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- 07-05-2006, 06:56 AM #1SMSGuest
"http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/07/04/competitors_seek_an_end_to_legal_fight_on_ad_claims/"
This is an interesting article, as it's the first time, AFAIK, that the
contents of the letter that Telephia sent to the other carriers, were
revealed.
1) Telephia never claimed that Cingular had the fewest dropped calls,
and in fact never analyzes its own data.
2) Telephia did state that is some markets, in some time periods,
Cingular had fewer dropped calls, a far cry from what Cingular is now
advertising, and a claim that other carriers could probably also
legitimately use in their own advertising.
3. Telephia used a GSM phone with an external antenna for its tests, and
Sprint claims that this taints the results because most phones offered
b Cingular don't have an external antenna.
4. The areas where Telephia collected their data are not representative
of average users (according to Sprint, Telephia did their data
collection on major highways).
Of course neither Cingular nor Telephia will release their data, which
pretty much assures that the data is highly suspect.
› See More: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
- 07-05-2006, 08:01 AM #2DecaturTxCowboyGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
SMS wrote:
> "http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/07/04/competitors_seek_an_end_to_legal_fight_on_ad_claims/"
>
>
> This is an interesting article, as it's the first time, AFAIK, that the
> contents of the letter that Telephia sent to the other carriers, were
> revealed.
The most interesting part was "a high-stakes legal bid to claim bragging
rights to the best wireless network, a key selling point for consumers
purchasing wireless service."
Carriers are finally recognizing the importance of over network quality
instead of changeable faceplate, ring tones, etc. as they did a few
years ago.
- 07-05-2006, 09:53 AM #3SMSGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
> The most interesting part was "a high-stakes legal bid to claim bragging
> rights to the best wireless network, a key selling point for consumers
> purchasing wireless service."
That statement is especially interesting when you consider that every
independent study, and all industry experts, agree that Verizon, rather
than the two carriers battling this out, has the best network in terms
of coverage. Sprint has the coverage edge in high speed data, with
Verizon a close second, and Cingular far behind and struggling to catch
up. Furthermore, Sprint and Verizon
Cingular took the Telephia data, found some time periods, in some areas,
where they had fewer dropped calls, and has built a whole advertising
campaign on this highly questionable data. The real question is whether
anyone actually believes any of it, and based on Cingular's gross
addition numbers there are people that fall for it, but based on their
churn numbers, these people eventually figure out that it's all bull.
The most amusing adjudication on advertising claims came from the
National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus.
They rejected Cingular's claims of having the most business customers,
and of offering the widest range of business services, but stated that
Cingular had proved it's claim of having the fastest national wireless
data network. Come again? With HSDPA slowly being rolled out (it wasn't
even available in New York City when this "finding" came out, and with
HSDPA no faster than EV-DO rev 0 (though with lower latency), how did
they come up with this gem? Don't you at least need to cover the largest
metropolitan areas to be able to claim that you have a national network?
- 07-05-2006, 10:05 AM #4SMSGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
SMS wrote:
> DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
>
>> The most interesting part was "a high-stakes legal bid to claim
>> bragging rights to the best wireless network, a key selling point for
>> consumers purchasing wireless service."
>
> That statement is especially interesting when you consider that every
> independent study, and all industry experts, agree that Verizon, rather
> than the two carriers battling this out, has the best network in terms
> of coverage. Sprint has the coverage edge in high speed data, with
> Verizon a close second, and Cingular far behind and struggling to catch
> up. Furthermore, Sprint and Verizon
>
> Cingular took the Telephia data, found some time periods, in some areas,
> where they had fewer dropped calls, and has built a whole advertising
> campaign on this highly questionable data. The real question is whether
> anyone actually believes any of it, and based on Cingular's gross
> addition numbers there are people that fall for it, but based on their
> churn numbers, these people eventually figure out that it's all bull.
>
> The most amusing adjudication on advertising claims came from the
> National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus.
> They rejected Cingular's claims of having the most business customers,
> and of offering the widest range of business services, but stated that
> Cingular had proved it's claim of having the fastest national wireless
> data network. Come again? With HSDPA slowly being rolled out (it wasn't
> even available in New York City when this "finding" came out, and with
> HSDPA no faster than EV-DO rev 0 (though with lower latency), how did
> they come up with this gem? Don't you at least need to cover the largest
> metropolitan areas to be able to claim that you have a national network?
Sorry for following up on my own post, but I found the HSDPA versus
EV-DO speed test I was looking for at
"http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1916283,00.asp"
Their conclusion: "For now, both Sprint and Verizon have the upper hand
when it comes to high-speed data."
- 07-06-2006, 05:02 PM #5John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 05:56:53 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>"http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/07/04/competitors_seek_an_end_to_legal_fight_on_ad_claims/"
>
>This is an interesting article, as it's the first time, AFAIK, that the
>contents of the letter that Telephia sent to the other carriers, were
>revealed.
>
>1) Telephia never claimed that Cingular had the fewest dropped calls,
>and in fact never analyzes its own data.
>
>2) Telephia did state that is some markets, in some time periods,
>Cingular had fewer dropped calls, a far cry from what Cingular is now
>advertising, and a claim that other carriers could probably also
>legitimately use in their own advertising.
>
>3. Telephia used a GSM phone with an external antenna for its tests, and
> Sprint claims that this taints the results because most phones offered
>b Cingular don't have an external antenna.
>
>4. The areas where Telephia collected their data are not representative
>of average users (according to Sprint, Telephia did their data
>collection on major highways).
>
>Of course neither Cingular nor Telephia will release their data, which
>pretty much assures that the data is highly suspect.
Likewise other carriers, especially Verizon, which relied only on its
own internal testing (thus lacking any credibility whatsoever).
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 07-06-2006, 05:04 PM #6John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:53:44 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
>
>> The most interesting part was "a high-stakes legal bid to claim bragging
>> rights to the best wireless network, a key selling point for consumers
>> purchasing wireless service."
>
>That statement is especially interesting when you consider that every
>independent study, and all industry experts, agree that Verizon, rather
>than the two carriers battling this out, has the best network in terms
>of coverage. [SNIP rest of propaganda]
That's simply not true, a gross distortion of what's been published.
Cingular's GSM network coverage is at least as good as CDMA network
coverage by Verizon, if not better.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 07-06-2006, 05:05 PM #7John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 09:05:39 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>SMS wrote:
>> DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
>>
>>> The most interesting part was "a high-stakes legal bid to claim
>>> bragging rights to the best wireless network, a key selling point for
>>> consumers purchasing wireless service."
>>
>> That statement is especially interesting when you consider that every
>> independent study, and all industry experts, agree that Verizon, rather
>> than the two carriers battling this out, has the best network in terms
>> of coverage. Sprint has the coverage edge in high speed data, with
>> Verizon a close second, and Cingular far behind and struggling to catch
>> up. Furthermore, Sprint and Verizon
>>
>> Cingular took the Telephia data, found some time periods, in some areas,
>> where they had fewer dropped calls, and has built a whole advertising
>> campaign on this highly questionable data. The real question is whether
>> anyone actually believes any of it, and based on Cingular's gross
>> addition numbers there are people that fall for it, but based on their
>> churn numbers, these people eventually figure out that it's all bull.
>>
>> The most amusing adjudication on advertising claims came from the
>> National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus.
>> They rejected Cingular's claims of having the most business customers,
>> and of offering the widest range of business services, but stated that
>> Cingular had proved it's claim of having the fastest national wireless
>> data network. Come again? With HSDPA slowly being rolled out (it wasn't
>> even available in New York City when this "finding" came out, and with
>> HSDPA no faster than EV-DO rev 0 (though with lower latency), how did
>> they come up with this gem? Don't you at least need to cover the largest
>> metropolitan areas to be able to claim that you have a national network?
>
>Sorry for following up on my own post, but I found the HSDPA versus
>EV-DO speed test I was looking for at
>"http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1916283,00.asp"
>
>Their conclusion: "For now, both Sprint and Verizon have the upper hand
>when it comes to high-speed data."
You're beating an out of date drum -- those were tests run over six
months ago, just after the HSDPA network was first turned on and was
still throttled down. Both GPRS and EGPRS(EDGE) were likewise throttled
at first, with full speed turned on a few months later.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 07-06-2006, 06:48 PM #8Mij AdyawGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
Cingular needs to stop the false advertising. It is very misleading.
"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 05:56:53 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
> wrote in <[email protected]>:
>
>>"http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/07/04/competitors_seek_an_end_to_legal_fight_on_ad_claims/"
>>
>>This is an interesting article, as it's the first time, AFAIK, that the
>>contents of the letter that Telephia sent to the other carriers, were
>>revealed.
>>
>>1) Telephia never claimed that Cingular had the fewest dropped calls,
>>and in fact never analyzes its own data.
>>
>>2) Telephia did state that is some markets, in some time periods,
>>Cingular had fewer dropped calls, a far cry from what Cingular is now
>>advertising, and a claim that other carriers could probably also
>>legitimately use in their own advertising.
>>
>>3. Telephia used a GSM phone with an external antenna for its tests, and
>> Sprint claims that this taints the results because most phones offered
>>b Cingular don't have an external antenna.
>>
>>4. The areas where Telephia collected their data are not representative
>>of average users (according to Sprint, Telephia did their data
>>collection on major highways).
>>
>>Of course neither Cingular nor Telephia will release their data, which
>>pretty much assures that the data is highly suspect.
>
> Likewise other carriers, especially Verizon, which relied only on its
> own internal testing (thus lacking any credibility whatsoever).
>
> --
> Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 07-06-2006, 06:49 PM #9Mij AdyawGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
I do not believe that this is true. Verizon has the best network coverage.
"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:53:44 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
> wrote in <[email protected]>:
>
>>DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
>>
>>> The most interesting part was "a high-stakes legal bid to claim bragging
>>> rights to the best wireless network, a key selling point for consumers
>>> purchasing wireless service."
>>
>>That statement is especially interesting when you consider that every
>>independent study, and all industry experts, agree that Verizon, rather
>>than the two carriers battling this out, has the best network in terms
>>of coverage. [SNIP rest of propaganda]
>
> That's simply not true, a gross distortion of what's been published.
>
> Cingular's GSM network coverage is at least as good as CDMA network
> coverage by Verizon, if not better.
>
> --
> Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 07-06-2006, 08:08 PM #10John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:48:42 -0700, "Mij Adyaw" <[email protected]>
wrote in <Jbirg.10476$Nv.957@fed1read10>:
>Cingular needs to stop the false advertising. It is very misleading.
Likewise the other carriers. Notably the absurd "Can you hear me now?"
campaign.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 07-06-2006, 08:51 PM #11PC MedicGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
> Of course neither Cingular nor Telephia will release their data, which
> pretty much assures that the data is highly suspect.
The fact that my family (4 handsets, 3 different models) constantly
experiences dropped calls on our Cingular account in several parts of our
area (Virginia Beach - Hampton Roads) tells me the data is highly suspect!
After complaing about this to a supervisor a couple weeks ago they presented
me some offers (free phones, etc) to reconsider my possibly leaving them for
another carrier and when I expressed they weren't offering much I was
told... "well take some time to think about it and I will give you a call
next Tuesday" That was now two weeks ago and no call.
I know from experience what their dropped calls are like, wonder what their
dropped customer rate is?
- 07-06-2006, 08:52 PM #12SMSGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
Mij Adyaw wrote:
> Cingular needs to stop the false advertising. It is very misleading.
It doesn't matter to them, as long as it achieves the desired result.
Repeat a lie often enough, and people believe it. What Cingular has done
is to take the highly questionable dropped call data, and declared that
the benchmark for the "best network" is the fewest dropped calls. Of
course the latter is their opinion, while Telephia did concede that in
some markets, during some time periods, Cingular had less dropped calls
than the competition (left unsaid was that during some time periods, in
some markets, Cingular must have had more dropped calls than the
competition).
Contrast Cingular's claims, to those of Verizon. Verizon's claims have
been backed up by every independent survey, surveys that used a very
large sample size, and wide geographic coverage.
- 07-06-2006, 08:55 PM #13SMSGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
Mij Adyaw wrote:
> I do not believe that this is true. Verizon has the best network coverage.
CDMA coverage is about 1.5x that of GSM, in terms of area covered. In
terms of population covered, the two are about equal, because the number
of rural customers is so small. Add AMPS to the equation (and a tri-mode
phone), and the geographic area covered by CDMA/AMPS is nearly an order
of magnitude greater.
For people that never leave the city, they'll probably not notice any
difference between CDMA and GSM, or CDMA/AMPS and GSM, but for many
people, that travel for business or leisure, there is a huge difference.
- 07-06-2006, 10:13 PM #14John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:55:18 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>Mij Adyaw wrote:
>> I do not believe that this is true. Verizon has the best network coverage.
>
>CDMA coverage is about 1.5x that of GSM, in terms of area covered. In
>terms of population covered, the two are about equal, because the number
>of rural customers is so small. ...
Simply not true. See my prior post for GSM coverage maps.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 07-06-2006, 10:13 PM #15John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:52:14 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>Contrast Cingular's claims, to those of Verizon. Verizon's claims ...
.... are based solely on its own internal tests, and thus have no
credibility at all.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
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