I can wait, and I very well might I'm not dead set on it, and may decide to wait for iPhone gen 2...


cheers

Originally Posted by northerner

i'll definitely be checking out the iphone when it hits later this summer (i admit i'm a mac/apple fan. cheers

Not a fan and have predicted a big belly flop.

Aside from all the weaknesses of the product, do the math ... Apple has ONE sales distribution channel for this phone and that is Cingulbar. Cingulbar has committed to sell 20 MILLION of these puppies. That's 20% of their subscriber base. God himself could design a phone from heaven and he wouldn't get 20% of Cingular's total subscriber base to go out and buy it.

If you absolutely must have this thing, make sure you live in a warm climate (you won't be able to use it in the winter in cool climates) and WAIT until the price drops (and drop it will). Supply and demand my friend. Apple is manufacturing 20 MILLION of these things with the Cingulbar/AT&T branding and there is no way Cingulbar/AT&T can sell that many of them to their subscribers. Sooner or later, the prices on this puppy are gonna be rock bottom.

yeah... extremely steep

ebay prices seem more reasonable (400-600 range)...

but in some cases, might be cheaper to get from cingular (mine cost me 299, from an AD though, not official orange store), and pay the deactivation fee... assuming it can be unlocked for other carriers.... which i'm sure it can, just need to find out how...

but the point is moot since i'm assuming BB users love their BB's, and wouldn't want to switch to a WM device if they can avoid it....

if there'd have been a BB with wi-fi, 3G and touchscreen, i might have gotten a BB instead of a 8525 running WM5.0.... since i'm not a super huge MS fan....

i'll definitely be checking out the iphone when it hits later this summer (i admit i'm a mac/apple fan )


cheers

Originally Posted by northerner

Sure there is... HTC TyTN. Bunch of unlocked ones on ebay right now. Even some unlocked 8525s, if you don't mind the orange logo. cheers

Wow. You are indeed right. I just Googled the HTC TyTN and found it available on Amazon. Price is pretty steep though ...

Amazon.com: HTC TyTN PDA Silver Smartphone (Unlocked): Cell Phones & Service

Originally Posted by wirelessfan

Not sure that there is an unbranded version of this phone for the general public ... assuming that this particular phone totally floats your boat.

TMo customers probably would want to look at the SDA (Unsupported Browser)

Sure there is... HTC TyTN. Bunch of unlocked ones on ebay right now. Even some unlocked 8525s, if you don't mind the orange logo.


Quad band GSM, Tri Band UMTS/3G, Wi-Fi, touchscreen, scroll wheel, full qwerty, microSD, infrared, bluetooth 2.0, .... the list goes on and on.... Granted it's not cheap, but it has all the features people are crying for, and with Direct Push and an exchange server, bingo direct emails (maybe not quite as good as Blackberries prioprietary method, but not that far off....). I've already tried out the Direct Push through my companies exchange server (even though I don't need the real time delivery, and it's actually a bit annoying, especially there isn't yet any spam filters for the mobile outlook stuff), but it worked rather well. I don't have any Blackberry experience, so take this with a grain of salt if you wish.


cheers

Originally Posted by northerner

So get an unlocked version and use it on T-mobile.

Not sure that there is an unbranded version of this phone for the general public ... assuming that this particular phone totally floats your boat.

TMo customers probably would want to look at the SDA (Unsupported Browser)

Originally Posted by wirelessfan

Not everyone uses Cingulbar.

So get an unlocked version and use it on T-mobile.

Originally Posted by northerner

So for BB users that are disappointed with the 8800's lack of Wi-Fi - why wouldn't they look towards something like the Cingular 8525 for a Wi-Fi capable device? And it's 3G, has full slide out QWERTY keyboard. And granted, MS Direct Push might not be as slick as Blackberry's Push technology, it's still a means of having push email, assuming your company support push through it's exchange server.
peace

Not everyone uses Cingulbar.

So for BB users that are disappointed with the 8800's lack of Wi-Fi - why wouldn't they look towards something like the Cingular 8525 for a Wi-Fi capable device? And it's 3G, has full slide out QWERTY keyboard. And granted, MS Direct Push might not be as slick as Blackberry's Push technology, it's still a means of having push email, assuming your company support push through it's exchange server.


peace

Originally Posted by royrapoport

Neither the 8100 nor the 8800 are wifi-capable.

Yet another flaw for the Blackberry platform. RIM is attempting to position themselves as the high-end communication device provider yet they keep consistently letting their best client prospects down.

If you want to market the most cutting-edge mobile communication devices available, and make it super indispensible for the traveling executive, you have to incorporate WiFi. I can forgive not having a camera, but not having WiFi is just inexcusable.

When are RIM's executives going to get out of the mindframe that they manufacture email game devices and come into the world of today's executive?

I remember a story about an executive from Rolex. He was hosting a dinner party and someone seeking to make small talk asked him how things were in the "watch business." The Rolex executive immediately replied: "I have no idea, I'm not in the watch business." His dinner guest replied ... "Well I don't understand, you work for Rolex." To which the Rolex executive replied, "Yes but Rolex is not a watch maker, we are a fine jewelery maker."

The moral of the story is that you need to know who you are and who your customers are. If your customers are a bunch of compulsive nuts who run around neurotically checking email every 20 seconds, that's not a strategy for long term success. If your strategy is to produce the finest mobile communication devices and market them to a demanding clientele who require email and a host of other communication services, then RIM will be wildly successful. Unfortunately I'm not seeing that RIM knows who they are yet nor how to market themselves to who their customers should be.

Neither the 8100 nor the 8800 are wifi-capable. The 8800 seems to be available now, if we can believe Cingular's website.

Are either the Pearl or the 8800 Wi-Fi capable?
When is the 8800 available for Cingular?

Originally Posted by royrapoport

I can't give you objective criteria why the RIM devices are the best thing to get, and I fear you may be misreading my lack of interest in persuading you for a lack of willingness to discuss my impressions with you. I like them.

This is why RIM will probably always be a niche manufacturer. Blackberrys don't appeal to emotion, logic or reason, they just appeal to a cult of people mostly who have a fetish about the urge to constantly and endlessly "play" with email -- something most people just don't get anymore than they'd get their kooky neighbor who constantly washes the car all the time even when the car doesn't need it; or does any other overly compulsive (anal) type of behavior.

By the way, when I say "playing" with email, that's how most people view Blackberrys -- game devices for people who "play" with email. Unless you are some sort of special commodities trader and need constant price updates to do your job, few have the need to be constantly wired to an email game machine 24/7. Is email important to me? Sure. I check it a few times a day. And I have a busy, pressure-filled job. But I don't see the need to do email 24/7. Who gets anything that important? Indeed, my current email is so sophisticated that IF something important comes in from someone important, I receive a page alerting me to the email's presence in my inbox. This process is far more efficient than sitting on an email game machine and processing spam all day. I've long believed my current email is better than Blackberry's enterprise server email system (BESE). With BESE, you get ALL your email pushed to you. Yeaahhh, send me more of those Viagra and free refi mortgage ads! LOL. My email filters and proioritizes my email. If it requires my immediate attention, I'm paged. None of Blackberry's services work that well.

If Blackberry ever hopes to jump the line between being the provider of a cult product and a serious manufacturer of high-end communication devices, they are going to shed their "cult" image and market to a broader range. They were on the right track with the Pearl. Now they are sliding back into niche-ville.

Since I've been studying the Pearl pretty intensively, perhaps you could offer a few examples as to why the 8800 is significantly better than the Pearl to help people unversed with RIM-ology to better see what you seem to see so clearly.

I won't, and I can't. I'd say that for the vast majority of sane people out there, the Pearl's a better choice. For me, the 8800 is slightly better (because I'm guaranteed support of it at work, and because I fit into the environment better with it), but unless you work for my employer (or others like it), I'd really suggest you get the Pearl (if you get a RIM device at all).

I can't give you objective criteria why the RIM devices are the best thing to get, and I fear you may be misreading my lack of interest in persuading you for a lack of willingness to discuss my impressions with you. I like them. They work well for me -- better than I'd have expected before I started using them.

I still bought my fiancee a Pearl and I'd still go for a Pearl rather than an 8800 given the same price, for all but the most email-heavy applications.

Originally Posted by royrapoport

On a more serious note, I'd say that of RIM's devices other than the Pearl, the 8800 is the coolest.

I've traditionally not been impressed with Blackberry's devices because I'm a "form factor" kinda guy. If the form factor doesn't grab me right away, I usually am not interested in looking deeper into the product. Blackberry's traditional form factors have been far too large and way too plastic-ikky. The people who wore them on their belt looked like total geeks. Then along came the Pearl and changed that image. Now we see RIM gravitating back to a geekier image.

My last post questioned the design of the 8800 as "too small to be an effective computer and too large to be an effective phone (and that) forcing two communication devices into one (does) not really play to the best of either in the process." I believe this is a summation that a lot of people have about Blackberrys ... too big, too geeky, not an effective computer, not a practical phone. I'm still lost as to how something that doesn't make a great computer or a great phone but just makes a lot of compromises to force two uniquely different form factors and functions into a silly sized product makes sense. No one can explain this and I seem to get responses that say "you don't belong here" or "this product isn't for you" rather than either:

a.) No what you aren't seeing is .... blah, blah, blah ...

or...

b.) You're right, the combined functions of a too small computer and a too large phone really isn't the greatest combinations of two products into one but we like it anyway even if it doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by royrapoport

I also know a bunch of really hot fashion phones I would say are cool. The 8800? Definitely, completely, most assuredly not cool. It's the least uncool of RIM's business devices. That's as far as I'd go.

Still waiting to understand why.

Since I've been studying the Pearl pretty intensively, perhaps you could offer a few examples as to why the 8800 is significantly better than the Pearl to help people unversed with RIM-ology to better see what you seem to see so clearly.