How should i charge my li-ion battery of my cellphone?

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 04:26:34 GMT, [email protected] (Charles Hawtrey)
posted in alt.cellular.motorola:

>According to Motorola, "The relationship between DOD (depth of
>discharge) and cycle life is logarithmic. In other words, the number
>of cycles yielded by a battery goes up exponentially the lower the
>DOD. Research studies have shown that the typical cellular phone user
>depletes their battery about 25 to 30 percent before recharging.
>Testing has shown that at this low level of DOD a lithium-ion battery
>can expect between 5 and 6 times the cycle numbers of a battery
>discharged to the one hundred percent DOD level continuously."

This assumes a properly conditioned battery.

Proper conditioning consists of fully charging the battery (a 12 hour
charge for the first charge won't hurt), fully discharging it (until
the phone shuts off), and repeating the cycle. (It doesn't have to be
discharged in one continuous use - just don't recharge it until it's
fully discharged.) Then you can charge it every day or so.
--
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net

---

› See More: How should i charge my li-ion battery of my cellphone?

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 04:26:34 GMT, [email protected] (Charles Hawtrey)
posted in alt.cellular.motorola:

>According to Motorola, "The relationship between DOD (depth of
>discharge) and cycle life is logarithmic. In other words, the number
>of cycles yielded by a battery goes up exponentially the lower the
>DOD. Research studies have shown that the typical cellular phone user
>depletes their battery about 25 to 30 percent before recharging.
>Testing has shown that at this low level of DOD a lithium-ion battery
>can expect between 5 and 6 times the cycle numbers of a battery
>discharged to the one hundred percent DOD level continuously."

This assumes a properly conditioned battery.

Proper conditioning consists of fully charging the battery (a 12 hour
charge for the first charge won't hurt), fully discharging it (until
the phone shuts off), and repeating the cycle. (It doesn't have to be
discharged in one continuous use - just don't recharge it until it's
fully discharged.) Then you can charge it every day or so.
--
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:02:41 +0800, "tuned by RÄZO"
<[email protected]> posted in alt.cellular.motorola:

>Of course. The lower DOD means shorter usage between charges = more short
>charges possible. But does it mean longer useful lifespan of the same
>battery?

Each particular LiIon battery has a maximum charge time/depth life.
If you discharge it less each time, you can get more charge/discharge
cycles, but the total life will be the same. IOW, if you can run for
a week before the phone shuts off, you can charge the phone once/week
or you can charge it every night, but it'll still start going bad in
12-18 months (typically).
--
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:02:41 +0800, "tuned by RÄZO"
<[email protected]> posted in alt.cellular.motorola:

>Of course. The lower DOD means shorter usage between charges = more short
>charges possible. But does it mean longer useful lifespan of the same
>battery?

Each particular LiIon battery has a maximum charge time/depth life.
If you discharge it less each time, you can get more charge/discharge
cycles, but the total life will be the same. IOW, if you can run for
a week before the phone shuts off, you can charge the phone once/week
or you can charge it every night, but it'll still start going bad in
12-18 months (typically).
--
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net

On 4 Dec 2003 01:53:03 -0800, [email protected]
(gopi) posted in alt.cellular.motorola:

>Very interesting article. I think the article is a bit unclear at
>first, however. If the battery is linear, then you'd expect that by
>discharging it 25% each time you'd get 4x as many charge/discharge
>cycles as if you did 100%. This makes the 5x or 6x sound a bit less
>astounding.

>In other words, you get 25% to 50% more life out of your battery if
>you only discharge it a quarter each time. That's quite good, but not
>as impressive as the article sounds at first.

If you discharge it 25% each time, you'll get 4 times the number of
charge/discharge cycles. You're still getting exactly the same life
from the battery. Instead of taking - to make up numbers - 10 watts
out of the battery 100 times, you take 2.5 watts out of it 400 times.
That's 1,000 watts, any way you look at it. If the phone uses 2
watts/day, you get 500 days use out of the battery.

Yes, you can charge it 4 times as many times, but so what?
--
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net

On 4 Dec 2003 01:53:03 -0800, [email protected]
(gopi) posted in alt.cellular.motorola:

>Very interesting article. I think the article is a bit unclear at
>first, however. If the battery is linear, then you'd expect that by
>discharging it 25% each time you'd get 4x as many charge/discharge
>cycles as if you did 100%. This makes the 5x or 6x sound a bit less
>astounding.

>In other words, you get 25% to 50% more life out of your battery if
>you only discharge it a quarter each time. That's quite good, but not
>as impressive as the article sounds at first.

If you discharge it 25% each time, you'll get 4 times the number of
charge/discharge cycles. You're still getting exactly the same life
from the battery. Instead of taking - to make up numbers - 10 watts
out of the battery 100 times, you take 2.5 watts out of it 400 times.
That's 1,000 watts, any way you look at it. If the phone uses 2
watts/day, you get 500 days use out of the battery.

Yes, you can charge it 4 times as many times, but so what?
--
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net

In article <[email protected]>,
Al Klein <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 04:26:34 GMT, [email protected] (Charles Hawtrey)
>posted in alt.cellular.motorola:
>
>>According to Motorola, "The relationship between DOD (depth of
>>discharge) and cycle life is logarithmic. In other words, the number
>>of cycles yielded by a battery goes up exponentially the lower the
>>DOD. Research studies have shown that the typical cellular phone user
>>depletes their battery about 25 to 30 percent before recharging.
>>Testing has shown that at this low level of DOD a lithium-ion battery
>>can expect between 5 and 6 times the cycle numbers of a battery
>>discharged to the one hundred percent DOD level continuously."
>
>This assumes a properly conditioned battery.
>
>Proper conditioning consists of fully charging the battery (a 12 hour
>charge for the first charge won't hurt), fully discharging it (until
>the phone shuts off), and repeating the cycle. (It doesn't have to be
>discharged in one continuous use - just don't recharge it until it's
>fully discharged.) Then you can charge it every day or so.

According to a battery engineer who posts a lot on the battery newsgroup,
this is a fallacy:


From: Evgenij Barsukov <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: sci.chem.electrochem.battery
Subject: Re: Charging Li-Ion batteries
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:17:07 -0500
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated

GGreen wrote:
>
> Rumor has it that Li-Ions should be 'conditioned' when new. That
> would entail charging completely, then running to a very low discharge
> point, and cycling through that a couple times. After that initial
> breakin cycle, it's OK to charge the battery at any time.
>
> I've seen that in print several times. Any basis for it?

Actually conditioning (formation of semi-insulating layer on the anode particles)
is done by battery manufacturers. They are required to make the formation cycle
before they ship the cells. Formation is not completely finished in one charge cycle,
so in case of some manufacturers who make only one formation cycle,
cells will still show increased capacity loss during
a comple of additional cycles.

Also, most of new high capacity cells have increased useable
capacity loss during first 10-20 cycles, and then capacity stabilizes.
This has similar reason - still growing insulating layer increases cell impedance which
in turn results in less useable capacity at high (say C/2) loads wich are common
in notebooks, phones and PDAs.

There is no need to deeply discharge the battery for make formation cycle.
Insulating layer will be formed in the natural cause of battery usage (mostly
during charging stage).

Regards,
Evgenij
--

__________________________________________________
*science&fiction*free programs*fine art*phylosophy:
http://sudy_zhenja.tripod.com
----------remove hate_spam to answer--------------

In article <[email protected]>,
Al Klein <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 04:26:34 GMT, [email protected] (Charles Hawtrey)
>posted in alt.cellular.motorola:
>
>>According to Motorola, "The relationship between DOD (depth of
>>discharge) and cycle life is logarithmic. In other words, the number
>>of cycles yielded by a battery goes up exponentially the lower the
>>DOD. Research studies have shown that the typical cellular phone user
>>depletes their battery about 25 to 30 percent before recharging.
>>Testing has shown that at this low level of DOD a lithium-ion battery
>>can expect between 5 and 6 times the cycle numbers of a battery
>>discharged to the one hundred percent DOD level continuously."
>
>This assumes a properly conditioned battery.
>
>Proper conditioning consists of fully charging the battery (a 12 hour
>charge for the first charge won't hurt), fully discharging it (until
>the phone shuts off), and repeating the cycle. (It doesn't have to be
>discharged in one continuous use - just don't recharge it until it's
>fully discharged.) Then you can charge it every day or so.

According to a battery engineer who posts a lot on the battery newsgroup,
this is a fallacy:


From: Evgenij Barsukov <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: sci.chem.electrochem.battery
Subject: Re: Charging Li-Ion batteries
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:17:07 -0500
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated

GGreen wrote:
>
> Rumor has it that Li-Ions should be 'conditioned' when new. That
> would entail charging completely, then running to a very low discharge
> point, and cycling through that a couple times. After that initial
> breakin cycle, it's OK to charge the battery at any time.
>
> I've seen that in print several times. Any basis for it?

Actually conditioning (formation of semi-insulating layer on the anode particles)
is done by battery manufacturers. They are required to make the formation cycle
before they ship the cells. Formation is not completely finished in one charge cycle,
so in case of some manufacturers who make only one formation cycle,
cells will still show increased capacity loss during
a comple of additional cycles.

Also, most of new high capacity cells have increased useable
capacity loss during first 10-20 cycles, and then capacity stabilizes.
This has similar reason - still growing insulating layer increases cell impedance which
in turn results in less useable capacity at high (say C/2) loads wich are common
in notebooks, phones and PDAs.

There is no need to deeply discharge the battery for make formation cycle.
Insulating layer will be formed in the natural cause of battery usage (mostly
during charging stage).

Regards,
Evgenij
--

__________________________________________________
*science&fiction*free programs*fine art*phylosophy:
http://sudy_zhenja.tripod.com
----------remove hate_spam to answer--------------

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 13:10:43 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Mike S.)
posted in alt.cellular.motorola:

>According to a battery engineer who posts a lot on the battery newsgroup,
>this is a fallacy:

If the battery is on the shelf long enough, it has to be reformed. If
you want to make the assumption that your battery hasn't been sitting
around for many months, that's your decision.
--
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 13:10:43 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Mike S.)
posted in alt.cellular.motorola:

>According to a battery engineer who posts a lot on the battery newsgroup,
>this is a fallacy:

If the battery is on the shelf long enough, it has to be reformed. If
you want to make the assumption that your battery hasn't been sitting
around for many months, that's your decision.
--
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net

"Mel Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The first time it should be charged for at least 12 hours before using.
The
> next 2 or 3 times you should run the battery down as low as you can and
then

NEVER EVER discharge a lithium ion battery in this fashion.

"Mel Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The first time it should be charged for at least 12 hours before using.
The
> next 2 or 3 times you should run the battery down as low as you can and
then

NEVER EVER discharge a lithium ion battery in this fashion.

"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mel Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The first time it should be charged for at least 12 hours before using.
> The
> > next 2 or 3 times you should run the battery down as low as you can and
> then
>
> NEVER EVER discharge a lithium ion battery in this fashion.

Hmm, been doing it with 6 different Li-Ion batteries over the last 4 years
and they're all still going strong...

Ivor

"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mel Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The first time it should be charged for at least 12 hours before using.
> The
> > next 2 or 3 times you should run the battery down as low as you can and
> then
>
> NEVER EVER discharge a lithium ion battery in this fashion.

Hmm, been doing it with 6 different Li-Ion batteries over the last 4 years
and they're all still going strong...

Ivor

"Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Mel Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > The first time it should be charged for at least 12 hours before
using.
> > The
> > > next 2 or 3 times you should run the battery down as low as you can
and
> > then
> >
> > NEVER EVER discharge a lithium ion battery in this fashion.
>
> Hmm, been doing it with 6 different Li-Ion batteries over the last 4 years
> and they're all still going strong...
>
> Ivor
>
The instructions that came with my 6200 say to let it discharge completely
the first 2-3 times.

--Mike