Mark Crispin wrote:
> On Wed, 14 May 2008, Kevin Weaver posted:
>> Because everything 4phun talks about has something to do with the iPhone.
>
> The iPhone was last year's news. Every finger-in-nose geek has one.
>
> The elite have keitais and do video calling. ;-)
>
>> In my area Verizon is faster then AT&T for data speeds at this time.
>
> Leaving aside the obvious, which is that 3G technologies such as UMTS
> and EV-DO will always be better than 2G technologies such as GSM and
> CDMA, it really is impossible to generalize based upon empirical evidence.
>
> The quoted article, although interesting, lacks the detail needed to
> analyze the claims. One important and obvious question is whether the
> devices were locked to 3G (vs. being allowed to use 2G).
>
> With all this said, at time T carrier X's 3G will be faster than carrier
> Y's 3G in metropolitian area Z. The fallacy is in assuming that X and Y
> remain constant for varying values of T and Z. Among other things, "3G"
> itself is as variable as 2G was.
>
> Put another way, when (not if) Verizon deploys an upgrade to their 3G in
> New York City that puts it ahead of AT&T's 3G in NYC, it would be
> utterly fallacious to claim that such dooms iPhone.
>
> Carriers leapfrog each other. Verizon beat AT&T to the punch on 3G. It
> would be stupid for AT&T to deploy a latecomer 3G that did not
> outperform Verizon's long-standing 3G. And it would be equally stupid
> for Verizon not to work on upgrading their 3G to outperform AT&T's 3G.
> And so on.
>
>> AT&T only turns it on sometimes and then it's only in select areas.
>> AT&T told me there 3G site is in just a few location's at this time.
>
> In Puget Sound, AT&T announced that they will only deploy 3G in the core
> urban areas and that there are no plans for any 3G deployment in the
> smaller cities or the suburbs. And so it happened; the 3G indicator on
> AT&T phones goes off outside of Seattle.
>
> Verizon and Sprint are the only 3G carriers in the suburbs and smaller
> cities. In the rural areas, Verizon is the 3G monopoly.


It doesn't even need to be a rural area. VZW is the only carrier with 3G
within 80 miles or so of here. Sprint is still EvDO and AT&T is whatever
their 2G is called.

>
> It was funny watching the local AT&T store at the mall desperately
> trying to sell their old iPhones (and they still have lots in stock!)
> telling shoppers that there's no point in holding out for a 3G iPhone
> because there won't be any AT&T 3G here. Meanwhile, the Verizon kiosk
> is doing a brisk business with data cards and 3G phones... ;-)
>
> Now, if only Verizon would offer a tethering option cheaper than
> $60/month for 5GB. I currently pay $42.50/month to AT&T for 50MB. I
> would happily fire AT&T if Verizon would sell less expensive tethering.
>
Unfortunately someone has figured out that $60 is the magic number for
their non corporate users. My friend works at a large firm and they pay
less than $30 for their data users.


> -- Mark --
>
> http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
> Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
> Si vis pacem, para bellum.

On Wed, 14 May 2008, Kevin Weaver posted:
> Because everything 4phun talks about has something to do with the iPhone.

The iPhone was last year's news. Every finger-in-nose geek has one.

The elite have keitais and do video calling. ;-)

> In my area Verizon is faster then AT&T for
> data speeds at this time.

Leaving aside the obvious, which is that 3G technologies such as UMTS and
EV-DO will always be better than 2G technologies such as GSM and CDMA, it
really is impossible to generalize based upon empirical evidence.

The quoted article, although interesting, lacks the detail needed to
analyze the claims. One important and obvious question is whether the
devices were locked to 3G (vs. being allowed to use 2G).

With all this said, at time T carrier X's 3G will be faster than carrier
Y's 3G in metropolitian area Z. The fallacy is in assuming that X and Y
remain constant for varying values of T and Z. Among other things, "3G"
itself is as variable as 2G was.

Put another way, when (not if) Verizon deploys an upgrade to their 3G in
New York City that puts it ahead of AT&T's 3G in NYC, it would be utterly
fallacious to claim that such dooms iPhone.

Carriers leapfrog each other. Verizon beat AT&T to the punch on 3G. It
would be stupid for AT&T to deploy a latecomer 3G that did not outperform
Verizon's long-standing 3G. And it would be equally stupid for Verizon
not to work on upgrading their 3G to outperform AT&T's 3G. And so on.

> AT&T only turns it on sometimes and then it's only in select areas. AT&T told
> me there 3G site is in just a few location's at this time.

In Puget Sound, AT&T announced that they will only deploy 3G in the core
urban areas and that there are no plans for any 3G deployment in the
smaller cities or the suburbs. And so it happened; the 3G indicator on
AT&T phones goes off outside of Seattle.

Verizon and Sprint are the only 3G carriers in the suburbs and smaller
cities. In the rural areas, Verizon is the 3G monopoly.

It was funny watching the local AT&T store at the mall desperately trying
to sell their old iPhones (and they still have lots in stock!) telling
shoppers that there's no point in holding out for a 3G iPhone because
there won't be any AT&T 3G here. Meanwhile, the Verizon kiosk is doing a
brisk business with data cards and 3G phones... ;-)

Now, if only Verizon would offer a tethering option cheaper than $60/month
for 5GB. I currently pay $42.50/month to AT&T for 50MB. I would happily
fire AT&T if Verizon would sell less expensive tethering.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Ron <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>>Too bad the iPhone can't run the major speed test sites. No flash
>>support.
>
>
> Duh, how does that affect a 3g iPhone? It'd still be faster on the ATT
> Network.
>
>

....er, ah, it can't run some of the best webpages? streaming videos? news
videos? rip youtube? ....the list without Flash support goes on and on
and on it can't do....

The 3G model will just NOT run Flash faster....

4phun <[email protected]> wrote in news:b415dbe0-d711-4427-a48e-
[email protected]:

> All speed readings -- connection time, the Alken speed tests and page
> loading times -- were repeated five times and averaged.
> .

Vic, try this one from our system:

http://speedtest.knology.net/

Lemme know how fast it reads from there.....

"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 00:32:55 -0700, "Kevin Weaver"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"4phun" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:b415dbe0-d711-4427-a48e-41ad1d754116@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>> AT&T's 3G network beat out Verizon and Sprint's competing networks in
>>> testing done by ComputerWorld.
>>>
>>> Quote:
>>> To gauge the speed and reliability of these three wireless data
>>> networks, I used my ThinkPad X300 to collect nearly 500 data points at
>>> eight different places in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, within
>>> a 50-mile radius of midtown Manhattan's urban canyons.
>>>
>>> I timed how long it took to establish a connection with each network,
>>> followed by speed tests. Using Alken's bandwidth meter, I was able to
>>> gauge download and upload speeds as well as how long it took to load
>>> that vendor's home page. Finally, I ran an Internet radio station and
>>> timed how long it took to drain the battery. I then compared it to
>>> running the battery down using the notebook's Wi-Fi radio.
>>>
>>> All speed readings -- connection time, the Alken speed tests and page
>>> loading times -- were repeated five times and averaged.
>>> ...
>>>
>>> The result placed AT&T as the leader with consistently faster download
>>> and upload speeds and shorter connection and page load times. The
>>> author notes that individual results may vary based on location.
>>
>>
>>Too bad the iPhone can't run the major speed test sites. No flash support.
>
>
> Duh, how does that affect a 3g iPhone? It'd still be faster on the ATT
> Network.


Because everything 4phun talks about has something to do with the iPhone.
I'm just beating him to the punch as he will start bragging that the iPhone
will be oh so cool when 3G is out. In my area Verizon is faster then AT&T
for data speeds at this time.

AT&T only turns it on sometimes and then it's only in select areas. AT&T
told me there 3G site is in just a few location's at this time. (About a
month ago) and there still testing it. I'm able to get it at my house but
only at night when it's turned on.

On Wed, 14 May 2008 00:32:55 -0700, "Kevin Weaver"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"4phun" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:b415dbe0-d711-4427-a48e-41ad1d754116@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> AT&T's 3G network beat out Verizon and Sprint's competing networks in
>> testing done by ComputerWorld.
>>
>> Quote:
>> To gauge the speed and reliability of these three wireless data
>> networks, I used my ThinkPad X300 to collect nearly 500 data points at
>> eight different places in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, within
>> a 50-mile radius of midtown Manhattan's urban canyons.
>>
>> I timed how long it took to establish a connection with each network,
>> followed by speed tests. Using Alken's bandwidth meter, I was able to
>> gauge download and upload speeds as well as how long it took to load
>> that vendor's home page. Finally, I ran an Internet radio station and
>> timed how long it took to drain the battery. I then compared it to
>> running the battery down using the notebook's Wi-Fi radio.
>>
>> All speed readings -- connection time, the Alken speed tests and page
>> loading times -- were repeated five times and averaged.
>> ...
>>
>> The result placed AT&T as the leader with consistently faster download
>> and upload speeds and shorter connection and page load times. The
>> author notes that individual results may vary based on location.
>
>
>Too bad the iPhone can't run the major speed test sites. No flash support.


Duh, how does that affect a 3g iPhone? It'd still be faster on the ATT
Network.

"4phun" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b415dbe0-d711-4427-a48e-41ad1d754116@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> AT&T's 3G network beat out Verizon and Sprint's competing networks in
> testing done by ComputerWorld.
>
> Quote:
> To gauge the speed and reliability of these three wireless data
> networks, I used my ThinkPad X300 to collect nearly 500 data points at
> eight different places in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, within
> a 50-mile radius of midtown Manhattan's urban canyons.
>
> I timed how long it took to establish a connection with each network,
> followed by speed tests. Using Alken's bandwidth meter, I was able to
> gauge download and upload speeds as well as how long it took to load
> that vendor's home page. Finally, I ran an Internet radio station and
> timed how long it took to drain the battery. I then compared it to
> running the battery down using the notebook's Wi-Fi radio.
>
> All speed readings -- connection time, the Alken speed tests and page
> loading times -- were repeated five times and averaged.
> ...
>
> The result placed AT&T as the leader with consistently faster download
> and upload speeds and shorter connection and page load times. The
> author notes that individual results may vary based on location.


Too bad the iPhone can't run the major speed test sites. No flash support.

AT&T's 3G network beat out Verizon and Sprint's competing networks in
testing done by ComputerWorld.

Quote:
To gauge the speed and reliability of these three wireless data
networks, I used my ThinkPad X300 to collect nearly 500 data points at
eight different places in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, within
a 50-mile radius of midtown Manhattan's urban canyons.

I timed how long it took to establish a connection with each network,
followed by speed tests. Using Alken's bandwidth meter, I was able to
gauge download and upload speeds as well as how long it took to load
that vendor's home page. Finally, I ran an Internet radio station and
timed how long it took to drain the battery. I then compared it to
running the battery down using the notebook's Wi-Fi radio.

All speed readings -- connection time, the Alken speed tests and page
loading times -- were repeated five times and averaged.
....

The result placed AT&T as the leader with consistently faster download
and upload speeds and shorter connection and page load times. The
author notes that individual results may vary based on location.