Metro PCS Question

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In <[email protected]> on 04 Feb 2006 04:14:34 GMT,
John Serafin <[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] (Rahul Dhesi) writes:
>
>>Another odd thing. After I declined the above offer, and they cancelled
>>my account, my Motorola mobile instantly erased all its phonebook
>>entries. What a malicious way to get rid of a customer.
>
>I assume that you had completed your contract and the phone belonged to
>you, and that, in any case, the phonebook entries were your property,
>not the phone companys.
>
>So how is that different from some script kiddie deleting a file from
>someone else's computer?
>
>Also, can phone companies download address books, or just delete them?

Neither. Sheesh.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://NavasGroup.com/>

---

› See More: Metro PCS Question

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In <[email protected]> on Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:59:30
-0800, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

>I still shudder when I think of my year of hell with Cingular.

Reflected in your ongoing vendetta.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://NavasGroup.com/>

I wrote:

>Another odd thing. After I declined the above offer, and they
>cancelled my account, my Motorola mobile instantly erased all its
>phonebook entries. What a malicious way to get rid of a customer.

A number of people questioned this in follow-ups, so let me give you
more details. On the phone to Pacific Bell Mobile Services (PBMS), I
explained that I wanted to cancel because PBMS had cheated me twice.
First, when I originally bought the phone from Costco and looked at
PBMS's advertising flyers, there was no mention of any setup fee for the
plan for which I was signing up, only a monthly free. PBMS had
insisted, however, that no matter what the advertising said, there would
be a $14 setup fee, and my only choice was to not sign up. I didn't
want to go to the trouble of returning my phone to Costco, and $14 is
not a lot, so I accepted the unadvertised fee. Then, after my service
started, I discovered that in order to check voicemail from a land line
I would be required to pay a monthly $5 fee which too was nowhere
mentioned in the advertising. Again PMBS insisted that I would have to
pay the fee, advertised or not, because this was an optional service.
(Like buying a car and finding that the windshield wipers was an
option.) This was a few months into my one-year contract.

Not wanting to continue being cheated, and being fully aware that I
would be asked to pay a $150 termination fee, I called PBMS and
requested that my service be cancelled. I suggested to PBMS that, since
I was cancelling due to PBMS's insistence on adding multiple
unadvertised fees, no cancellation fee should be charged. PBMS insisted
that it had done nothing wrong. So I gave PBMS two choices: (a) charge
me that termination fee and lose me forever as a customer, or (b) not
charge me the termination fee and preserve the possibility of us doing
business together in the future should I find that PBMS had services
that I needed and that would be offered in an ethical manner. PBMS
chose (a).

About five minutes after this conversation terminated, I decided to look
up phonebook entries in my Motorola PBMS phone and enter them into my
new Sprint PCS phone. I began to reach for the Motorola PBMS phone.
Before I could do so, I noticed its display backlight came on, and the
display switched to saying "No service". I picked up the phone, went to
the phonebook menu, and it was all empty.

Before this, I had had complete loss of network connectivity more than
once, and had never lost any information from the phone. Now, today,
suddenly, as soon as the phone lost connectivity, the phonebook entries
all disappeared.

Mobile phones don't suddenly lose all their phonebook entries just
because the network no longer provides service. But various models of
mobile phones do recognize antitheft signals from the network provider.
The ethical network provider will, of course, not send such a signal if
the service is merely being cancelled.

I concluded that the erasure of the phonebook entries was yet another
unadvertised fee. PBMS had already established a record of deceptive
behavior, so this was an easy conclusion. Of course, I have no way of
proving the factual correctness of this conclusion -- but it's the only
reasonable logical conclusion. In the unlikely event that PBMS (now
Cingular) disagrees and sues me for libel, I will have an opportunity to
subpoena its internal records and verify exactly what signal PBMS sent
to my phone to cause the erasure of the phonebook.
--
Rahul

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Rahul Dhesi) wrote:

> About five minutes after this conversation terminated, I decided to look
> up phonebook entries in my Motorola PBMS phone and enter them into my
> new Sprint PCS phone. I began to reach for the Motorola PBMS phone.
> Before I could do so, I noticed its display backlight came on, and the
> display switched to saying "No service". I picked up the phone, went to
> the phonebook menu, and it was all empty.

This is standard procedure. When you report a lost phone, or cancel
service, the very first thing they do is nuke the SIM. That means
everything gets wiped, and you might as well throw the SIM away.

--
John Higdon | Email Address Valid
+1 408 266 4400 | Sana Zay, CA

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Rahul Dhesi) wrote:

> So I gave PBMS two choices: (a) charge
> me that termination fee and lose me forever as a customer, or (b) not
> charge me the termination fee and preserve the possibility of us doing
> business together in the future should I find that PBMS had services
> that I needed and that would be offered in an ethical manner. PBMS
> chose (a).

Did you speak to "Andy"? When you get insistent and demand (or strongly
suggest) that the company make some sort of exception to its policies,
you end up speaking to "Andy". It is "Andy's" job to tell you, in such a
way that you give up, that Cingular absolutely, positively, cannot and
will not give in in any way...and that you just need to accept it.

A note on that: I have two well-placed contacts at Cingular, who can
actually override that nonsense. I have used their influence twice since
1996 to reverse "Andy" on matters that would have been fatal to my
continued use of that service. So it CAN be done...but it ain't easy.

--
John Higdon | Email Address Valid
+1 408 266 4400 | Sana Zay, CA

Rahul Dhesi wrote:

> I concluded that the erasure of the phonebook entries was yet another
> unadvertised fee. PBMS had already established a record of deceptive
> behavior, so this was an easy conclusion. Of course, I have no way of
> proving the factual correctness of this conclusion -- but it's the only
> reasonable logical conclusion. In the unlikely event that PBMS (now
> Cingular) disagrees and sues me for libel, I will have an opportunity to
> subpoena its internal records and verify exactly what signal PBMS sent
> to my phone to cause the erasure of the phonebook.

Some carriers can back-up and restore the phone book over the air on
some models, but I don't believe that this was possible back then.

I know that when I was in Alaska, one guy at the airport was going crazy
because since there was no service in Alaska he was locked out of his
phone book. Later someone said that if you wait a few minutes, the phone
lets you into the phone book despite no service. This was on a Motorola
Nextel phone.

John Higdon wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Rahul Dhesi) wrote:
>
>> About five minutes after this conversation terminated, I decided to look
>> up phonebook entries in my Motorola PBMS phone and enter them into my
>> new Sprint PCS phone. I began to reach for the Motorola PBMS phone.
>> Before I could do so, I noticed its display backlight came on, and the
>> display switched to saying "No service". I picked up the phone, went to
>> the phonebook menu, and it was all empty.
>
> This is standard procedure. When you report a lost phone, or cancel
> service, the very first thing they do is nuke the SIM. That means
> everything gets wiped, and you might as well throw the SIM away.

That makes sense, but on one of my Motorola phones you have the choice
of storing your phone book entries on the SIM or in the phone's memory.
I always thought it was better to store them on the SIM so you could
move the SIM to a new phone. I guess not!

John Higdon wrote:

> A note on that: I have two well-placed contacts at Cingular, who can
> actually override that nonsense. I have used their influence twice since
> 1996 to reverse "Andy" on matters that would have been fatal to my
> continued use of that service. So it CAN be done...but it ain't easy.

I too have a well-placed contact at Cingular, but most people don't have
that luxury.

I thought it rather amusing when I told this contact about many people
wanting GAIT phones, that she suggested that I forward their contact
information to her, and that she would take care of them. The only way I
got this contact was after I e-mailed the public spokesperson for
Cingular's western region, and she put me in touch with this other
individual in the "office of the president." About a dozen of so people
went through me and got their GAIT phones. But how the heck did I become
one of the only conduits to obtain GAIT handsets and service in the
western region? Cingular stores, telesales, and the web site had no
information at all.

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In <[email protected]> on Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:21:22 +0000 (UTC),
[email protected] (Rahul Dhesi) wrote:

>About five minutes after this conversation terminated, I decided to look
>up phonebook entries in my Motorola PBMS phone and enter them into my
>new Sprint PCS phone. I began to reach for the Motorola PBMS phone.
>Before I could do so, I noticed its display backlight came on, and the
>display switched to saying "No service".

That's not how it works with GSM. Service termination is a simple matter of
disabling the particular SIM so that the network rejects it for normal
activities, not the network, not the phone. Calls to 911 (as mandated by the
FCC) and 611 (customer service) are still possible.

That sounds like some sort of hardware fault in the phone. The display may
have come on as a result of a spontaneous reboot, which sometimes happens.

>I picked up the phone, went to
>the phonebook menu, and it was all empty.

Phone memory or SIM memory? If phone memory, perhaps the phone crashed and
did a master reset. It's very unlikely for a SIM to be erased inadvertently.

>Before this, I had had complete loss of network connectivity more than
>once, and had never lost any information from the phone. Now, today,
>suddenly, as soon as the phone lost connectivity, the phonebook entries
>all disappeared.
>
>Mobile phones don't suddenly lose all their phonebook entries just
>because the network no longer provides service. But various models of
>mobile phones do recognize antitheft signals from the network provider.
>The ethical network provider will, of course, not send such a signal if
>the service is merely being cancelled.

What "antitheft signals?" GSM antitheft is handled by blacklisting the phone
on the network.

>I concluded that the erasure of the phonebook entries was yet another
>unadvertised fee.

I think that's an unwarranted conclusion.

>PBMS had already established a record of deceptive
>behavior, so this was an easy conclusion.

What "deceptive behavior?"

>Of course, I have no way of
>proving the factual correctness of this conclusion -- but it's the only
>reasonable logical conclusion.

I disagree. Other possibilities are much more likely.

>In the unlikely event that PBMS (now
>Cingular) disagrees and sues me for libel,

I doubt that Cingular cares about this.

>I will have an opportunity to
>subpoena its internal records and verify exactly what signal PBMS sent
>to my phone to cause the erasure of the phonebook.

You almost certain would be wasting your time and money.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://NavasGroup.com/>

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In <[email protected]> on Sat, 04 Feb
2006 11:33:11 -0800, John Higdon <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Rahul Dhesi) wrote:
>
>> About five minutes after this conversation terminated, I decided to look
>> up phonebook entries in my Motorola PBMS phone and enter them into my
>> new Sprint PCS phone. I began to reach for the Motorola PBMS phone.
>> Before I could do so, I noticed its display backlight came on, and the
>> display switched to saying "No service". I picked up the phone, went to
>> the phonebook menu, and it was all empty.
>
>This is standard procedure. When you report a lost phone, or cancel
>service, the very first thing they do is nuke the SIM. That means
>everything gets wiped, and you might as well throw the SIM away.

Not true.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://NavasGroup.com/>

[POSTED TO ba.internet - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 04 Feb
2006 11:39:47 -0800, John Higdon <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Rahul Dhesi) wrote:
>
>> So I gave PBMS two choices: (a) charge
>> me that termination fee and lose me forever as a customer, or (b) not
>> charge me the termination fee and preserve the possibility of us doing
>> business together in the future should I find that PBMS had services
>> that I needed and that would be offered in an ethical manner. PBMS
>> chose (a).
>
>Did you speak to "Andy"? When you get insistent and demand (or strongly
>suggest) that the company make some sort of exception to its policies,
>you end up speaking to "Andy". It is "Andy's" job to tell you, in such a
>way that you give up, that Cingular absolutely, positively, cannot and
>will not give in in any way...and that you just need to accept it.
>
>A note on that: I have two well-placed contacts at Cingular, who can
>actually override that nonsense. I have used their influence twice since
>1996 to reverse "Andy" on matters that would have been fatal to my
>continued use of that service. So it CAN be done...but it ain't easy.

Get serious. Above Customer Care is "Escalations," and above that is the
"Office of the President." I know because I've dealt with all those levels.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://NavasGroup.com/>

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In <[email protected]> on Sat, 04 Feb 2006 11:42:06
-0800, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

>Rahul Dhesi wrote:
>
>> I concluded that the erasure of the phonebook entries was yet another
>> unadvertised fee. PBMS had already established a record of deceptive
>> behavior, so this was an easy conclusion. Of course, I have no way of
>> proving the factual correctness of this conclusion -- but it's the only
>> reasonable logical conclusion. In the unlikely event that PBMS (now
>> Cingular) disagrees and sues me for libel, I will have an opportunity to
>> subpoena its internal records and verify exactly what signal PBMS sent
>> to my phone to cause the erasure of the phonebook.
>
>Some carriers can back-up and restore the phone book over the air on
>some models, but I don't believe that this was possible back then.

No mystery or conspiracy in that -- used to be called SyncML, now called Open
Mobile Alliance Data Synchronization and Device Management.
<http://www.openmobilealliance.org/tech/affiliates/syncml/syncmlindex.html>

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://NavasGroup.com/>