Why did store manager keep phone?

I found a Motorola cell phone at the end of my front walk. I figured a
neighbor lost it jogging. Battery was dead so I couldn't get any info from
it. I put a sign on my house and posted a note on a town Yahoo list. No
takers. The phone said "Cingular" on it, so I took it to the nearest
dealer, asked them to charge it a bit so I could get the number. Turns out
it was the manager who waited on me. He said he can find the owner without
charging it. He took the battery out, and using info that was inside,
looked up the owner on the computer. Using a speakerphone, he called who he
said was the registered owner. Got an answering machine. He left msg to
effect that the phone was found and is at the store and they could call to
claim it. But he didn't give them my name or number. I wanted the neighbor
to know who found it, and I also figured the phone was mine if no one
actually claimed it. I asked for it back and told him to give them my
number if they called. He refused. We argued. He kept giving me a line
about how the owner was a Cingular customer and he would make sure they got
the phone. When I argued that I wanted to do that, that I wanted to close
the loop myself, and that frankly I trusted myself to do it better than I
trusted him, he said let's call the police and have them settle it. He
disappeared into the back. I waited 10 minutes and he didn't return.
Finally I sent msg in with another employee to write me a receipt for the
phone - something he'd offered to do earlier. I waited another 5 minutes.
No receipt, no reappearance of manager. I finally left, which I guess is
what he wanted me to do.

I could have taken that phone somewhere else, got it charged, found owner
and returned it myself. I just happened to take it to a Cingular
dealership, and instead of accomplishing a good deed, ended up being hassled
by the store manager. Maybe someone wiser than I in the ways of the cell
phone business can explain what was going on. Is it possible he wants to
recycle the phone into their business if it is not claimed? I can't think
of any other reason he would insist on keeping it.

---

› See More: Why did store manager keep phone?

To answer my own post: just got call from rightful owner. He was at the
Cingular store and called to say thanks. He was not a neighbor but a
township employee - snowplow operator. He had plowed my neighborhood during
NYC blizzard of Feb 12. Phone must have been under huge snowbank for a week
or so, and surfaced as the snow melted.

Still don't understand why the store manager chose to handle it that way,
but I guess my paranoia boiled over at his attitude. Probably also, I was
influenced by my own experience some years ago of recovering my own lost
phone simply by calling it. (It was in my school's shuttle van.) I figured
this was a sort of reverse case scenario. Anyway, glad the owner got his
phone back.

Dont feel bad or what ever you feel ever since the local store manager
in my area told me that his PTT was faster than NEXTEL ("which I had
for a brief period of time") and argued with him and than said lets
prove it, and he LOST and lost in his own store and packed easily 12 to
14 customers with every one watching and him mumbling that Nextel beat
his PTT, since that evening when I go in there he will NOT come out of
his office or hides in the back.

The guy is actually cool and very knowledgeable just ran his MOUTH too
much and more or less had his face slapped and slapped good.



Ron wrote:
> I found a Motorola cell phone at the end of my front walk. I figured a
> neighbor lost it jogging. Battery was dead so I couldn't get any info
> from it. I put a sign on my house and posted a note on a town Yahoo
> list. No takers. The phone said "Cingular" on it, so I took it to the
> nearest dealer, asked them to charge it a bit so I could get the
> number. Turns out it was the manager who waited on me. He said he can
> find the owner without charging it. He took the battery out, and using
> info that was inside, looked up the owner on the computer. Using a
> speakerphone, he called who he said was the registered owner. Got an
> answering machine. He left msg to effect that the phone was found and
> is at the store and they could call to claim it. But he didn't give
> them my name or number. I wanted the neighbor to know who found it, and
> I also figured the phone was mine if no one actually claimed it. I
> asked for it back and told him to give them my number if they called.
> He refused. We argued. He kept giving me a line about how the owner
> was a Cingular customer and he would make sure they got the phone. When
> I argued that I wanted to do that, that I wanted to close the loop
> myself, and that frankly I trusted myself to do it better than I trusted
> him, he said let's call the police and have them settle it. He
> disappeared into the back. I waited 10 minutes and he didn't return.
> Finally I sent msg in with another employee to write me a receipt for
> the phone - something he'd offered to do earlier. I waited another 5
> minutes. No receipt, no reappearance of manager. I finally left, which
> I guess is what he wanted me to do.
>
> I could have taken that phone somewhere else, got it charged, found
> owner and returned it myself. I just happened to take it to a Cingular
> dealership, and instead of accomplishing a good deed, ended up being
> hassled by the store manager. Maybe someone wiser than I in the ways of
> the cell phone business can explain what was going on. Is it possible
> he wants to recycle the phone into their business if it is not
> claimed? I can't think of any other reason he would insist on keeping it.

>"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>I found a Motorola cell phone at the end of my front walk. I figured a
>neighbor lost it jogging. Battery was dead so I couldn't get any info from
>it. I put a sign on my house and posted a note on a town Yahoo list. No
>takers. The phone said "Cingular" on it, so I took it to the nearest
>dealer, asked them to charge it a bit so I could get the number. Turns out
>it was the manager who waited on me. He said he can find the owner without
>charging it. He took the battery out, and using info that was inside,
>looked up the owner on the computer. Using a speakerphone, he called who
>he said was the registered owner. Got an answering machine. He left msg
>to effect that the phone was found and is at the store and they could call
>to claim it. But he didn't give them my name or number. I wanted the
>neighbor to know who found it, and I also figured the phone was mine if no
>one actually claimed it. I asked for it back and told him to give them my
>number if they called. He refused. We argued. He kept giving me a line
>about how the owner was a Cingular customer and he would make sure they got
>the phone. When I argued that I wanted to do that, that I wanted to close
>the loop myself, and that frankly I trusted myself to do it better than I
>trusted him, he said let's call the police and have them settle it. He
>disappeared into the back. I waited 10 minutes and he didn't return.
>Finally I sent msg in with another employee to write me a receipt for the
>phone - something he'd offered to do earlier. I waited another 5 minutes.
>No receipt, no reappearance of manager. I finally left, which I guess is
>what he wanted me to do.
>
> I could have taken that phone somewhere else, got it charged, found owner
> and returned it myself. I just happened to take it to a Cingular
> dealership, and instead of accomplishing a good deed, ended up being
> hassled by the store manager. Maybe someone wiser than I in the ways of
> the cell phone business can explain what was going on. Is it possible he
> wants to recycle the phone into their business if it is not claimed? I
> can't think of any other reason he would insist on keeping it.
Manager kept phone because that's policy.
You found the phone took it to Cingular and that
should have been it. How is the manager to know that you aren't just
trying to get a free phone out of this?

--
Andrew D. Sisson
LG VX8100
VZW<BAM<FRONTIER CELLULAR<ROCHESTER TEL. MOBILE
SID 154 EV-DO PRL 50463
SINCE APRIL 1993

Andy S wrote:
>>"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>I found a Motorola cell phone at the end of my front walk. I figured a
>>neighbor lost it jogging. Battery was dead so I couldn't get any info from
>>it. I put a sign on my house and posted a note on a town Yahoo list. No
>>takers. The phone said "Cingular" on it, so I took it to the nearest
>>dealer, asked them to charge it a bit so I could get the number. Turns out
>>it was the manager who waited on me. He said he can find the owner without
>>charging it. He took the battery out, and using info that was inside,
>>looked up the owner on the computer. Using a speakerphone, he called who
>>he said was the registered owner. Got an answering machine. He left msg
>>to effect that the phone was found and is at the store and they could call
>>to claim it. But he didn't give them my name or number. I wanted the
>>neighbor to know who found it, and I also figured the phone was mine if no
>>one actually claimed it. I asked for it back and told him to give them my
>>number if they called. He refused. We argued. He kept giving me a line
>>about how the owner was a Cingular customer and he would make sure they got
>>the phone. When I argued that I wanted to do that, that I wanted to close
>>the loop myself, and that frankly I trusted myself to do it better than I
>>trusted him, he said let's call the police and have them settle it. He
>>disappeared into the back. I waited 10 minutes and he didn't return.
>>Finally I sent msg in with another employee to write me a receipt for the
>>phone - something he'd offered to do earlier. I waited another 5 minutes.
>>No receipt, no reappearance of manager. I finally left, which I guess is
>>what he wanted me to do.
>>
>>I could have taken that phone somewhere else, got it charged, found owner
>>and returned it myself. I just happened to take it to a Cingular
>>dealership, and instead of accomplishing a good deed, ended up being
>>hassled by the store manager. Maybe someone wiser than I in the ways of
>>the cell phone business can explain what was going on. Is it possible he
>>wants to recycle the phone into their business if it is not claimed? I
>>can't think of any other reason he would insist on keeping it.
>
> Manager kept phone because that's policy.
> You found the phone took it to Cingular and that
> should have been it. How is the manager to know that you aren't just
> trying to get a free phone out of this?
>


Nobody knows who thought what nor when... Ron got his Really Good Guy
Glory badge after all was said and done, and that's all he needed.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

I found a phone in a taxi and took it to Verizon and told them that I had
found the phone and was trying to return it to its owner. He said its plan
had been canceled and did I want to use it. I said I did. . It seemed that
he couldn't care less who owned it. He just wanted to make sure it was on an
active plan.That was my first cell phone.


"Andy S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
>>I found a Motorola cell phone at the end of my front walk. I figured a
>>neighbor lost it jogging. Battery was dead so I couldn't get any info
>>from it. I put a sign on my house and posted a note on a town Yahoo list.
>>No takers. The phone said "Cingular" on it, so I took it to the nearest
>>dealer, asked them to charge it a bit so I could get the number. Turns
>>out it was the manager who waited on me. He said he can find the owner
>>without charging it. He took the battery out, and using info that was
>>inside, looked up the owner on the computer. Using a speakerphone, he
>>called who he said was the registered owner. Got an answering machine.
>>He left msg to effect that the phone was found and is at the store and
>>they could call to claim it. But he didn't give them my name or number.
>>I wanted the neighbor to know who found it, and I also figured the phone
>>was mine if no one actually claimed it. I asked for it back and told him
>>to give them my number if they called. He refused. We argued. He kept
>>giving me a line about how the owner was a Cingular customer and he would
>>make sure they got the phone. When I argued that I wanted to do that,
>>that I wanted to close the loop myself, and that frankly I trusted myself
>>to do it better than I trusted him, he said let's call the police and have
>>them settle it. He disappeared into the back. I waited 10 minutes and
>>he didn't return. Finally I sent msg in with another employee to write me
>>a receipt for the phone - something he'd offered to do earlier. I waited
>>another 5 minutes. No receipt, no reappearance of manager. I finally
>>left, which I guess is what he wanted me to do.
>>
>> I could have taken that phone somewhere else, got it charged, found owner
>> and returned it myself. I just happened to take it to a Cingular
>> dealership, and instead of accomplishing a good deed, ended up being
>> hassled by the store manager. Maybe someone wiser than I in the ways of
>> the cell phone business can explain what was going on. Is it possible he
>> wants to recycle the phone into their business if it is not claimed? I
>> can't think of any other reason he would insist on keeping it.
> Manager kept phone because that's policy.
> You found the phone took it to Cingular and that
> should have been it. How is the manager to know that you aren't just
> trying to get a free phone out of this?
>
> --
> Andrew D. Sisson
> LG VX8100
> VZW<BAM<FRONTIER CELLULAR<ROCHESTER TEL. MOBILE
> SID 154 EV-DO PRL 50463
> SINCE APRIL 1993
>

You told Cingular you wanted to find the owner of the phone. Cingular told
you they could easily find the owner and contact them. You admitted it
wasn't your phone and Cingular took good care of their customer. I'n not
sure what your problem is?

"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Still don't understand why the store manager chose to handle it that way,
> but I guess my paranoia boiled over at his attitude.

No problem, except that the store manager's behavior aggravated me. I had
already put in some time trying to find the owner myself, and I wanted to
finish it myself. I thought it might be a neighbor, and I also was curious
to learn exactly how the phone happened to land on my front walk. I had
possession of the phone. It wasn't mine, but it wasn't Cingular's either.
Yet the manager physically took it from me and refused to return it. (He
never cited "policy" btw) I find that to be strange behavior. Apparently
you don't. No matter, the owner has his phone, and, because he chose to
notify me, I know the story.

"ditinsta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You told Cingular you wanted to find the owner of the phone. Cingular told
> you they could easily find the owner and contact them. You admitted it
> wasn't your phone and Cingular took good care of their customer. I'n not
> sure what your problem is?
>

Ron wrote:
> Maybe someone wiser than I in the ways of the cell
> phone business can explain what was going on. ... I can't think
> of any other reason he would insist on keeping it.

Perhaps Cingular tagged you as the "cell phone stalker," a deviant who
steals cell phones then uses Customer Service to lead him to his
victims' homes. Perhaps the computer noted that the phone's owner was
your ex-boyfriend who has a restraining order against you.

Personally I'd be rather annoyed if Cingular started sending total
strangers to my home. I'd much rather they act as a trusted agent to
relay the phone to me (as this manager did).

tg.

subdude wrote:
> On 21 Feb 2006 05:02:44 -0800, "tom glaab" <[email protected]> graced
> us with:
>
>
>>Ron wrote:
>>
>>>Maybe someone wiser than I in the ways of the cell
>>>phone business can explain what was going on. ... I can't think
>>>of any other reason he would insist on keeping it.
>>
>>Perhaps Cingular tagged you as the "cell phone stalker," a deviant who
>>steals cell phones then uses Customer Service to lead him to his
>>victims' homes. Perhaps the computer noted that the phone's owner was
>>your ex-boyfriend who has a restraining order against you.
>>
>>Personally I'd be rather annoyed if Cingular started sending total
>>strangers to my home. I'd much rather they act as a trusted agent to
>>relay the phone to me (as this manager did).
>>
>>tg.
>
>
> Excellent, albeit scary, thought.


Considering the recent spate of news stories related to identity theft
and/or fraud via cell phone records, sounds like this store manager has
been reading his corporate email blog about using prudence when dealing
with customer records. IOW, he did the right thing for all the right
reasons. Kudos to him for giving a ****.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

Somewhere around Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:06:14 GMT, while reading
alt.cellular.cingular, I think I thought I saw this post from subdude
<[email protected]>:

>On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:55:18 -0600, "ditinsta" <[email protected]>
>graced us with:
>
>>You told Cingular you wanted to find the owner of the phone. Cingular told
>>you they could easily find the owner and contact them. You admitted it
>>wasn't your phone and Cingular took good care of their customer. I'n not
>>sure what your problem is?
>>
>
>The manager did what he was supposed to do, and what company policy
>dictated.
>
>It seems Ron's problem was that it just wasn't enough to do a nice
>thing for someone and feel good about it privately - he wanted his
>'due' (personal gratitude, reward, whatever).
>
>Now all of the group knows what a "great guy" you are, so hopefully
>you're happy with your 15 minutes of fame....
You seem to have missed part of the point - what if nobody claimed it?
Wouldn't it then belong to whoever found it?

What if the guy who lost it wanted to reward the person who found it, spent
time looking for the rightful owner, etc? Why should the store owner get
the possible reward, or even appreciation, while the person who spent the
most energy gets nothing?

Ron spent his time to go to this store to turn it in, and the manager acted
like he stole it or something. I don't think the problem is with Ron, I
think the store manager was a jerk.

--
Marty - public.forums (at) gmail (dot) com
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

Somewhere around Tue, 21 Feb 2006 10:44:34 -0600, while reading
alt.cellular.cingular, I think I thought I saw this post from Jer
<[email protected]>:

>subdude wrote:
>> On 21 Feb 2006 05:02:44 -0800, "tom glaab" <[email protected]> graced
>> us with:
>>
>>
>>>Ron wrote:
>>>
>>>>Maybe someone wiser than I in the ways of the cell
>>>>phone business can explain what was going on. ... I can't think
>>>>of any other reason he would insist on keeping it.
>>>
>>>Perhaps Cingular tagged you as the "cell phone stalker," a deviant who
>>>steals cell phones then uses Customer Service to lead him to his
>>>victims' homes. Perhaps the computer noted that the phone's owner was
>>>your ex-boyfriend who has a restraining order against you.
>>>
>>>Personally I'd be rather annoyed if Cingular started sending total
>>>strangers to my home. I'd much rather they act as a trusted agent to
>>>relay the phone to me (as this manager did).
>>>
>>>tg.
>>
>>
>> Excellent, albeit scary, thought.
>
>
>Considering the recent spate of news stories related to identity theft
>and/or fraud via cell phone records, sounds like this store manager has
>been reading his corporate email blog about using prudence when dealing
>with customer records. IOW, he did the right thing for all the right
>reasons. Kudos to him for giving a ****.

Perhaps, but Ron never asked for the information, he only wanted to charge
the phone, probably in case the owner called. I once found a phone, and the
owner did call, and I met him close by to return it.

If someone is a stalker or whatever, he's probably not going to a Cingular
store to have it charged.

Besides, maybe the owner was a stalker.

I usually like to ask myself "What would Jesus do in a case like this?"
But then I decided Jesus probably didn't have a cell phone.

--
Marty - public.forums (at) gmail (dot) com
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

>>Considering the recent spate of news stories related to identity theft
>>and/or fraud via cell phone records, sounds like this store manager has
>>been reading his corporate email blog about using prudence when dealing
>>with customer records. IOW, he did the right thing for all the right
>>reasons. Kudos to him for giving a ****.
>
> Perhaps, but Ron never asked for the information, he only wanted to charge
> the phone, probably in case the owner called.

Correct. As stated above, that's how I recovered my own (Verizon) phone one
time. Or if the found phone's own number were somewhere evident in there,
I'd have left a msg on the voice mail telling owner how to contact me. As I
think I mentioned above, I never wanted the owner's personal info. I just
wanted the Cingular manager to act as a conduit. BTW - to the posters who
think I wanted "glory" - I had my 15 minutes of fame decades ago. It's
over-rated. I just happen to be one of those compulsive types who wants to
finish a job into which I'd already invested some time, and, in this case,
to understand the story behind it. Again, that store manager never cited
"policy." He was offensive and insulting, and he physically removed from my
possession an object which, to my mind, I had more right to hold than he.
Thank you Marty for actually understanding my posts.

The manager was an ass. He wanted to play big shot with his title and be the
manager of the situation. It's too bad, those are the things that make
people drop a carrier is experiences like that. You had more calmness then
I would have, at least the cell phone made it back to the owner.
"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>>Considering the recent spate of news stories related to identity theft
>>>and/or fraud via cell phone records, sounds like this store manager has
>>>been reading his corporate email blog about using prudence when dealing
>>>with customer records. IOW, he did the right thing for all the right
>>>reasons. Kudos to him for giving a ****.
>>
>> Perhaps, but Ron never asked for the information, he only wanted to
>> charge
>> the phone, probably in case the owner called.
>
> Correct. As stated above, that's how I recovered my own (Verizon) phone
> one time. Or if the found phone's own number were somewhere evident in
> there, I'd have left a msg on the voice mail telling owner how to contact
> me. As I think I mentioned above, I never wanted the owner's personal
> info. I just wanted the Cingular manager to act as a conduit. BTW - to
> the posters who think I wanted "glory" - I had my 15 minutes of fame
> decades ago. It's over-rated. I just happen to be one of those
> compulsive types who wants to finish a job into which I'd already invested
> some time, and, in this case, to understand the story behind it. Again,
> that store manager never cited "policy." He was offensive and insulting,
> and he physically removed from my possession an object which, to my mind,
> I had more right to hold than he. Thank you Marty for actually
> understanding my posts.
>

Ron wrote:
> I found a Motorola cell phone at the end of my front walk. I figured a
> neighbor lost it jogging. Battery was dead so I couldn't get any info
> from it. I put a sign on my house and posted a note on a town Yahoo
> list. No takers. The phone said "Cingular" on it, so I took it to the
> nearest dealer,

Which is what you should have done in the first place.


> asked them to charge it a bit so I could get the
> number. Turns out it was the manager who waited on me. He said he can
> find the owner without charging it. He took the battery out, and using
> info that was inside, looked up the owner on the computer. Using a
> speakerphone, he called who he said was the registered owner. Got an
> answering machine. He left msg to effect that the phone was found and
> is at the store and they could call to claim it. But he didn't give
> them my name or number.

Which is exactly what he was supposed to do, and should do.

> I wanted the neighbor to know who found it,

Why? So you found a lost cell phone and returned it. Why is it
absolutely imperative that the neighbor know it was you who returned it?


> and
> I also figured the phone was mine if no one actually claimed it.

So if I find your car parked on the street, I guess that automatically
makes it mine? Of course not, because the car has been registered by an
established authoritative body (the state DMV) that lists you as the
registered owner of the vehicle. Even if you abandon the car for a
whole year, I still have no claim to the car whatsoever, and the car is
still under your ownership and your responsibility.

The phone you "found" did not belong to you, and you have no claim of
possession of it. Unfortunately for you, "finders keepers" is not the
rule of the land in situations where ownership of property is documented
and traceable. The IMEI of the phone is, similar to the car analogy,
registered in a database that allows Cingular to trace the phone back to
its owner, and that means the phone STILL belongs to its owner, even if
they appear to have abandoned it.

>I
> asked for it back and told him to give them my number if they called.
> He refused.

I would have refused, too!


> He kept giving me a line about how the owner
> was a Cingular customer and he would make sure they got the phone. When
> I argued that I wanted to do that, that I wanted to close the loop
> myself, and that frankly I trusted myself to do it better than I trusted
> him, he said let's call the police and have them settle it.

You have to understand a few things.

First, the manager of the Cingular store is just as suspicious that YOU
won't close the loop as much as you *claim* to be that HE won't close
the loop.

Second, you've done your part. Accept it! You've returned the phone to
a place where any reasonable person would expect that efforts would be
made to return the property to its rightful owner. The phone's IMEI is
registered to its owner, and presumably, if the owner was that concerned
about their phone, they could request that Cingular blacklist the
phone's IMEI so that no one else can use it UNTIL it is returned to them.

You also saw the manager make a reasonable effort to contact the owner.
That, I think, is proof enough that he wants to get phone and owner
reunited. He has no reason to give YOU the owner's info. In fact, he
has a separate obligation to protect the owner's privacy, and by
witholding the owner's information he was doing just that. Besides, if
the manager is as unscrupulous as you think he is, then really, that's
between him and Cingular.

Third, if the phone's owner had insurance and he or she made a claim on
the phone and got a replacement, then technically it's no longer their
property. Rather, the found phone now belongs to the insurance company,
and thus it's the obligation of the Cingular store manager to return the
phone to insurance company, NOT the owner. YOU do not know the status
of that phone. The Cingular manager does. Therefore he is in the best
position to do what is right, NOT you.

And finally, your actions quite frankly smack of suspicious and ulterior
motives. A truly good deed done doesn't require that any lavishing of
praise be bestowed upon the doer, and it appears that you're holding out
for some kind of special acknowledgement from the owner, or some kind of
reward. Sometimes rewards are offered, and that's great! In fact, if I
wanted something returned to me, *I* would offer a reward. But, you are
not automatically *entitled* to that sort of thing, so you should not
expect anything of the kind. And if you ARE expecting that sort of
thing, then maybe the world would have been better off if you left this
"found" phone exactly where you "found" it.

Or, for all I know (and for all the Cingular store manager knows) you
could be some creepy guy with an stalker's obsession towards this
person, and your "finding" of the phone was really a ruse to get this
person's personal info. In which case, it's the Cingular store manager
who deserves the reward, not you.





He
> disappeared into the back. I waited 10 minutes and he didn't return.
> Finally I sent msg in with another employee to write me a receipt for
> the phone - something he'd offered to do earlier. I waited another 5
> minutes. No receipt, no reappearance of manager. I finally left, which
> I guess is what he wanted me to do.
>
> I could have taken that phone somewhere else, got it charged, found
> owner and returned it myself. I just happened to take it to a Cingular
> dealership, and instead of accomplishing a good deed, ended up being
> hassled by the store manager. Maybe someone wiser than I in the ways of
> the cell phone business can explain what was going on. Is it possible
> he wants to recycle the phone into their business if it is not
> claimed? I can't think of any other reason he would insist on keeping it.


--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.