    other person should be prosecuted. The police would only have approached
    your friend if they already had evidence, so it's not looking good!
    If there was no evidence then he wouldn't have even heard from the police.
    The only exception is when someone of the rank of Chief Constable makes a
    request, no production order is required, but there must be a good reason
    such as life or death.







  4. #4
    Ian Stirling
    Guest

    Re: What records do networks keep on texts?

    Kalico <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:12:56 +0000, Brian Morrison
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > [snip]
    >>
    >>I think you will find that VM will have complete records of every and
    >>all texts sent from that number. There have been plenty of cases where
    >>police have been provided with detailed information held by network

    <snip>
    > It seems unlikely they will keep the content of the message (that
    > would be ideal if they did), but at least if we can ask the Police to
    > get 'envelope' details then that would be something.


    The volume of text messages is not huge.
    Sat 20m texting phones in the UK, 1000 texts/year.
    20 billion a year*160 bytes is only 20 hard disks a year.





  5. #5
    Kalico
    Guest

    Re: What records do networks keep on texts?

    On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:03:47 GMT, "john" <[email protected]> wrote:

    [snip]
    >The network keeps records for about 5 years of ALL text messages (full
    >content of each by the way), ALL calls to and from a phone and which IMEI
    >numbers are matched to which mobile numbers - it is all cross referenced so
    >stolen mobiles are easy to spot. Companies refuse to take action as it
    >means loss of revenue. Your friend would have had his mobile taken by
    >police and sent to one of the authorised companies so it could also be
    >inspected.
    >Information like this is NOT disclosed to or available to people working for
    >the company or they might misuse it. It IS available to police during a
    >criminal investigation after they obtain a Production Order and serve it on
    >the mobile company. They will supply the info requested without a problem,
    >seen it loads of times. They even supply data stating which cell was used
    >at each end of the call and the areas. So it is quite comprehensive.
    >If your mate has done something wrong they will find out, if not then the
    >other person should be prosecuted. The police would only have approached
    >your friend if they already had evidence, so it's not looking good!
    >If there was no evidence then he wouldn't have even heard from the police.
    >The only exception is when someone of the rank of Chief Constable makes a
    >request, no production order is required, but there must be a good reason
    >such as life or death.
    >

    This is excellent information John and very comprehensive. I think it
    will be just what he wants to hear so thanks very much for your help.

    Rob




  6. #6

    Re: What records do networks keep on texts?

    On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:20:53 +0000, Kalico <[email protected]> wrote:

    >At the moment, he has a situation were someone has made an allegation
    >to the Police and the only evidence is that they walked into the
    >Police station and 'showed' the counter officer the text on their
    >mobile. The office duly noted that there appeared to be a text from
    >my friend and wrote down what it said.


    That can be faked. The network's records can't, though.

    --

    Iain
    the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
    http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
    Browse now while stocks last!



  7. #7
    Taylor
    Guest

    Re: What records do networks keep on texts?

    "Kalico" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Thanks for that. It would be great if they kept all the details. Not
    > sure how long they might keep them for though. Do you have any idea?
    >
    > It seems unlikely they will keep the content of the message (that
    > would be ideal if they did), but at least if we can ask the Police to
    > get 'envelope' details then that would be something.
    >
    > At the moment, he has a situation were someone has made an allegation
    > to the Police and the only evidence is that they walked into the
    > Police station and 'showed' the counter officer the text on their
    > mobile. The office duly noted that there appeared to be a text from
    > my friend and wrote down what it said.
    >
    > However, my understanding is that you can make a handset show pretty
    > much whatever you want it to do and certainly appear to receive a text
    > message from someone else.


    ....but the originating network, ie: your friend's mobile and sim card, will
    be logged by both networks involved.

    They *do* keep records of text-bodies, they're only 160 characters, that's
    nothing, even with the thousands sent, the systems the mobile phone
    companies use can store these no bother. So, if he sent something, it *will*
    be logged.





  8. #8
    Marcus Fox
    Guest

    Re: What records do networks keep on texts?


    "Kalico" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his
    > Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send.
    >
    > It's bad enough for the Police to be involved and it would be helpful
    > to know if the network keep details of the texts.
    >
    > My first thoughts are that they are unlikely to keep the content of
    > the texts but might keep a record of the fact that a text was sent
    > from a certain phone at a certain time. Is that correct? Also, would
    > there be a record of which number any message was sent to?
    >
    > TIA for any advice.
    > Rob


    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/03/text_punk/

    Marcus





  9. #9
    David Hearn
    Guest

    Re: What records do networks keep on texts?

    john wrote:
    > "Kalico" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his
    >>Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send.
    >>
    >>It's bad enough for the Police to be involved and it would be helpful
    >>to know if the network keep details of the texts.
    >>
    >>My first thoughts are that they are unlikely to keep the content of
    >>the texts but might keep a record of the fact that a text was sent
    >>from a certain phone at a certain time. Is that correct? Also, would
    >>there be a record of which number any message was sent to?
    >>
    >>TIA for any advice.
    >>Rob
    >>

    >
    > The network keeps records for about 5 years of ALL text messages (full
    > content of each by the way), ALL calls to and from a phone and which IMEI
    > numbers are matched to which mobile numbers - it is all cross referenced so
    > stolen mobiles are easy to spot. Companies refuse to take action as it
    > means loss of revenue. Your friend would have had his mobile taken by
    > police and sent to one of the authorised companies so it could also be
    > inspected.
    > Information like this is NOT disclosed to or available to people working for
    > the company or they might misuse it.


    Someone working for a network operator CAN view text messages being sent.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/11...ighlighted_by/

    "Nourse obtained proof of his girlfriends' infidelity by persuading two
    friends, employees at O2, to intercept her text messages and pass them
    on to him."

    D



  10. #10
    Kalico
    Guest

    Re: What records do networks keep on texts?

    On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 03:52:22 GMT, "Marcus Fox"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Kalico" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his
    >> Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send.
    >>
    >> It's bad enough for the Police to be involved and it would be helpful
    >> to know if the network keep details of the texts.
    >>
    >> My first thoughts are that they are unlikely to keep the content of
    >> the texts but might keep a record of the fact that a text was sent
    >> from a certain phone at a certain time. Is that correct? Also, would
    >> there be a record of which number any message was sent to?
    >>
    >> TIA for any advice.
    >> Rob

    >
    >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/03/text_punk/
    >
    >Marcus
    >

    It's a scary world we live in - and I don't mean because of the
    terrorists.

    Do you think I will now have the Police around to my door in half an
    hour?



  11. #11
    The Drone
    Guest

    Re: What records do networks keep on texts?

    In article <[email protected]>, Kalico
    <[email protected]> writes

    >It's a scary world we live in - and I don't mean because of the
    >terrorists.

    Quite so. I'm quite a laid back kind of guy about most things but I'm
    increasingly concerned about the direction all this monitoring and
    control is heading.

    >Do you think I will now have the Police around to my door in half an
    >hour?

    I doubt it'll be that quick. Perhaps in a few weeks someone with a
    tenuous link to you might get woken in their beds at 5am. They might
    even get shot.

    --
    Peter



  12. #12
    Ian Stirling
    Guest

    Re: What records do networks keep on texts?

    [email protected] wrote:
    > On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:20:53 +0000, Kalico <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>At the moment, he has a situation were someone has made an allegation
    >>to the Police and the only evidence is that they walked into the
    >>Police station and 'showed' the counter officer the text on their
    >>mobile. The office duly noted that there appeared to be a text from
    >>my friend and wrote down what it said.

    >
    > That can be faked. The network's records can't, though.


    "can't nearly as easily", rather than just can't.



  • Similar Threads