Does Sprint now alllow (and charge for) phone-laptop Vision use?

I've come across a number of postings recently that claim that Sprint now
effectively allows you to connect your laptop to the internet via a cable,
but charges you for it per kb, even for users with unlimited Vision plans.
Is this true, and if so has Sprint announced this anywhere, or made it clear
in their TOS, and what are they charging for it? Or am I misunderstanding
something here?

--
Kovie
[email protected]zen

---

› See More: Does Sprint now alllow (and charge for) phone-laptop Vision use?

"Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:EI17d.394049$8_6.333224@attbi_s04...
> I've come across a number of postings recently that claim that Sprint now
> effectively allows you to connect your laptop to the internet via a cable,
> but charges you for it per kb, even for users with unlimited Vision plans.

They've never disallowed tethering a laptop to a phone. They have said that
having Unlimited Vision on the phone does not include tethering to a laptop.

None of us here who do connect up and have Vision on our account, use the
service as a regular ISP, and we haven't been charged extra ... not yet at
least. As Phillipe (I detest quoting that weasel) said, we are staying under
SPCS's radar at this time.

Steph's post indicates that they may have used the service too much.

> Is this true, and if so has Sprint announced this anywhere, or made it
clear
> in their TOS, and what are they charging for it? Or am I misunderstanding
> something here?
>
There have been no changes to the TOS.

Bob

According to sprint that they will not bother you if you stay under 300 megs
a month...



"Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:EI17d.394049$8_6.333224@attbi_s04...
>> I've come across a number of postings recently that claim that Sprint now
>> effectively allows you to connect your laptop to the internet via a
>> cable,
>> but charges you for it per kb, even for users with unlimited Vision
>> plans.
>
> They've never disallowed tethering a laptop to a phone. They have said
> that
> having Unlimited Vision on the phone does not include tethering to a
> laptop.
>
> None of us here who do connect up and have Vision on our account, use the
> service as a regular ISP, and we haven't been charged extra ... not yet at
> least. As Phillipe (I detest quoting that weasel) said, we are staying
> under
> SPCS's radar at this time.
>
> Steph's post indicates that they may have used the service too much.
>
>> Is this true, and if so has Sprint announced this anywhere, or made it
> clear
>> in their TOS, and what are they charging for it? Or am I misunderstanding
>> something here?
>>
> There have been no changes to the TOS.
>
> Bob
>
>

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:58:26 +0000, Bob Smith wrote:
> Steph's post indicates that they may have used the service too much.
>
>
> Bob

Actually according to steph's later posts it appears the problem was
billing/plan related and not abuse. Steph said that the account was on the
$100dollar + free vision setup which sprintpcs stopped doing months ago
and that the charges were occuring because sprintpcs does not see the
account having unlimited vision on it.

As far as other users experiences I posted some of my usage and experience
in the other thread on this subject. I am not sure why there is another
one on the same subject tho.

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:41:09 +0000, Kovie wrote:

> I've come across a number of postings recently that claim that Sprint now
> effectively allows you to connect your laptop to the internet via a cable,
> but charges you for it per kb, even for users with unlimited Vision plans.
> Is this true, and if so has Sprint announced this anywhere, or made it clear
> in their TOS, and what are they charging for it? Or am I misunderstanding
> something here?

Sprintpcs at one time openly allowed laptop connections but that time has
since past. Even during that time sprintpcs has always charged a per KB
fee for non-vision accounts. The charge was applied to non-vision
users, users who had a vision phone but not vision service and used the
service anyway, and users who went over their allotment, such as datacard
users with x MB allotments. This is not new and sprintpcs has been doing
it for awhile now. One thing that has been posted was that sprintpcs would
take abusive unlimited vision users, ones using their laptop with the
phone, who used large amount of data and then cancel their vision service
leaving them with the per KB charge.

"Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:EI17d.394049$8_6.333224@attbi_s04...
>> I've come across a number of postings recently that claim that Sprint now
>> effectively allows you to connect your laptop to the internet via a
>> cable,
>> but charges you for it per kb, even for users with unlimited Vision
>> plans.
>
> They've never disallowed tethering a laptop to a phone. They have said
> that
> having Unlimited Vision on the phone does not include tethering to a
> laptop.
>
> None of us here who do connect up and have Vision on our account, use the
> service as a regular ISP, and we haven't been charged extra ... not yet at
> least. As Phillipe (I detest quoting that weasel) said, we are staying
> under
> SPCS's radar at this time.
>
> Steph's post indicates that they may have used the service too much.
>
>> Is this true, and if so has Sprint announced this anywhere, or made it
> clear
>> in their TOS, and what are they charging for it? Or am I misunderstanding
>> something here?
>>
> There have been no changes to the TOS.
>
> Bob
>
>

I'm still a bit confused. If they don't specifically disallow connecting a
laptop to a phone to access the internet, yet don't consider this to be
covered by unlimited Vision, and at the same time don't charge for it, then
under what category does this fall? Is it something they could charge for
but choose not to, and if so why? Are they choosing to look the other way,
because it's not worth the bother of charging for it, or because it's an
unstated incentive to retain and attract customers, or because they haven't
yet figured out a way of charging for it?

--
Kovie
[email protected]zen

"Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Zpj7d.92843$wV.30245@attbi_s54...
> "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:EI17d.394049$8_6.333224@attbi_s04...
> >> I've come across a number of postings recently that claim that Sprint
now
> >> effectively allows you to connect your laptop to the internet via a
> >> cable,
> >> but charges you for it per kb, even for users with unlimited Vision
> >> plans.
> >
> > They've never disallowed tethering a laptop to a phone. They have said
> > that
> > having Unlimited Vision on the phone does not include tethering to a
> > laptop.
> >
> > None of us here who do connect up and have Vision on our account, use
the
> > service as a regular ISP, and we haven't been charged extra ... not yet
at
> > least. As Phillipe (I detest quoting that weasel) said, we are staying
> > under
> > SPCS's radar at this time.
> >
> > Steph's post indicates that they may have used the service too much.
> >
> >> Is this true, and if so has Sprint announced this anywhere, or made it
> > clear
> >> in their TOS, and what are they charging for it? Or am I
misunderstanding
> >> something here?
> >>
> > There have been no changes to the TOS.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
> I'm still a bit confused. If they don't specifically disallow connecting a
> laptop to a phone to access the internet, yet don't consider this to be
> covered by unlimited Vision, and at the same time don't charge for it,
then
> under what category does this fall? Is it something they could charge for
> but choose not to, and if so why? Are they choosing to look the other way,
> because it's not worth the bother of charging for it, or because it's an
> unstated incentive to retain and attract customers, or because they
haven't
> yet figured out a way of charging for it?

Don't worry about it ... As far as I understand, SPCS is unofficially
allowing limited usage ...

Bob

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:50:01 +0000, Kovie wrote:
>
> I'm still a bit confused. If they don't specifically disallow connecting a
> laptop to a phone to access the internet, yet don't consider this to be
> covered by unlimited Vision, and at the same time don't charge for it, then
> under what category does this fall? Is it something they could charge for
> but choose not to, and if so why? Are they choosing to look the other way,
> because it's not worth the bother of charging for it, or because it's an
> unstated incentive to retain and attract customers, or because they haven't
> yet figured out a way of charging for it?

Rest assured that sprintpcs is aware of every transfer your phone/laptop
combo does. At this point it is unsure wither sprintpcs can tell the
difference between on phone apps making vision connection or a tethered
laptop is making them. The reports from users who have been caught for
abuse all seem to involve sprintpcs tracking either bandwidth usage or
looking for odd data patterns,such as alot of activity on mail
ports(pop3/smtp), and really haven't seem to conclude sprintpcs knew for a
fact that these people were using their phone with the laptop. I would
think sprintpcs has the ability to tell the difference since they do load
a custom firmware on the phones. It is not like they have a lack of
control over their entire cell network and the endpoints, such as your
phone.

Also sprintpcs does specifically disallow connecting a laptop to a phone.
The say so in the user contract and if you call them up about it. At one
point they did allow it but then they pulled all connection kits and
shortly after they then had their customer reps say they allow for limited
use. Later they completely switched to the disallow/do not support stance
on laptop/cell usage. A lot of users, including myself, signed up while
they allowed it and continue to do so because that is why we signed up. So
far we have been lucky that sprintpcs has chosen not to aggressively
attack all laptop tethered cellphone users but if they did the best we
could do is cancel. Short story do so quietly or don't do so at all. If
this worries you and you want to use your connection freely you can always
switch providers.

"Central" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:50:01 +0000, Kovie wrote:
>>
>> I'm still a bit confused. If they don't specifically disallow connecting
>> a
>> laptop to a phone to access the internet, yet don't consider this to be
>> covered by unlimited Vision, and at the same time don't charge for it,
>> then
>> under what category does this fall? Is it something they could charge for
>> but choose not to, and if so why? Are they choosing to look the other
>> way,
>> because it's not worth the bother of charging for it, or because it's an
>> unstated incentive to retain and attract customers, or because they
>> haven't
>> yet figured out a way of charging for it?
>
> Rest assured that sprintpcs is aware of every transfer your phone/laptop
> combo does. At this point it is unsure wither sprintpcs can tell the
> difference between on phone apps making vision connection or a tethered
> laptop is making them. The reports from users who have been caught for
> abuse all seem to involve sprintpcs tracking either bandwidth usage or
> looking for odd data patterns,such as alot of activity on mail
> ports(pop3/smtp), and really haven't seem to conclude sprintpcs knew for a
> fact that these people were using their phone with the laptop. I would
> think sprintpcs has the ability to tell the difference since they do load
> a custom firmware on the phones. It is not like they have a lack of
> control over their entire cell network and the endpoints, such as your
> phone.
>
> Also sprintpcs does specifically disallow connecting a laptop to a phone.
> The say so in the user contract and if you call them up about it. At one
> point they did allow it but then they pulled all connection kits and
> shortly after they then had their customer reps say they allow for limited
> use. Later they completely switched to the disallow/do not support stance
> on laptop/cell usage. A lot of users, including myself, signed up while
> they allowed it and continue to do so because that is why we signed up. So
> far we have been lucky that sprintpcs has chosen not to aggressively
> attack all laptop tethered cellphone users but if they did the best we
> could do is cancel. Short story do so quietly or don't do so at all. If
> this worries you and you want to use your connection freely you can always
> switch providers.

I'd find it hard to believe that they can't take apart the packets sent over
the phone and tell whether they come from the phone or a computer. This
should be fairly straightforward, I would think. So I'd guess that they can
definitely tell whether someone's connecting from a phone, or through a
cable connected to a computer. I'm only wondering why they continue to state
that this is unallowed, yet, by default, allow it, so long as people don't
abuse this "look the other way" unofficial (externally at least) policy.
Perhaps the extra cost of allowing such use isn't great enough to warrant
the cost of policing this policy more stringently. Perhaps they're afraid of
driving away good customers if they tried. Perhaps they view this as an
unstated added value to new and existing customers. Or perhaps they're just
collecting stats on such usage, and trying to figure out a way to make it
net profitable. In any case, I'm glad to hear that if I choose to take
advantage of this "loophole", I won't be punished or charged for it, so long
as I don't abuse it. Not having a laptop or working PDA at present, the only
use I might have for it at present is if my cable line goes down, as I have
no landline. In fact, it was for this very purpose that I recently bought a
cable (and which, upon being successfully tested, was put on the shelf
indefinitely).

Thanks.

--
Kovie
[email protected]zen

"Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:QKm7d.398348$8_6.134880@attbi_s04...
> "Central" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
> > On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:50:01 +0000, Kovie wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm still a bit confused. If they don't specifically disallow
connecting
> >> a
> >> laptop to a phone to access the internet, yet don't consider this to be
> >> covered by unlimited Vision, and at the same time don't charge for it,
> >> then
> >> under what category does this fall? Is it something they could charge
for
> >> but choose not to, and if so why? Are they choosing to look the other
> >> way,
> >> because it's not worth the bother of charging for it, or because it's
an
> >> unstated incentive to retain and attract customers, or because they
> >> haven't
> >> yet figured out a way of charging for it?
> >
> > Rest assured that sprintpcs is aware of every transfer your phone/laptop
> > combo does. At this point it is unsure wither sprintpcs can tell the
> > difference between on phone apps making vision connection or a tethered
> > laptop is making them. The reports from users who have been caught for
> > abuse all seem to involve sprintpcs tracking either bandwidth usage or
> > looking for odd data patterns,such as alot of activity on mail
> > ports(pop3/smtp), and really haven't seem to conclude sprintpcs knew for
a
> > fact that these people were using their phone with the laptop. I would
> > think sprintpcs has the ability to tell the difference since they do
load
> > a custom firmware on the phones. It is not like they have a lack of
> > control over their entire cell network and the endpoints, such as your
> > phone.
> >
> > Also sprintpcs does specifically disallow connecting a laptop to a
phone.
> > The say so in the user contract and if you call them up about it. At one
> > point they did allow it but then they pulled all connection kits and
> > shortly after they then had their customer reps say they allow for
limited
> > use. Later they completely switched to the disallow/do not support
stance
> > on laptop/cell usage. A lot of users, including myself, signed up while
> > they allowed it and continue to do so because that is why we signed up.
So
> > far we have been lucky that sprintpcs has chosen not to aggressively
> > attack all laptop tethered cellphone users but if they did the best we
> > could do is cancel. Short story do so quietly or don't do so at all. If
> > this worries you and you want to use your connection freely you can
always
> > switch providers.
>
> I'd find it hard to believe that they can't take apart the packets sent
over
> the phone and tell whether they come from the phone or a computer. This
> should be fairly straightforward, I would think. So I'd guess that they
can
> definitely tell whether someone's connecting from a phone, or through a
> cable connected to a computer. I'm only wondering why they continue to
state
> that this is unallowed, yet, by default, allow it, so long as people don't
> abuse this "look the other way" unofficial (externally at least) policy.
> Perhaps the extra cost of allowing such use isn't great enough to warrant
> the cost of policing this policy more stringently. Perhaps they're afraid
of
> driving away good customers if they tried. Perhaps they view this as an
> unstated added value to new and existing customers. Or perhaps they're
just
> collecting stats on such usage, and trying to figure out a way to make it
> net profitable. In any case, I'm glad to hear that if I choose to take
> advantage of this "loophole", I won't be punished or charged for it, so
long
> as I don't abuse it. Not having a laptop or working PDA at present, the
only
> use I might have for it at present is if my cable line goes down, as I
have
> no landline. In fact, it was for this very purpose that I recently bought
a
> cable (and which, upon being successfully tested, was put on the shelf
> indefinitely).
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Kovie
> [email protected]zen
>
This type of tethered usage is one of the main reasons that I am with
SprintPCS. The fact that I can have a "temporary" internet connection thru
my laptop is invaluable under my existing Vision plan.

Central <[email protected]> wrote in
news[email protected]:

> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:50:01 +0000, Kovie wrote:
>>
[SNIP]
> Also sprintpcs does specifically disallow connecting a laptop to a
> phone. The say so in the user contract and if you call them up about
> it. At one point they did allow it but then they pulled all connection
> kits and shortly after they then had their customer reps say they
> allow for limited use. Later they completely switched to the
> disallow/do not support stance on laptop/cell usage. A lot of users,
> including myself, signed up while they allowed it and continue to do
> so because that is why we signed up. So far we have been lucky that
> sprintpcs has chosen not to aggressively attack all laptop tethered
> cellphone users but if they did the best we could do is cancel. Short
> story do so quietly or don't do so at all. If this worries you and you
> want to use your connection freely you can always switch providers.
>

A TOS can not be changed while the customer is under contract. I signed
a 2-year contract and when Sprint started charging me for an ability
that had been outlined in the literature I told them they would need to
let me out of the contract. They did reverse the charges, but I don't
think it has been straightened out yet -- I am too busy to travel or if
I am I pay the $10/day room charge for a wired connection.

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:32:49 +0000, Steph wrote:
>
> A TOS can not be changed while the customer is under contract. I signed
> a 2-year contract and when Sprint started charging me for an ability
> that had been outlined in the literature I told them they would need to
> let me out of the contract. They did reverse the charges, but I don't
> think it has been straightened out yet -- I am too busy to travel or if
> I am I pay the $10/day room charge for a wired connection.

Actually your TOS does not cover your plan but the agreement between you
and sprintpcs as a user of their pcs network. Your plan is of course
attached to that agreement. Now if you have proof of them changing your
agreed arrangements then you are right you can get out of contract. If I
recall the only documentation you had were promotional fliers which you
can not seem to find. Of course if sprintpcs changes the agreements of
your current plan they are suppose to tell you about it, like the number
portability charge, and offer an opt-out period. Anyway long story short
if you can prove it then yes they are in the wrong, if you can't then you
are out of luck.