iPhone is major hit in the UK, DE! See Video!

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007, Oxford wrote:
> Apple was the first to make styluses obsolete, just like it made
> "commands" obsolete with the mac some 24 years ago.

If Apple truly believes that, then they are dead in the water with any
touch screen device in the East Asian market.

>> SD card slots 2 w/SDHC no
> not needed when you sync, something Nokia doesn't understand.

So the iPhone is forever stuck with its pathetic 8GB limit, while the N800
can have as much as 64GB. Too bad if you want to keep movies on it.

>> FM radio tuner yes no
> you no longer need radio when you have auto syncing of Podcasts.

That makes the false assumption of WiFi availability and that the
broadcaster has an Internet feed.

>> Skype yes no
> yes, the iPhone works well with Skype.

There is no Skype application for the iPhone. AT&T doesn't want the
competition.

>> Google Talk yes no
> Not needed.

Tell that to Google and its users.

>> Jabber yes no
> Not needed.

Technical conferences which are highly dependent upon Jabber might
disagree with that.

>> open source yes no
> yes, fully open.

So where is the complete source code to the iPhone firmware?

Darwin != the iPhone firmware.

If it is open source, then every other manufacturer can port that firmware
to their devices without having to pay Apple anything. Refer to the
definition of Open Source:
http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd

Thus nobody needs to buy an iPhone.

>> direct download yes no (requires iTunes)
> yes, iPhone drive works well

iPhone Drive is a Mac program to copy files to unused storage space on the
iPhone, and the iPhone can NOT access those files. That has nothing to do
with "direct download".

You can not, from the iPhone, download files from the Internet to it. You
have to go through a Mac or a PC.

The N800 supports direct downloads from the browser. Or, if you so
prefer, you can get to a shell and run scp, rcp, or even ftp. The N800 is
not locked up the way iPhone is.

>> full web browser yes yes
> and actually the N800 doesn't allow for full browsing, its only the baby
> internet so far.

Bull****. The N800 has a complete browser; in fact it's more complete
than iPhone's stripped-down version of Safari. The N800 is not a WAP
device.

You don't have a clue what an N800 is, do you?

>> screen resolution 640x800 320x480
> Better screen resolution on the iPhone. 160ppi

So sorry, fanboy. The N800 is 188ppi.

You don't have a clue what an N800 is, do you?

>> price $230 $400
> not the actual price, only a contract price. the iPhone doesn't require
> a contract.

Silly little fanyboy, there is no such thing as a "contract price" on the
Nokia N800. There is no such thing as a "contract" for an N800!

You don't have a clue what an N800 is, do you?

>> small size, great battery life.
> no, yes, yes.

You don't have a clue what an N800 is, do you?

>> thin, easy to use.
> no, yes, yes.

Ever put an iPhone and an N800 side by side? The N800 is thinner.

You don't have a clue what an N800 is, do you?

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

---

› See More: iPhone is major hit in the UK, DE! See Video!

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007, Jesus wrote:
> So all humans work in exactly the same way and only one way of doing
> things is correct. Well, Oxtard, if there's only one way, why has
> NeXT/Apple gone through *five* different kinds of Finders? Didn't
> their research find that *one* way the first time?

NeXT was too busy learning why it is a bad idea to build a system where
you can't do an ls because a DNS server doesn't respond. [In fairness to
Apple, Mac OS X has largely defanged the abomination called NetInfo.]

>> Apple lets you move the Dock to the Left (for legal reasons that MS got
>> stuck in) the bottom which I think is non-functional, the right, the
>> correct choice for western thinking nations, or the top if you want.
> That was so incredibly lame that I'm not going to comment any further
> on it, Mr. O'Reilly.

That's actually an insult to O'Reilly. Oxford establishes a new low.

>> and nobody in the Mac world will even get close to it.
> Yet tons of Mac users still use it... strange.

Perhaps it's because, unlike Safari, Firefox doesn't lose the ability to
render forms because some obscure file in ~/Library/FontCollections went
missing.

Perhaps it's because, unlike Safari, Firefox is Open Source and its code
can be audited for security by the general community.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

Mark Crispin <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007, Jesus wrote:
> > So all humans work in exactly the same way and only one way of doing
> > things is correct. Well, Oxtard, if there's only one way, why has
> > NeXT/Apple gone through *five* different kinds of Finders? Didn't
> > their research find that *one* way the first time?

The Mac still uses the original Finder. But yes, the LISA, IIgs had
slightly different Finders. But when NeXT bought Apple they adopted
the Mac Finder, not the NeXTSTEP one.

> NeXT was too busy learning why it is a bad idea to build a system where
> you can't do an ls because a DNS server doesn't respond. [In fairness to
> Apple, Mac OS X has largely defanged the abomination called NetInfo.]

Yes, Netinfo is gone in Leopard.

> >> Apple lets you move the Dock to the Left (for legal reasons that MS got
> >> stuck in) the bottom which I think is non-functional, the right, the
> >> correct choice for western thinking nations, or the top if you want.
> > That was so incredibly lame that I'm not going to comment any further
> > on it, Mr. O'Reilly.
>
> That's actually an insult to O'Reilly. Oxford establishes a new low.

???

> >> and nobody in the Mac world will even get close to it.
> > Yet tons of Mac users still use it... strange.
>
> Perhaps it's because, unlike Safari, Firefox doesn't lose the ability to
> render forms because some obscure file in ~/Library/FontCollections went
> missing.
>
> Perhaps it's because, unlike Safari, Firefox is Open Source and its code
> can be audited for security by the general community.

Yes, Safari is a poor Browser, I only use Camino which is the more
advanced version of FireFox.

"LoSebal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> But for some reason, I always outsmart you. Isn't that odd? You haven't
> won a post in quite awhile. When are you going to put on your thinking
> cap... Mark?
>
> People love to laugh at you on USENET, but this is getting ridiculously
> funny!
>
> -

You have "outsmarted" no one.

Check that - maybe yourself. Yes, I guess that is fairly 'odd'...

You actually think anyone believes your bull****, that crossposting and
using
sockpuppets is OK? Get a clue bucko - you are standing all alone here.

In article <[email protected]>,
Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:

> At 11 Nov 2007 22:09:51 -0800 David Friedman wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, the 3G in the "US Version" of their highest end phone,
> > the E90, uses a frequency that no carrier in the U.S. supports, so it
> is
> > for all practical purposes a 2.5G (i.e. EDGE) phone in the U.S., hence
> > no better in that respect than the iPhone
>
>
> There really isn't a "US" version, though, is there?

There is a version that purports to be a US version. If you push the
Nokia people on what is US about it, the answer is mostly that it's
serial number means they will support it in the US.

> > I am an Apple shareholder, as it happens, and very happy with the
> effect
> > of the iPhone on the value of my shares. But I don't think your
> > description is correct. The iPhone combines an iPod, a phone, and an
> > internet device--primarily a web browser.

> Fair enough, but my point is that a lack of 3G might really hurt sales in
> Europe.

How widely available is 3G in Europe? Can you get it almost everywhere,
as you can get EDGE here?

> > What I want, however, is a combination phone, internet device and
> > pda--pocket computer. That's what the E90 would be--if its high speed
> > connection worked in the US and if its software were at least as good
> as
> > the software of the 9300, my current phone. Unfortunately, neither is
> > the case. The software is, for my purposes, hopelessly bad, and the
> "3G"
> > is a (in the US) useless 2100 MHz.
>
> What don't you like about the software? Is it the switch from Series 80
> to S60, which would render your current 9300's 3rd-party apps useless?
> Based on the reviews I've read, it seems like a sporty little computer
> with excellent 3rd-party support.

I suspect part of the problem is the switch to Series 60. I discuss my
problems in some detail in my blog:

http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/2...y-judgement.ht
ml

What particularly struck me was the word processor. One of the things I
use a smart phone/pda for is reading books--both other people's books,
and going through books I am writing noting things that need to be fixed.

Loading a book length file in the E90 took nine to ten minutes. And the
E90, unlike the 9300, could only have one such file loaded at a time, so
if I want to switch books I have to load the new one.

The rest of the software also felt clumsy--I repeatedly found myself in
situations where pushing a button, including the menu button, had no
effect. It's hard to be sure with a new machine how much of the
clumsiness is unfamiliarity, but I suspect a good deal of it was
switching a communicator to the S60 software, which was designed for
rather different machines with considerably smaller screens.

....

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
Published by Baen, in bookstores now

In article <[email protected]>,
Scott <[email protected]> wrote:

> Snit <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:C35D061D.98C63%[email protected]:
>
> > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> stated in post
> > [email protected] on 11/11/07 6:40
> > PM:
> >
> >> In article
> >> <[email protected]>,
> >> Oxford <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Yeah, because 802.11g works SO WELL when you are in a car on an
> >>>> interstate highway. Those wifi hotspots every 1/2 mile along the
> >>>> road sure are handy!
> >>>
> >>> you shouldn't EVER be using a cell phone while driving in a car.
> >>> it's the 2nd leading cause of death. What? are you insane too?
> >>
> >> hey, everyone--before you jump on him about how passengers in the car
> >> can do anything they want, consider that Oxford has never had a
> >> passenger in his car and has never been a passenger in a car--because
> >> that would entail having friends, which Oxford has never had.
> > ?
> >> So the concept of being a passenger in a car, and using a phone or
> >> other mobile web browsing/email device while the car is actually in
> >> motion, is completely foreign to him.
> >>
> > Please: comment on the message and not the person, especially with
> > such BS - when you sink to that type silliness you simply make
> > yourself look bad.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Physician, heal thyself.

"Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a
number of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the
stresses of life better than average, am well adjusted, and am in no
need of any psychological counseling". - Snit

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hey, Oxford--now that you're listening, who is Adele Goldberg and what
> crucial role did she play in Steve Jobs's world?

I was wondering the same thing, so thought I'd ask you since nobody else
seems to know. So Elmo, who is Adele Goldberg and what crucial role did
she play in Steve Jobs's world?

Everyone is dying to know...

In article <C35D1B4F.98C95%[email protected]>,
Snit <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Scott" <[email protected]> stated in post
> [email protected] on 11/11/07 8:40 PM:
>
> > Snit <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:C35D061D.98C63%[email protected]:
> >
> >> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> stated in post
> >> [email protected] on 11/11/07 6:40
> >> PM:
> >>
> >>> In article
> >>> <[email protected]>,
> >>> Oxford <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> Yeah, because 802.11g works SO WELL when you are in a car on an
> >>>>> interstate highway. Those wifi hotspots every 1/2 mile along the
> >>>>> road sure are handy!
> >>>>
> >>>> you shouldn't EVER be using a cell phone while driving in a car.
> >>>> it's the 2nd leading cause of death. What? are you insane too?
> >>>
> >>> hey, everyone--before you jump on him about how passengers in the car
> >>> can do anything they want, consider that Oxford has never had a
> >>> passenger in his car and has never been a passenger in a car--because
> >>> that would entail having friends, which Oxford has never had.
> >> ?
> >>> So the concept of being a passenger in a car, and using a phone or
> >>> other mobile web browsing/email device while the car is actually in
> >>> motion, is completely foreign to him.
> >>>
> >> Please: comment on the message and not the person, especially with
> >> such BS - when you sink to that type silliness you simply make
> >> yourself look bad.
> >
> > Physician, heal thyself.
>
> Do you have any examples of posts where I make up stories about someone?

LOL! That's rich!

Did your ever take responsibility for the story you made up regarding
the race based accusation you leveled against George Graves?

<[email protected]>
George Graves responded to a story you once told with:

"Why do I not believe that this actually happened?"

Snit's reply:

"For the same reason you find it OK to attack people based on skin
color..."

George's reply:
"There you go lying again. I have nowhere said that it was OK to attack
people based on their skin color..."

Did you ever prove your little story about George doing what you claimed?

Or how about the story you made up where you claimed that Sandman was
talking about his "porn habits"?

"Sandman is begging me to join his circus... the one where he obfuscates
the questions asked of him by spewing all sorts of BS, in this case even
information about his porn habits - *which I do not want to know
about*". - Snit

Sandman replied:
"I will give you a million dollar if you can quote me talking about my
porn habits. One million dollars. Failing to do so will result in either
an apology of your misinformation or admittance to your lie. One million
dollars. All for you. You sure could need it".
<C1B43CE2.6CF4A%[email protected]>

So... did you ever collect the money, Mr. Pathological Liar? Or did you
apologize?

> I do not care to dig back through years worth of posts to re-verify
> something I have said

No re-verification needed for the above. So how about apologizing to
George and Sandman now?

> , so stick to, say, the last 6 months.

LOL! Ah yes... the old 'time limit' game; sorry, Snit... your history
won't go away just because you need it to. By the way... what's stopping
you from apologizing for your past poor behavior?

> If you can point out
> where I have done so I shall certainly apologize to whoever I did this to.

Everyone has seen your form of 'apology'... no one was impressed.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> stated in post
[email protected] on 11/12/07 3:50 AM:

> In article <C35D061D.98C63%[email protected]>,
> Snit <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> you shouldn't EVER be using a cell phone while driving in a car. it's
>>>> the 2nd leading cause of death. What? are you insane too?
>>>
>>> hey, everyone--before you jump on him about how passengers in the car
>>> can do anything they want, consider that Oxford has never had a
>>> passenger in his car and has never been a passenger in a car--because
>>> that would entail having friends, which Oxford has never had.
>> ?
>>> So the concept of being a passenger in a car, and using a phone or other
>>> mobile web browsing/email device while the car is actually in motion, is
>>> completely foreign to him.
>>>
>> Please: comment on the message and not the person, especially with such BS -
>> when you sink to that type silliness you simply make yourself look bad.
>
> OK, Oxford-sock-puppet. Whatever you say.
>
> Hey, Oxford--now that you're listening, who is Adele Goldberg and what
> crucial role did she play in Steve Jobs's world?
>
What the heck are you talking about?


--
"Innovation is not about saying yes to everything. It's about saying NO to
all but the most crucial features." -- Steve Jobs

What specific Nokia model are you all talking about in this thread????


"Snit" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:C35DBA21.98DC1%[email protected]...
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> stated in post
> [email protected] on 11/12/07 3:50 AM:
>
>> In article <C35D061D.98C63%[email protected]>,
>> Snit <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>>> you shouldn't EVER be using a cell phone while driving in a car. it's
>>>>> the 2nd leading cause of death. What? are you insane too?
>>>>
>>>> hey, everyone--before you jump on him about how passengers in the car
>>>> can do anything they want, consider that Oxford has never had a
>>>> passenger in his car and has never been a passenger in a car--because
>>>> that would entail having friends, which Oxford has never had.
>>> ?
>>>> So the concept of being a passenger in a car, and using a phone or
>>>> other
>>>> mobile web browsing/email device while the car is actually in motion,
>>>> is
>>>> completely foreign to him.
>>>>
>>> Please: comment on the message and not the person, especially with such
>>> BS -
>>> when you sink to that type silliness you simply make yourself look bad.
>>
>> OK, Oxford-sock-puppet. Whatever you say.
>>
>> Hey, Oxford--now that you're listening, who is Adele Goldberg and what
>> crucial role did she play in Steve Jobs's world?
>>
> What the heck are you talking about?
>
>
> --
> "Innovation is not about saying yes to everything. It's about saying NO to
> all but the most crucial features." -- Steve Jobs
>
>
>

Oxford wrote:
> nope, i'm not confused on anything, the difference is i'm ahead of the
> curve on somethings, so what i say won't quite make sense to people not
> in the industry.

Let's parse the above statement:

"What i say won't quite make sense to people not in the industry" is
because those of us that are indeed in the industry recognize nonsense
when we see it.

> the density of 802.11 access points is increasing at an extreme rate and
> is much faster than 3G, so having a phone that works with data faster
> than 3G is the future.

You don't seem to understand back-hauls very much.

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 09:45:18 -0700, Oxford
<[email protected]> dropped the following oil-slick:
>
> Nokia is toast at the high end.

That may well be the case if Apple ever get round to making a phone
for that sector of the market.
--
gomez
Honda TransAlp,KTM 640LC Enduro (For Sale)
(not is not to reply)
"The best tool for the job is the hammer thats nearest to hand"

At 12 Nov 2007 02:23:29 -0800 David Friedman wrote:

> There is a version that purports to be a US version. If you push
> the Nokia people on what is US about it, the answer is mostly
> that it's serial number means they will support it in the US.


Oh. Probably that simply means it's sold at Nokia's US stores.

> How widely available is 3G in Europe? Can you get it almost everywhere,
> as you can get EDGE here?

Due to the smaller geography, 3G coverage as a percentage of total
coverage is higher, but there are still holes.

Another advantage of 2100MHz 3G is that it allows the phone to be used in
Japan, which is predominantly CDMA, but with a 2100MHz WCDMA (3G UMTS)
overlay.

> Loading a book length file in the E90 took nine to ten minutes. And the
> E90, unlike the 9300, could only have one such file loaded at a time,
so
> if I want to switch books I have to load the new one.

Ouch. My WinMo phone chokes on very large documents as well, but not
that bad. Pity. I haven't played with the E90 yet, but it seems not
worth the effort.


> The rest of the software also felt clumsy--I repeatedly found myself in
> situations where pushing a button, including the menu button, had no
> effect. It's hard to be sure with a new machine how much of the
> clumsiness is unfamiliarity, but I suspect a good deal of it was
> switching a communicator to the S60 software, which was designed for
> rather different machines with considerably smaller screens.

It'll be interesting if user feedback leads them to create an improved
version of S60 for large screen devices, resurrect Series 80 for future
models, or perhaps move to an N800-type Linux-based model. I think a
slimmed-down N8xx tablet-based phone could be an incredible device if
done right.

DTC <[email protected]> wrote:

> > the density of 802.11 access points is increasing at an extreme rate and
> > is much faster than 3G, so having a phone that works with data faster
> > than 3G is the future.
>
> You don't seem to understand back-hauls very much.

and you don't seem to understand distributed wireless very much.

the entire trend is to flaten out the wireless signal, make it free,
then everyone wins.

you'll see what i'm saying in time... an Apple branded version of this
would be massively disruptive to the old school cable/dsl networks, cell
carriers, phone companies, etc...

http://www.fon.com/en/resources

it's the shape of things to come...

At 12 Nov 2007 00:17:52 -0700 Oxford wrote:

> nope, i'm not confused on anything, the difference is i'm ahead of the
> curve on somethings, so what i say won't quite make sense to people not
> in the industry.

What industry is that? While you seem to have a passing familiarity with
Apple products, it's hard to believe anyone in the computer or wireless
industry wouldn't know, for example, what a Nokia N-series web-tablet is.
At least a cursory knowledge of competitive products is important to
success in any industry.

> the density of 802.11 access points is increasing at an extreme rate

Agreed. Unfortunately, for your view of the future, so is knowledge of
security even to home users. The number of open APs is shrinking as
consmers get better educated.

It's much rarer to find an open AP today than just a couple of years ago
in my experience. Heck, two or three years ago, I was amazed at how many
retail stores ran open APs! You could find free WiFi at almost any good
sized mall then!

Today the vast majority of business and residential APs are closed.

> and
> is much faster than 3G,

So is wired Ethernet, but carrying that 100' Cat5 cable around is such a
pain. What's your point?

> so having a phone that works with data faster
> than 3G is the future...

Of course. However, that "future" won't be 801.11g. Currently the
fastest ubiquitous data solution is high-speed cellular. Future, as yet
undeployed, technologies, like WiMax, will be built into future devices.


> as seen here...
>
> watch this...
>
> http://www.seesmic.com/Standalone.html?video=c7BW1pm3l8
>
> then see this...
>
> http://www.fon.com/en/

Hypocrisy, thy name is Oxford. First you tell us "free" WiFi will kill
cellular, then you think we'll just all buy WiFi from each other through
brokers like Fon. Which is it? Free or paid? (Forgetting, for the
moment, that using Fon violates the TOS of every major ISP in the
country!)

> add iChatIP then total them all up and it *****s the end of the cell
> industry as we knew it.

Here we go again! Again, you demonstrate your lack of knowledge of
anything existing outside of Apple. VoIP has been around for years, as
well as easy-to-use, dedicated WiFi VoIP phones. This hasn't made a dent
in cellular yet, because cellular is more ubiquitous and convenient.
WiFi drops VoIP calls when switching between APs, while cellular
maintains connections when switching between towers. A mobile phone
isn't much good if you can't be mobile!


> nah, open 802.11 is everywhere in europe and BT will be opening
10,000's
> of free hotspots so coverage will be ubiquitous in less than a decade.

More backpeddling? Your time table for cellular's demise keeps getting
pushed furher into the future. IIRC, it was about 18 months when the
iPhone launched, then a couple of years, now over a decade?

Existing industries adapt to changing market conditions. If the future
truly is VoIP, then cellular carriers will adapt by becoming "VWANs"
(Very Wide Area Networks) and offer the necessary internet access, as
Sprint seems to be attempting with WiMax.