#777 / Laptop / Booted from SprinPCS?

"Frank Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "Steph" <[email protected]_CUT> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Hmm.. I *know* I posted my experience on this.
>> My wife and I used our new vision phones for very little for about 6
>> months with no effects, then we got nailed for virtually every
>> minute. SPCS took off the charges the first month without much
>> hassle, but we had already used close to an hour's worth in the next
>> month.
>>
>> I had more trouble dealing with those charges and have since not used
>> the tethered mode. Luckily I have either had Wi-Fi or wired ethernet
>> available to me when travelling -- and it not free it was covered by
>> my room rate or whatever.
>>
>> I hve now switched phones and cannot get the A680 to work as a
>> tethered modem under OS X. So I probably won't have any trouble,
>> though my older N400 is still active, so I could use it in a pinch,
>> and while travelling to florida next week I might do that. I have
>> since switched plans as well, so it would be interesting to see if I
>> get chraged for tetherred access again.
>
> Very informative post. I note you refer to your charges in minutes
> rather than in kilobytes.
> May I ask what they charged you and was it per minute of use or was it
> per kilobyte?
>
>
>


I don't recall the bill mentioning either minutes or kilobytes. I think
there is a web page indicating the charge is something like $0.02 /Kb -
but don't quote me.

The bill showed "additional charges" as I recall with no breakdown,
which was primarily why i phoned SPCS support. I was then told it was
for Vision/data usage. We went through the gyrations of discussing the
unlimited Vision accounts and I stupidly mentioned the tethered usage.

Like I said, I have a new plan and am just waiting for the billing to
stabilize before trying again.

---

› See More: #777 / Laptop / Booted from SprinPCS?

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 11:52:14 -0800, joehatesspa wrote:

> My wife and I recently purchased our first laptop. We also got the
> cable from Radio Shack to connect my Vision-enabled phone to the laptop
> so that while we are at our cabin and elsewhere on the road we can get
> internet access.
>
> I did consider getting a "legit" plan from Sprint, but the cost was way
> to high.
>
> My question is this: Have you ever been cautioned/charged by Sprint for
> doing this, or have you ever heard of anyone actually get
> booted/charged? I've read around on the internet and it seems that
> most people say something along the lines of "Don't abuse it and it
> will be okay", but I am looking for something a little firmer than
> that.
>
> Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
>
> ~Joe

Oh, yeah! After about 4 months I received a letter saying if I did not
stop my account would be terminated, but I was moving a LOT of data (uh,
downloading MP3s all day long...)

If you're using it to browse web pages here and there where you don't have
any other connection I don't think it will be a problem, but don't be
doing it for hours at a time. Even in my case, it was about 4 months
before I received the letter from the tech dept.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected]lid says...
> This example really puzzles me. Was it a "High-Speed RAS" connection
> or something else? I suppose it couldn't have been HSR because that
> isn't CSD, it's standard packet mode. So how do you put a Vision phone
> into CSD mode? I've been told in the past that CSD calls are only
> possible on the older 2G phones, but apparently that's not correct?
> I'd hate to be in CSD mode and not realize it.
>

It's not easy. Remember, I haven't worked there since last July, but if
I recall correctly, it takes getting the drivers that allow your phone
to get detected, and THEN tweaking the AT commands so that the phone
actually dials a POP (in the example I gave, I'm talking like one of the
AOL access numbers you would choose for AOL's dial-up service).

Let's use an example: Let's say you belong to PeoplePC's dial-up
service. And you're in Atlanta, and you want to dial in. I can't
recall Area Codes, so let's just pretend that one Atlanta access number
is 459-126-7862 (boy, I'm in trouble if that's a real number). So you
"convince" your computer that your Sprint Cell phone is actually a
modem, tell it NOT to look for a dial tone, and have the PC dial that
number through your cell phone. The moment that access site starts
handshaking with your "modem", the sprint phone (and the network)
realize you're doing circuit-switched data.

Ch-ching. $0.39/min from the moment handshaking occured (because,
really, the call is complete as soon as those noises start up). If you
disconnect an hour later, your absolute best speed would have been
14.4kbps, and you've just spent $23.40.

So, in short, if you dial an actual phone number, you get the per-minute
charge and the slow speed. If you use #777 or software programs that
are out there to do it for you, then it's Vision usage and whatever
charge applies under that.

--
RØß
O/Siris
-+-
A thing moderately good
is not so good as it ought to be.
Moderation in temper is always a virtue,
but moderation in principle is always a vice.
+Thomas Paine, "The Rights of Man", 1792+

O/Siris wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected]lid says...
>> This example really puzzles me. Was it a "High-Speed RAS" connection
>> or something else? I suppose it couldn't have been HSR because that
>> isn't CSD, it's standard packet mode. So how do you put a Vision
>> phone into CSD mode? I've been told in the past that CSD calls are
>> only possible on the older 2G phones, but apparently that's not
>> correct? I'd hate to be in CSD mode and not realize it.
>>
>
> It's not easy. Remember, I haven't worked there since last July, but
> if I recall correctly, it takes getting the drivers that allow your
> phone to get detected, and THEN tweaking the AT commands so that the
> phone actually dials a POP (in the example I gave, I'm talking like
> one of the AOL access numbers you would choose for AOL's dial-up
> service).
>

I doubt an AOL user is gonna be playin' around with AT codes.


> Let's use an example: Let's say you belong to PeoplePC's dial-up
> service. And you're in Atlanta, and you want to dial in.

Unless you're on some kind of regional plan it doesn't really matter
where you are, no? Since LD has always been included with my SPCS plans,
I never felt the need to ever change my dial-out number (back when I
used CSD). I only dialed into my ISP for the few things I couldn't
easily do via #WEB (like using my ISP's Usenet server).


> I can't
> recall Area Codes, so let's just pretend that one Atlanta access
> number is 459-555-7862 (boy, I'm in trouble if that's a real number).
> So you "convince" your computer that your Sprint Cell phone is
> actually a modem, tell it NOT to look for a dial tone, and have the
> PC dial that number through your cell phone. The moment that access
> site starts handshaking with your "modem", the sprint phone (and the
> network) realize you're doing circuit-switched data.
>

That doesn't sound any different than setting up a typical 2G SPCS
connection.

I think what Paul Miner was asking if you can use a Vision phone with
CSD, and then how. It looks like it is nothing more than using an old 2G
phone. However, I heard one person state it does not work like that, and
you had to use the SPCS Connection Manager (which I don't use) in order
to do it. For clarity, are you saying it's as simple as plugging in the
phone number and disabling the tone check?


--
Mike

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected]lid says...
> >
> >I think what Paul Miner was asking if you can use a Vision phone with
> >CSD, and then how. It looks like it is nothing more than using an old 2G
> >phone. However, I heard one person state it does not work like that, and
> >you had to use the SPCS Connection Manager (which I don't use) in order
> >to do it. For clarity, are you saying it's as simple as plugging in the
> >phone number and disabling the tone check?

Well... the PCS Connection manager is incapable of dialing regular
numbers(not that it couldn't, just that it's only coded for the #777
Vision access code, essentially).

But, if you can get your PC to realize that a dialing device is
connected when your PCS Vision phone is connected, then yeah, it's
basically that easy.

And don't nit-pick so much. The examples I gave were just for ease of
explanation.

Well... and because I actually *did* get a user one night who'd been
socked for $1420 (more or less) in charges... for the third month in a
row. He'd suckered two previous reps into crediting that money back.
Then he got to me, and I saw he'd been dialing the exact same number
during that entire 3 months. We (my Team lead and I) hand-dialed the
number, and sure enough, got modem handshaking. I'm 90% sure he knew
what he was doing fronm Day One, but I was 100% sure he knew it by the
time that third month got going.

I refused him the credit, he demanded a supervisor, and the supervisor
not only turned him down, but then wrote up F.E.T.'s (if you're an SPCS
employee, I think you know what that is, and I think you can get the
gist of it from the following) on the two previous reps for not
investigating this further.

>
> Yes, I was asking how to do CSD with a 3G phone so that I don't
> accidentally do it. :-) I know you can dial any number and have it be
> packet switched if you use the Connection Manager, but the rest I'm
> not too sure of.
>

There is no blank, or place to put a number into the Connection Manager.
PCS Connection Manager is a software product ostensibly to allow the
data cards to access Vision, but it also works for Vision-enabled cell
phones. You need something beside Microsoft's DUN service




--
RØß
O/Siris
-+-
A thing moderately good
is not so good as it ought to be.
Moderation in temper is always a virtue,
but moderation in principle is always a vice.
+Thomas Paine, "The Rights of Man", 1792+

Paul Miner wrote:

> At a high level, when you enter a phone number there, the CM software
> does a quick Area Code lookup to determine the POP nearest to your
> destination. It then connects you via the Vision network to that POP,
> where your 'call' is offloaded to a modem bank and hits the PSTN. So
> looking at it end to end, the first part is packet switched and the
> last part is circuit switched.

I wouldn't even go that far. It's quite possible (even likely) that the
entire call is circuit switched, using a traditional 13kbps just as a
previous generation device would have.

--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Paul Miner wrote:


>>I wouldn't even go that far. It's quite possible (even likely) that the
>>entire call is circuit switched, using a traditional 13kbps just as a
>>previous generation device would have.
>
>
> Well, I'm looking at the original design doc and AFAIK there have been
> no design changes since the functionality was introduced. BTW, the
> modems are 56k.

Yes, the modems are 56k, but a circuit-switched CDMA data channel is
only 13k max. With compression, 14.4k is the best you can hope for.
The RTT packet data network does NOT access the modem banks.


--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected]lid says...
>
> The default connection is as you said, it defaults to just putting you
> on the Vision network. You have to configure a New Connection (in
> Connection Manager) in order to get the dialog where you can enter any
> phone number.
>
> At a high level, when you enter a phone number there, the CM software
> does a quick Area Code lookup to determine the POP nearest to your
> destination. It then connects you via the Vision network to that POP,
> where your 'call' is offloaded to a modem bank and hits the PSTN. So
> looking at it end to end, the first part is packet switched and the
> last part is circuit switched. What I don't know is how such a call
> gets billed, but I'd love to find out. Are these things billed at
> $0.39/minute?
>
>

That level of Connection Manager functionality was considered "Tier 2"
technical support. As a Tier 1 rep, I dealt only with the basic
functionality of the phones and data cards. I came across no examples
of this use of Connection Manager while I worked there. And, while
there may have been some kind of design planning done along the lines
you mention, there was never any such actual functionality that I ever
encountered.

--
RØß
O/Siris
-+-
A thing moderately good
is not so good as it ought to be.
Moderation in temper is always a virtue,
but moderation in principle is always a vice.
+Thomas Paine, "The Rights of Man", 1792+

Paul Miner wrote:

>>The RTT packet data network does NOT access the modem banks.
>
>
> Actually, it does,

If it does, then it has a peculiar way of throttling down its speed
then. I tried it once on a Nokia 6225. Guess what? 12.5kbps was my
max tested speed. Fancy that.


--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Isaiah Beard wrote:
> Paul Miner wrote:
>
>>> The RTT packet data network does NOT access the modem banks.
>>
>>
>> Actually, it does,
>
> If it does, then it has a peculiar way of throttling down its speed
> then. I tried it once on a Nokia 6225. Guess what? 12.5kbps was my
> max tested speed. Fancy that.

I used the 2G network extensively and it *never* came close to 12.5
kbps--using reliable tests. Real-world speed was closer to 4-6 kbps, at
least in every area I used it.


--
Mike | Have you ever imagined a world with no
| hypothetical situations?

O/Siris wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected]lid says...
>>>
>>> I think what Paul Miner was asking if you can use a Vision phone
>>> with CSD, and then how. It looks like it is nothing more than using
>>> an old 2G phone. However, I heard one person state it does not work
>>> like that, and you had to use the SPCS Connection Manager (which I
>>> don't use) in order to do it. For clarity, are you saying it's as
>>> simple as plugging in the phone number and disabling the tone check?
>
> Well... the PCS Connection manager is incapable of dialing regular
> numbers(not that it couldn't, just that it's only coded for the #777
> Vision access code, essentially).
>

Not true.


> But, if you can get your PC to realize that a dialing device is
> connected when your PCS Vision phone is connected, then yeah, it's
> basically that easy.
>

I'm not sure this is correct either. Others have noted that you need to
use the connection manager to accomplish this--not just DUN. I of course
could easily test this myself, and then simply disconnect after a minute
or two. I don't care about .39 for a minute or so, but I'd rather not
call attention to my account.


> And don't nit-pick so much. The examples I gave were just for ease of
> explanation.
>

"Nit-pick?" LOL.


> There is no blank, or place to put a number into the Connection
> Manager.

Yes there is.


> You need something beside Microsoft's DUN service

And that "something" is? (I don't see what another dialer can do that
DUN and connection manager can't, as it pertains to this discussion.)


--
Mike | Most people don't realize that large pieces of
| coral, attached to the skull by common wood
| screws, can make a child look like a deer.

Tinman wrote:

>>If it does, then it has a peculiar way of throttling down its speed
>>then. I tried it once on a Nokia 6225. Guess what? 12.5kbps was my
>>max tested speed. Fancy that.
>
>
> I used the 2G network extensively and it *never* came close to 12.5
> kbps--using reliable tests.

the mobile test on dslreports.com works fairly well. It sends you
straight text though, so it's very easy to do a pure upper-limit test
with it.



--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Isaiah Beard wrote:
> Tinman wrote:
>
>>> If it does, then it has a peculiar way of throttling down its speed
>>> then. I tried it once on a Nokia 6225. Guess what? 12.5kbps was
>>> my max tested speed. Fancy that.
>>
>>
>> I used the 2G network extensively and it *never* came close to 12.5
>> kbps--using reliable tests.
>
> the mobile test on dslreports.com works fairly well. It sends you
> straight text though, so it's very easy to do a pure upper-limit test
> with it.

Oh I believed your test results. I was just saying that that's not all
that bad for CDMA CSD--at least compared to the 2G phones I have used
(haven't tried CSD with a Vision phone). While the old client-server
compression proxy (BlueKite, IIRC) made Web browsing somewhat bearable,
it of course did nothing to help straight binary DLs. I would have
killed for a true 12.5 kbps back then.


--
Mike