Its NOT CAPITALISM ITS called doing predatory business running rampant without regulation

It starts by them doing a credit check not to see if you can pay the monthly bill because your paying in advance, if you had a Monthly plan for lets say a 500 minute monthly cutoff and your paying a month in advance there would not need to be any credit check in the first place! Unfortunately FOR US CUSTOMERS, IT WOULD COST THEM TO MUCH TO HAVE A PLAN LIKE THAT, NO that credit check is for two very important profit sources, one to cover any unforeseen vcasting CHARGES or such and of course for those famous monthly minute overages

So lets have a recap

Your asked to do a credit check for unforeseen charges WHY is there no duplicate plan with the ability to disable these unforeseen charges?
hit your 500 minutes and thats it SIMPLE want the ability then do a credit check SOUND FAIR?

No what they do is create a whole new cash cow sector to prey on, known as the prepaid consumer market where rates are through the roof and now somehow your not entitled to any of their normal plans because of unforeseen charges and at the same time these providers do not let you cap or disable THEM.

When someone gives me a hard time or
gets wise with me LATELY I say go VCAST yourself!
hey, its clean and AT THE SAME TIME nasty.

JMO

Originally Posted by Robb4248

but it would drop the demand of a particular model of phone world wide, forcing reduce in manufacturing and increase in prices for the phones, which will also be passed onto you.

Well apparently it is you that knows little about capitalism and business. What it would do if force the companies to produce better cheaper phones that more people would want. They would not reduce manufacturing and increase phone price because they would be cutting their own throats. If demand goes down you offer the consumer what they want which would be new better phones.

Originally Posted by tavenger5

I think you need a prepaid plan my friend. hah. You can buy the phone in a plastic sealed container at wal-mart or best buy and pay as you go. No contracts, you won't go over on min because you don't have 'minutes' till you pay for them! wowie!

At crazy insane rates my friend, to make their normal cartel like provider plans seem NOT TO BAD compared to prepaid.

Glad you bought that up thats another snake game! Thats how they prey on lower income avg folk with so so credit, there shouldn't even be a credit check on those people and they should be able to get a plan at normal rates! like me and you, thats why they do not provide a locked in set of minutes per month PLAN that WON'T let go over, this provides them with the green light to get you with overages and to vcast YOU and such, THATS WHY THEY NEED A CREDIT CHECK because if you had a plan lets say for 500 minutes free nights and weekends etc, and once you hit 500 thats it make the rest during your free period, BUT THATS NOT GOING TO PRODUCE THE AMOUNT OF INCOME IT TAKES TO SUPPORT THE insanely bloated CEO AND RELATED BOARD SALARY'S, do a Google on 1000 dollar cell phone bills, with a shutoff on minutes plans that could never happen

Everyone should be entitled to a monthly cap on minute plans, that are available at the same rate that normal plans are today just pay a month in advance SOUND FAIR? because there is no difference in the actual product, and a law should be passed ASAP giving EVERYONE the right to use your unused minutes no matter what month as long as your account is active, I don't know how they pulled this off in the first place back then, they are willing to give you a set of minutes one month and charge you as if you used them all, but not let you use any you have not used the next month

I hear justs don't sign the contract, THATS HARD FOR MOST AVG EVERYDAY FOLK BECAUSE THEY BASIClY RUN THE SAME CARTEL PLAYBOOK

and now that ATT&T bought Cingular Wireless thats one less chance of a provider Venturing outside the gameplan

I think you need a prepaid plan my friend. hah. You can buy the phone in a plastic sealed container at wal-mart or best buy and pay as you go. No contracts, you won't go over on min because you don't have 'minutes' till you pay for them! wowie!

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You wrote I'm honestly tired of dealing with your malformed and repetitive "facts".

what your really tired of is the truth!

and as I said which you know is fact the razor is was being offered for $109 it might be 119 or somthing regularly but that was deal of the day yesterday
if phones where being sold at main stream stores like Best Buy, walmart etc
cell phone providers would lose millions in enormous markups profits and also show what fools we have been

I was told over and over agin its either two years or no discount on the over priced phones available to me

Please I would like to hear from someone who was able to get a 1 year cell phone contract that received a free or discounted phone upon sign up I was always told they didn't even have them !any body out their preferably relating to a 1 year Verizon contract without any restrictions and full phone discount?

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Originally Posted by sat110

SO SO, CELLPHONE INDUSTRY SPIN YOU COULD DO BETTER! UNFORTUNATELY I JUST CAME FROM TIGER DIRECT WHERE THE RAZOR IS AVAILABLE FOR $109 BRAND NEW STRAIGHT UP, TRY GETTING THAT PRICE OUT YOUR PROVIDER PAYING RETAIL, HELL EVEN WITH A SO CALLED DISCOUNT

UNFORTUNATELY VERIZON DOESN'T PLAY NICE WITH PHONES BOUGHT ELSEWHERE WONDER WHY?

CAN YOU SAY CEO COMPENSATION? AND RETIREMENT PACKAGE
THE CARDS ARE STACKED AGAINST US REGULAR EVERY DAY CELL PHONE CUSTOMERS PERIOD

TIAF SIR

So let's say the cards are stacked against us, so what ? It's a business, plain and simple. There is no law that a business has to "play nice". So Verizon requires you to use one of THEIR phones, so what ? Deal with it. If you don't like it, then don't own a cell phone ?

Originally Posted by Robb4248

How many times do I have to say HARDWARE?



1. They get the phones for a certain rate. They use their contracts as a guaranteed form of income, so they give you the phone cheaper.
2. The contract is there to prevent that.



Provider to provider... it all differs. T-Mobile offers T-Mobile web and My Favs, which benefit you! Why get rid of those? Most CDMA phones however have very bulky software that is created by the provider.



1. Too costly for them to be used "whenever"
2. You pay for them, but you should have read the contract...
3. You are charged a flat rate as long as you don't go over. IT'S JUST LIKE SHIPPING A FLAT RATE PACKAGE!!!

SO SO, CELLPHONE INDUSTRY SPIN YOU COULD DO BETTER! UNFORTUNATELY I JUST CAME FROM TIGER DIRECT WHERE THE RAZOR IS AVAILABLE FOR $109 BRAND NEW STRAIGHT UP, TRY GETTING THAT PRICE OUT YOUR PROVIDER PAYING RETAIL, HELL EVEN WITH A SO CALLED DISCOUNT

UNFORTUNATELY VERIZON DOESN'T PLAY NICE WITH PHONES BOUGHT ELSEWHERE WONDER WHY?

CAN YOU SAY CEO COMPENSATION? AND RETIREMENT PACKAGE
THE CARDS ARE STACKED AGAINST US REGULAR EVERY DAY CELL PHONE CUSTOMERS PERIOD

TIAF SIR

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Originally Posted by tavenger5

Great discussion!

I think your logic is slightly off though JMO... Anything new is going to be complicated at first. There's going to be different formats and different companies competing for customers.

The companies want to make it as simple as possible while maximizing profit. Do you really think that they want it to be complicated? No, complication costs more money.

Lets say that you want to be part of a club. This club is exclusive and you have to pay to be a part of it. It also has special gear that you must use; gear that won't work outside the club. You must sign a contract, and if you don't meet up to your obligation you pay a fine, or are kicked out.

Unfortunately that's how it is right now with cell phone companies. In their efforts to tame a fickle customer base, rapidly changing technology, and keep things simple this is what has to be done. Yes, things may cost more, but in the end things will even out. (just like PC's did)

IMO, suing because you don't agree with a big company isn't the answer.

No! its the complete opposite of what you say above! they do want to make it complicated,and work constantly at keeping it that way , it is the only way to maximize outrages profit, and they have been around awhile NOW and will never change unless forced to, common man! would you want to give up a cash cow dream playing feild? if this cell phone industry had its way today you would not be able to keep your cell phone number from provider to provider

Example:Imagine laying out almost 700.00 for an iphone and then not being happy with ATT&T for whatever reason like service, what do you do
cancel service you probably have a contract for years? and then do what with the Iphone you own? eat It you can't use it with any other another provider!

Personally I don't have a problem with capitalism, problem is this is not capitalism Customers want a fair playing field, I keep hearing around here, don't like the way things are in the cell phone business don't use a cell phone, all the providers basically act and demand the same like a cartel, Muti year contracts, propertiery phones and famously use it or lose monthly minutes YET go over your monthly minutes and prepare to pay up the kazoo

You sound like a nice person but the facts are the facts

Basic rights all cellphone customers should have

!: the right to use a purchased Phone with any provider
(keep the discount on the phone, just change the provider software)

2: The right to sign without/or with a contract (Monthly like a home phone)
(keep the discount on the phone as a premium for this. its a charade anyway)
should the service suck at any time you just transfer at the end of the month to another who cares

3: The right to to completely remove cell phone software crap like vcast and I'm sure other providers have likewise tunnels into their phones

4:The right to use your unused monthly minutes WITHOUT ANY SPECIAL PLAN OR RESTRICTIONS (after all YOU paid for them right?)
either carry over your unused monthly minutes or subtract the money minutes off the bill, YOU CAN BET THEY WILL CARRY THOSE OVER NO PROB

Their is no reason why they can't start producing Cell Phone that can be used regardless of provider, this can easily be accomplished by simply upgrading to that provider's internal cellphone software, the technology is their right now!

JMO

Originally Posted by Robb4248

The world also operates on GSM/TDMA/CDMA technology, ALL OF THEM, not just one (GSM/CDMA being the most frequently encountered).

And UMTS, W-CDMA, the new HSDPA data for GSM...

Great discussion!

I think your logic is slightly off though JMO... Anything new is going to be complicated at first. There's going to be different formats and different companies competing for customers.

The companies want to make it as simple as possible while maximizing profit. Do you really think that they want it to be complicated? No, complication costs more money.

Lets say that you want to be part of a club. This club is exclusive and you have to pay to be a part of it. It also has special gear that you must use; gear that won't work outside the club. You must sign a contract, and if you don't meet up to your obligation you pay a fine, or are kicked out.

Unfortunately that's how it is right now with cell phone companies. In their efforts to tame a fickle customer base, rapidly changing technology, and keep things simple this is what has to be done. Yes, things may cost more, but in the end things will even out. (just like PC's did)

IMO, suing because you don't agree with a big company isn't the answer.

Originally Posted by Robb4248

Nope, only you for thinking that. I'm a Network Administrator, Web master, and a Repossession Agent (odd combo, no? Don't believe me? I'll go outside and take a picture of my trucks right now.), not anything to do with cell phones. I honestly think that you should really think before posting. If you were a regular member of CPF, you would know that. Cell Phones are a hobby for me, NOT a career.



Did I say it was a bad idea? No.

If you remotely understood FCC Compliance Regulations and wireless specifications, you would understand that it would have to be either GSM, CDMA, or TDMA for EVERY CARRIER for this idea to work. GSM would be the easiest solution because of SIM cards. CDMA and TDMA carrier(s) would have to build new towers and tear down the old ones in order to make this work.

But wait, there's more. The world also operates on GSM/TDMA/CDMA technology, ALL OF THEM, not just one (GSM/CDMA being the most frequently encountered). If the US would be switching, this would drop the need for any cellphone band NOT being used. This is a world wide impact, not just the US. You have to look at the big picture.



So, in one sentence to clear this ALL up:

This idea is not feasible because not only would it cost millions (if not billions) of dollars per company to make the changes needed (that would be past onto you in bill increases), but it would drop the demand of a particular model of phone world wide, forcing reduce in manufacturing and increase in prices for the phones, which will also be passed onto you.

----------------------------
Hobby? you seem to be quite fluent in the phone industry for a hobby!
look I understand I'm beating a dead horse around here, not one avg everyday cell phone customer even read this tread I beat

I'll close it with this, brace yourself ONE DAY, the cell phone industry will be standardized in a few years and all the Spin and Jargon won't stop it
just like the lawsuit over the right to carry your Cell number from provider to provider, they "screamed" that could'nt be done as well

REMEMBER FAZING OUT FREON A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO?
The cell phone industry is complex because they made it that way they could make a standard phone tomorrow that you could carry from provider to provider (sounds a lot like heath Care doesn't it?

Know whats really 100% anti capitalism! not being able to buy a brand new cell phone lets say in a store like (walmart) know why? because the true outragest markup on these phones would be exposed overnight.

I have built complete P4 computers for less then most of these phones
Remember if you are an avg consumer like you say, I'm one of you, but man you certainly do not sound like one talking about the cell phone industry.

JMO

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