Craig <[email protected]> wrote in news:%dAgk.13634$cW3.3056
@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com:

> Sorry, I obviously wandered into a religious war. My mistake.
>
> -Craig
>

WE WILL ROOT YOU OUT AND STONE YOU....(c;

Craig wrote:
> Beer Drinking Dog wrote:
>> Craig wrote:
>>> Todd Allcock wrote:
>>>> At 19 Jul 2008 14:28:33 -0700 4phun wrote:
>>>>>> The big difference is the range of applications for the
>>>>>> Blackberry. I.e.
>>>>>> if you want to create/edit an Excel spreadsheet, create/edit a Word
>>>>>> document, or create/edit a Powerpoint document, you can do it on a
>>>>>> Blackberry, but not on an iPhone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But you're correct that a WinMo device has more capability than a
>>>>>> Blackberry, and far more capability than an iPhone.
>>>>> What moron is going to create a complex document or spreadsheet on a /
>>>>> smart phone/?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Very few- but many "morons" like myself tend to EDIT pre-existing
>>>> documents
>>>> on theirphones...
>>>
>>> Yup. In looking at smartphones (well, feverishly awaiting the e71),
>>> this one ability is the clincher.
>>>
>>> I can do without most of the other features but being able to /modify
>>> an offer/ before going into that second meeting with a client (or
>>> that new meeting with a second client)...
>>>
>>> priceless,
>>> -Craig
>>
>> If I was the client and you walked into a presentation with only a
>> smart phone, I'd take your presentation about as seriously as you
>> obviously do. That is: Not much....
>
> Sorry, I obviously wandered into a religious war. My mistake.

Is there any other kind? And yes, it's your mistake.

Beer Drinking Dog wrote:
> Craig wrote:
>> Todd Allcock wrote:
>>> At 19 Jul 2008 14:28:33 -0700 4phun wrote:
>>>>> The big difference is the range of applications for the Blackberry.
>>>>> I.e.
>>>>> if you want to create/edit an Excel spreadsheet, create/edit a Word
>>>>> document, or create/edit a Powerpoint document, you can do it on a
>>>>> Blackberry, but not on an iPhone.
>>>>>
>>>>> But you're correct that a WinMo device has more capability than a
>>>>> Blackberry, and far more capability than an iPhone.
>>>> What moron is going to create a complex document or spreadsheet on a /
>>>> smart phone/?
>>>
>>>
>>> Very few- but many "morons" like myself tend to EDIT pre-existing
>>> documents
>>> on theirphones...
>>
>> Yup. In looking at smartphones (well, feverishly awaiting the e71),
>> this one ability is the clincher.
>>
>> I can do without most of the other features but being able to /modify
>> an offer/ before going into that second meeting with a client (or that
>> new meeting with a second client)...
>>
>> priceless,
>> -Craig
>
> If I was the client and you walked into a presentation with only a smart
> phone, I'd take your presentation about as seriously as you obviously
> do. That is: Not much....

Sorry, I obviously wandered into a religious war. My mistake.

-Craig

On Jul 19, 8:02*pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

> capabilities. It's a good web browser, music player, and a somewhat lame
> GSM phone, so if that's what someone needs, it's a good product. It
> lacks most of the true smart phone features.

It has precisely the features most people desire in a small credit
card thin cell phone. That is why the iPhone is selling so well all
over the world. I saw yesterday it will now be October 2008 before
there is a restock of the new iPhone 3G in many countries.
the reason the other 'true' smartphones do not do so well is these do
not have the featue set most normal people crave.

At 19 Jul 2008 17:32:14 -0700 Beer Drinking Dog wrote:

> If I was the client and you walked into a presentation with only a
> smart phone, I'd take your presentation about as seriously as you
> obviously do. That is: Not much....


So the size of his computer is obviously more important than the content of
his presentation?

Thanks for the tip- I'll start lugging my old Kaypro around- that ought to
REALLY impress people!

> I'd wonder why you place so much faith in a single gadget and why
> you're more concerned with your own comfort (carrying only a
> lightweight phone instead of a laptop) than in my needs as the client.

You've never seen an Impatica Showmate, then...

http://www.impatica.com/showmate/

A device that wirelessly plays Powerpoint presentations from Blackberries,
Palms, WinMo or Symbian devices through any projector.

Personally, all else being equal, I'd be more impressed with the person
that runs an entire Powerpoint off of two deck-of-cards-sized devices he
pulls out of his coat pocket. Businesspeople appreciate "cool tech" as
much as the next person.


> I'd take seriously the business person that had the presentation
> electronically *and* on paper, already printed and ready to give, as well
> as the alternative offer already prepared. I don't like people that can't
> plan ahead.


You're assuming one can't print from a handheld either... 3rd-party
software is a wonderful thing...

At 19 Jul 2008 21:06:35 -0600 David Moyer wrote:


> not for long, the iphone will clearly kill off all other smart phones.
>
> the massive size of the OSX development communitity and larger installed
> base of the iphone units dictates it.


Not if any real development is stifled by the draconian terms of the SDK
that others have reported.


> but let's all remember Palm, RIMM, Moto, Nokia for what they tried to
> accomplish during their heyday, they really tried before Apple entered
> their market... now, there isn't anything they can do to stop the iphone
> from taking over.


Except do what they already do: provide steak instead of sizzle.

Let's see a few apps that'll turn the iPhone into a smartphone, or else
it'll remain exactly what it is today: "the best iPod ever."


> a good video is here:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02Tbh_umdSg


Excactly my point- the iPhone compares very favorably vs. other non-
smartphones. I have no doubt it'll crush every other current phone in it's
category: multimedia "feature" phones.

Todd Allcock wrote:
> "Carl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I know you're a huge Nokia fan, and I agree that the sleeping giant
>> has been awakened, but I believe you have the wrong company for that
>> title. Keep your eyes on the Blackberry Thunder, due to arrive in
>> the last quarter of this year and my guess is you might find an
>> iPhone with many of its flaws fixed, or at least added
>> functionality, and certainly the (still) better network:
>>
>> http://crackberry.com/details-touchs...kberry-thunder
>
> I have my doubts on the either the device's existence, or it's
> supposed release date of 3rd quarter this year. It's too radical a
> departure for RIM to be releasing in just a couple of months- in
> typical cellphone fanboy style, someone would've dug up the FCC
> applications, leaked mock up pictures etc. if it was due within 60-90
> days.
> And I REALLY have a hard time believing a completely keyboardless
> Blackberry is on the drawing boards. For all of the iPhone's
> positives, and the love it's users have for it, a study of early
> iPhone owners told us the ONE thing the majority of users wanted to
> see added to a future model was a "real" keyboard or at least a
> dialpad. Why "copy" the competitor's product with one that has the
> same achille's heel, particularly when that "heel" happens to be your
> company's signature feature (meaning RIM and keyboards!)
> I might be all wet, but I suspect that RIM has something else up their
> sleeve- surely a larger/higher-res screen device with better browser
> and multimedia, but I doubt they'll copy the iPhone form factor that
> closely- I'd think a slide-out keyboard hidden beneath a larger
> screen would be more their style than a completely keyboardless
> device.
> Just my gut feeling, (and I'm sure I'm my gut's wrong, as well as
> being far too large!)
>
What you're saying makes sense to me. But, while due dates are often missed
by a margin, there are just so many 'reports' of the Thunder that it seems
hard to totally discount it as a device. I guess we'll see soon enough.

I, on the other hand, just bought an iPod Touch (I got a great deal from a
graduate student who got one included with her Apple computer purchase and
didn't want it) and just finished installing the 2.0 software update. I want
to experiment with the iphone's functionality and see how I like it before I
consider switching.

In article <[email protected]>,
SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

> >> Apple has an excellent description of the iPhone on their web site,
> >> "Phone, iPod, and Internet in one fast 3G device." No where do they
> >> mention "Smart Phone" or PDA or UPC or handheld computer, because it
> >> isn't any of those things.
> >
> > Just because Apple doesn't market is such doesn't mean it isn't one.
>
> That's correct. The reason it isn't one is because it lacks the
> capabilities of a smart phone, not because what Apple says.

but the iphone changes all definitions of all phones, so everything
apple does will now be shaped / modeled by the iphone, no other cell
phone matters at this point in the game.

> > So the BlackBerry is a smart phone?
> >
> > Okay, I'll bite...
>
> <snip>
>
> The big difference is the range of applications for the Blackberry. I.e.
> if you want to create/edit an Excel spreadsheet, create/edit a Word
> document, or create/edit a Powerpoint document, you can do it on a
> Blackberry, but not on an iPhone.

but the iphone app store has only been around for 8 days. the
blackberry, some 5 years... so it's quite clear the blackberry has now
been buried by the simple force of momentum.

> But you're correct that a WinMo device has more capability than a
> Blackberry, and far more capability than an iPhone.

not for long, the iphone will clearly kill off all other smart phones.

the massive size of the OSX development communitity and larger installed
base of the iphone units dictates it.

but let's all remember Palm, RIMM, Moto, Nokia for what they tried to
accomplish during their heyday, they really tried before Apple entered
their market... now, there isn't anything they can do to stop the iphone
from taking over.

a good video is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02Tbh_umdSg

SMS wrote:
> Craig wrote:
>
>> I can do without most of the other features but being able to /modify
>> an offer/ before going into that second meeting with a client (or that
>> new meeting with a second client)...
>
> Again, Apple makes no claims that the iPhone is competing in the smart
> phone market, at least for those users that need the true smart phone
> capabilities. It's a good web browser, music player, and a somewhat lame
> GSM phone, so if that's what someone needs, it's a good product. It
> lacks most of the true smart phone features.

Repeating it over and over doesn't necessarily make it true.

Craig wrote:
> Todd Allcock wrote:
>> At 19 Jul 2008 14:28:33 -0700 4phun wrote:
>>>> The big difference is the range of applications for the Blackberry.
>>>> I.e.
>>>> if you want to create/edit an Excel spreadsheet, create/edit a Word
>>>> document, or create/edit a Powerpoint document, you can do it on a
>>>> Blackberry, but not on an iPhone.
>>>>
>>>> But you're correct that a WinMo device has more capability than a
>>>> Blackberry, and far more capability than an iPhone.
>>> What moron is going to create a complex document or spreadsheet on a /
>>> smart phone/?
>>
>>
>> Very few- but many "morons" like myself tend to EDIT pre-existing
>> documents
>> on theirphones...
>
> Yup. In looking at smartphones (well, feverishly awaiting the e71),
> this one ability is the clincher.
>
> I can do without most of the other features but being able to /modify an
> offer/ before going into that second meeting with a client (or that new
> meeting with a second client)...
>
> priceless,
> -Craig

If I was the client and you walked into a presentation with only a smart
phone, I'd take your presentation about as seriously as you obviously
do. That is: Not much....

I'd wonder why you place so much faith in a single gadget and why you're
more concerned with your own comfort (carrying only a lightweight phone
instead of a laptop) than in my needs as the client. I'd take seriously
the business person that had the presentation electronically *and* on
paper, already printed and ready to give, as well as the alternative
offer already prepared. I don't like people that can't plan ahead.

4phun wrote:
> On Jul 19, 2:35 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Beer Drinking Dog wrote:
>>> SMS wrote:
>>>> RBM wrote:
>
>> That's correct. The reason it isn't one is because it lacks the
>> capabilities of a smart phone, not because what Apple says.
>>
>
>> <snip>
>>
>> The big difference is the range of applications for the Blackberry. I.e.
>> if you want to create/edit an Excel spreadsheet, create/edit a Word
>> document, or create/edit a Powerpoint document, you can do it on a
>> Blackberry, but not on an iPhone.
>>
>> But you're correct that a WinMo device has more capability than a
>> Blackberry, and far more capability than an iPhone.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> What moron is going to create a complex document or spreadsheet on a /
> smart phone/?
>
> Only in their dreams, it is not the right tool for the job. It is like
> cutting down a tree with a pen knife.
>
> If he worked for me and on my time tried that I would fire him
> outright. End of story.

Amen.

Just because you can edit documents on a BB or WinPhone doesn't mean you
*should*. Only a masochist would attempt it.

Being able to view them, is however another matter. If you're traveling,
and someone sends you something, you can view it and decide whether you
need to call someone back at the office to take care of it, or it can
wait until you return to the office.

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 19 Jul 2008 14:28:33 -0700 4phun wrote:
>>> The big difference is the range of applications for the Blackberry. I.e.
>>> if you want to create/edit an Excel spreadsheet, create/edit a Word
>>> document, or create/edit a Powerpoint document, you can do it on a
>>> Blackberry, but not on an iPhone.
>>>
>>> But you're correct that a WinMo device has more capability than a
>>> Blackberry, and far more capability than an iPhone.
>> What moron is going to create a complex document or spreadsheet on a /
>> smart phone/?
>
>
> Very few- but many "morons" like myself tend to EDIT pre-existing documents
> on theirphones...

Yup. In looking at smartphones (well, feverishly awaiting the e71),
this one ability is the clincher.

I can do without most of the other features but being able to /modify an
offer/ before going into that second meeting with a client (or that new
meeting with a second client)...

priceless,
-Craig

At 19 Jul 2008 14:28:33 -0700 4phun wrote:
> > The big difference is the range of applications for the Blackberry. I.e.
> > if you want to create/edit an Excel spreadsheet, create/edit a Word
> > document, or create/edit a Powerpoint document, you can do it on a
> > Blackberry, but not on an iPhone.
> >
> > But you're correct that a WinMo device has more capability than a
> > Blackberry, and far more capability than an iPhone.
>
> What moron is going to create a complex document or spreadsheet on a /
> smart phone/?


Very few- but many "morons" like myself tend to EDIT pre-existing documents
on theirphones, or loko up reference information in documents stored
locally on their phone.

And, yes, in a pinch, this moron has create short documents on my Windows
Mobile pone.

> If he worked for me and on my time tried that I would fire him
> outright. End of story.


If you worked for me I'd have issued you a REAL smartphone the minute we
figured out what your peronal iPhone WASN'T able to do! ;-)

On Jul 19, 2:35*pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Beer Drinking Dog wrote:
> > SMS wrote:
> >> RBM wrote:

> That's correct. The reason it isn't one is because it lacks the
> capabilities of a smart phone, not because what Apple says.
>

> <snip>
>
> The big difference is the range of applications for the Blackberry. I.e.
> if you want to create/edit an Excel spreadsheet, create/edit a Word
> document, or create/edit a Powerpoint document, you can do it on a
> Blackberry, but not on an iPhone.
>
> But you're correct that a WinMo device has more capability than a
> Blackberry, and far more capability than an iPhone.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What moron is going to create a complex document or spreadsheet on a /
smart phone/?

Only in their dreams, it is not the right tool for the job. It is like
cutting down a tree with a pen knife.

If he worked for me and on my time tried that I would fire him
outright. End of story.

On Jul 19, 12:25*pm, Larry <[email protected]> wrote:


Larry, Yawn

That great 'physics game' has been on the iPhone from the begining. It
is called iPhysics and has many, many applications that it launches
including a neat Pin ball machine that is very real from sound to
shaking the table.

So you guys ripped it off eh and added it to the Nokia?You are still
following Apple and the Apple fan boy comunity of slick developers.

You could have been there are year ago on the iPhone. I remember
seeing them talking about the iPhone's iPhysics on TV before I even
bought the iPhone.