When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

In article <[email protected]>, moc.enilepip@ykkams wrote:
>Most of the sites here (I am in a rapidly urbanizing suburb which
>borders on rural areas) are served by sites which have slab-mounted
>enclosures which are weathertight without having a full pre-fab
>housing. These seem to have their own HVAC internally, but do not have
>anything more than the manual transfer switch and generator jack.

Sorry, in my earlier comments, I thought you were referring to a building with
a MTSO/CO/cell site. The Outside Plant Cabinets do have self contained HVAC
units. Usually, only critical locations have a gen-set.

>I'm not sure if there are batteries in there, as there doesn't seem to
>be much room. Even if there are, this couldn't run very long given the
>typical powe failure duration in these parts.

The cabinet contains power and batteries, usually in the form of
"mono-blocks". These are similar to a car battery, in that each unit contains
6 * 2V cells, for 12V. The rule of thumb is to provision for 8 hours
backup, but actual run time may be much less. As you noted, if it gets too
hot in the cabinet, the radio/telecom gear will shut down before the batteries
die.

>
>In the late 80's/ early 90's I did work in the AMPS cellular industry.
>This was a time when PCS was called "CT2." I understand things have
>changed. Back then, I was with a "B carrier" whose sites mostly AT&T
>equipment which had banks of glass jar batteries along one side of the
>wall. My impression is that these sites were built to remain up for
>several days.

Those are called wet cells. Valve Regulated Lead Acid (VRLA) batteries were
introduced as a "maintenance free" alternative to wet cells. They use a gel
instead of the water. Unfortunately, they have proved to have a much shorter
life span (~5 to 7 years) vs the 20+ years you can get out of a properly
maintained set of wet cells.

---

› See More: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

Steve & Susan wrote:
> Even WITH GPS, there are severe limitations to cellular ALI. One that
> is consistantly ignored is the location of an iindividual inside a
> shopping mall or highrise building where there is attenuation of
> signal preventing the use of the GPS constellation. Or, for that
> matter a situation which requires a Z coordinate.

At www.snaptrack.com, they make fairly aggressive claims about how their
aGPS system will work in severe (for GPS) conditions (indoors /
basements / urban canyons). Do you feel that these claims are over-stated?

Don S wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, moc.enilepip@ykkams wrote:
>
>>Most of the sites here (I am in a rapidly urbanizing suburb which
>>borders on rural areas) are served by sites which have slab-mounted
>>enclosures which are weathertight without having a full pre-fab
>>housing. These seem to have their own HVAC internally, but do not have
>>anything more than the manual transfer switch and generator jack.
>
>
> Sorry, in my earlier comments, I thought you were referring to a building with
> a MTSO/CO/cell site. The Outside Plant Cabinets do have self contained HVAC
> units. Usually, only critical locations have a gen-set.
>
>
>>I'm not sure if there are batteries in there, as there doesn't seem to
>>be much room. Even if there are, this couldn't run very long given the
>>typical powe failure duration in these parts.
>
>
> The cabinet contains power and batteries, usually in the form of
> "mono-blocks". These are similar to a car battery, in that each unit contains
> 6 * 2V cells, for 12V. The rule of thumb is to provision for 8 hours
> backup, but actual run time may be much less. As you noted, if it gets too
> hot in the cabinet, the radio/telecom gear will shut down before the batteries
> die.
>
>
>>In the late 80's/ early 90's I did work in the AMPS cellular industry.
>>This was a time when PCS was called "CT2." I understand things have
>>changed. Back then, I was with a "B carrier" whose sites mostly AT&T
>>equipment which had banks of glass jar batteries along one side of the
>>wall. My impression is that these sites were built to remain up for
>>several days.
>
>
> Those are called wet cells. Valve Regulated Lead Acid (VRLA) batteries were
> introduced as a "maintenance free" alternative to wet cells. They use a gel
> instead of the water. Unfortunately, they have proved to have a much shorter
> life span (~5 to 7 years) vs the 20+ years you can get out of a properly
> maintained set of wet cells.
>


All true, but the maintenance-free nature of the newer gel-cell batts,
despite the shorter life spans, are thermally more stable, occupy less
space and can be recycled. VRLA batts require regular hands-on
maintenance, are comparatively huge, and cost more to dispose of even
after their longer-term life.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> On Sun, 22 May 2005 12:26:13 -0700, John Nelson
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> >says...
> >> I don't see anything meaningful coming from the
> >> Commission other than another unfunded mandate that is ultimately
> >> passed on to us local 9-1-1 systems.
> >
> >I disagree. For the hundreds of start-up VOIP providers who will NOT be
> >able to gain the mandated access, the implications are meaningful
> >indeed.
>
> Yes, this is of consequence to the VoIP providers. But the competitive
> telephone industry is so fluid that it seems to run in cycles.

Yes, with the Bell Co's always coming out on top. Hmmm....

> We'll see how this endures - and what will happen once the ILECs feel
> that piping broadband into everyone's home and replacing tip and ring
> with a line-powered modem and POTS interface better meets long term
> business. If that ever comes to fruition I've got to wonder what will
> come of the smaller VoIP companies.

It is coming, but the ILEC's are typically 1-3 years behind the market
in recognizing trends and adapting to changes. My observation is that
this is, more often than not, due to their reluctance to (what they see
as) canibalize their cash cows. For example, in our neck o' the woods,
Qwest took FOREVER to start selling DSL, despite the fact that there was
demonstrated demand for it. Demonstrated, for example, by the fact that
Covad was selling it hand-over-fist for eighteen months before Qwest
even started, in one particular area. Today, Covad is hanging on by
their fingernails.

> Don't get me wrong - I do appreciate the requirement to provide ANI/
> ALI information, however Congress should have assessed the impact to
> local governments in certain operating situations prior to turning
> loose another free rider.

Out of touch federal officials? You liberal malcontent, you.

"Steve & Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 22 May 2005 10:38:58 -0700, John Nelson
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>First of all, the notion that the location of a cell phone caller can be
>>determined quickly and reliably (without the use of GPS enabled
>>handsets) is a MYTH.
>
> Even WITH GPS, there are severe limitations to cellular ALI. One that
> is consistantly ignored is the location of an iindividual inside a
> shopping mall or highrise building where there is attenuation of
> signal preventing the use of the GPS constellation. Or, for that
> matter a situation which requires a Z coordinate.

Quick question to interrupt an interesting thread. Is it safe to presume
that if one makes a 911 call with a GPS equipped handset that it would
provide the last known location to the 911 center? Or will it just go "duh"
and not provide any location. Was this addressed in the regulations?


--
Thomas M. Goethe

On Mon, 23 May 2005 00:42:40 GMT, CharlesH <[email protected]>
wrote:
>At www.snaptrack.com, they make fairly aggressive claims about how their
>aGPS system will work in severe (for GPS) conditions (indoors /
>basements / urban canyons). Do you feel that these claims are over-stated?

Interesting idea. It looks like the system eliminates the time it
takes to build an almanac, collects and sends differential correction
via overhead signaling and is supplemented by TDOA (?) information
through the network. It's nifty, but I'm not sure if it will work in a
building using GPS or will more likely use the GPS to establish some
degree of precision tolerance and then use the TDOA (or similar) to
fill in when there is some impediment to getting a signal on the
receiver.

I'm not sure whether I want to be consistently blurping position
requests, either. I mean, sure, you are constantly registering into
the system as you walk or drive around, but think of it - a system
that can use GIS to calculate exactly where its users are and where
they are not... wasn't that in one of those Schwarzeneggar movies,
where the advertisements knew where people were and hawked them
everywhere they went?

Steve

On Mon, 23 May 2005 02:33:26 GMT, "Thomas M. Goethe"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Quick question to interrupt an interesting thread. Is it safe to presume
>that if one makes a 911 call with a GPS equipped handset that it would
>provide the last known location to the 911 center? Or will it just go "duh"
>and not provide any location. Was this addressed in the regulations?

I've got to defer that to someone else. None of my PSAPs have Phase 2
being sent to them yet. I wonder the same.

If it's the last known location, what is to stop someone from pulling
the battery or, if a lithium cell is used in the intrinsic GPS
receiver, wrap the thing in foil, move and establish a call? Or, would
there be a "doubious information" bit that is sent so that the
telecommunicator could be certain to verify information?

Dunno.

Steve

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They move fast.

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"MrPepper11" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
May 12, 2005
Cellphone Hangup: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?
As More People Go Wireless, Patchwork of Call Centers Slows Locater
System
Upgrade Money Spent on Boots
By ANNE MARIE SQUEO
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

In November 1993, Jennifer Koon, under attack by a vicious assailant,
dialed 911 from her cellphone. But the dispatcher in upstate New York
could only listen helplessly for 20 minutes as the 18-year-old, unable
to give her exact location, was beaten, driven to an alley and shot to
death. The technology wasn't available to find her.

Almost 12 years later, more than half of the U.S. still lacks the
technology to find cellphone callers in distress. Though the federal
government is spending billions of dollars annually on homeland
security, the 911 system that Americans rely on to report an emergency
hasn't benefited.

With the explosive growth of wireless technology, more than a third of
the 190 million calls placed to 911 each year now come from cellphones.
Even as some of the nation's biggest cellular carriers face a December
deadline to upgrade their systems for 911 calls, many emergency-call
centers won't be able to receive the data. Virtually all of the
nation's 6,000 call centers can locate land-line phones, but only 41%
of them can locate cellphones, public-safety officials say. And the
situation is getting worse with the growing popularity of
Internet-based phone services -- some of which can't access traditional
911 service.

No federal agency has the authority to drive the local, state and
federal governments, as well as dozens of wireless and local-phone
companies, toward a solution. The cellular industry initially reacted
slowly because of costs and liability concerns. Public-safety officials
estimate it would take $8 billion and at least four more years to
modernize the nation's 911 system for wireless calls. And that doesn't
include the costs of updating the system to handle Internet phone
services.

Meanwhile, cash-strapped states have diverted funds earmarked for 911
to balance budgets and pay for unrelated items, including winter boots
and dry cleaning for the New York State Police. While Congress passed a
law last year to pay for some upgrades and stop the state raids on 911
money, President Bush, facing his own budget problems, has declined to
fund that initiative.

"These are front-burner challenges getting back-burner treatment," says
Michael Copps, a commissioner at the Federal Communications Commission.
"The government itself is still working on developing a nationwide
plan. It just does not exist yet."

According to the latest information compiled by the National Emergency
Number Association, a nonprofit corporation focused on public-safety
communications issues, only six states, plus the District of Columbia,
have the technology in place to find 911 wireless callers from most
places in the state. Three more are close to completion. Sixteen
states, including New Jersey, Arizona and Ohio, have upgraded less than
10% of their counties, NENA says. Six of those states haven't finished
a single county.

Even within many states, coverage is uneven, with some counties and
cities receiving upgrades while neighboring ones haven't. A modernized
call center in the South Side of Chicago, for example, often helps
locate cellphone callers in nearby cities where emergency operators
lack the technology to do it themselves.

Big Shift

Part of the 911 problem is the result of a vast shift among consumers
away from traditional fixed-line phones toward new technologies. Older
phones are easy to find because they are plugged into the wall at a
specific address and aren't moveable. When a 911 call is made from that
number, the location automatically pops up on the computer screen in
front of the call-center operator who answers.

But consumers increasingly favor cellular and Internet services because
they offer cheaper rates and greater mobility -- the very thing that
makes callers difficult to find. About 6% of the nation's 182 million
cellphone users have gotten rid of their home phones, according to
industry analysts, who say the percentage will continue to rise.

Technology offers two ways to pinpoint wireless callers. Global
Positioning System satellites can be used to find the caller if
cellphones are equipped with a special chip, and the local 911 center
has been upgraded to receive specific latitude and longitude data.
That's the system being used by Verizon Wireless, Nextel Communications
Inc. and Sprint Corp. Two other major cellular companies, Cingular
Wireless and T-Mobile USA, a unit of Deutsche Telecom AG, are using
triangulation -- measuring the distance of a signal from three
different cellphone towers -- to locate 911 callers.

But these technologies face challenges. Cellular providers using GPS
have to get their customers to buy a new phone equipped with a special
computer chip for their location system to work. In March, a man died
in a Long Island snowstorm after calling 911 from an older cellphone
that couldn't transmit his coordinates, even though the local call
center had satellite-locator technology. Triangulation has proved
problematic in rural areas, where towers, if there are any, are often
built in straight lines along highways. That makes it difficult to get
three separate measures to locate a 911 caller.

The FCC has set a year-end deadline for Verizon, Nextel and Sprint to
upgrade nearly all their customers to GPS-enabled phones. But even if
the companies persuade people with older phones to upgrade, no similar
deadline has been set for local and state governments to get their
equipment in place to handle such calls. And no federal agency has the
jurisdiction to set one.

Internet-phone services offer an entirely different host of problems.
These services allow consumers in, say, Boise, Idaho, to get a phone
number with a Boston area code, which raises questions about where a
911 call would be routed. Public-safety officials say new technology is
needed to locate the call center nearest the Internet modem making the
call, regardless of the phone number.

Some Internet phone services don't let users connect to 911 or they
route callers to nonemergency numbers. Earlier this year, a family in
Houston with Internet phone service couldn't alert police that two
armed robbers had forced their way into the family's home and shot both
parents in the legs. When their daughter called 911, she could only get
a recorded message to hang up and try a different phone.

Later this month, the FCC is expected to require Vonage Holdings Corp.,
the nation's biggest Internet phone provider, and others to provide a
direct connection to the 911 network, according to commission
officials.

To provide a similar level of 911 service as traditional phones, new
Internet protocols need to be written to allow the transmission of
location data in addition to the voice call. New switching equipment
and routers are also needed. The cost would be far less than the
wireless 911 upgrade. Several companies are offering middleman
solutions to allow Internet phone companies to connect to 911 networks,
and Verizon and SBC have said they'll begin offering some direct
connections to the 911 networks they run to companies like Vonage.

The difficulties involved in upgrading the system can partly be traced
to 911's origin in the late 1960s, when AT&T still ran most of the
country's phone service. In 1968, the company decided to make 911 a
nationwide emergency number. At that time, Los Angeles County had 50
different phone numbers to reach the police; St. Louis had 32 for
police and 57 for fire emergencies, according to the FCC.

Because rescue services fell under local, not federal, oversight,
officials in Washington left it to the cities to set up operator
centers to receive calls to the new number. It took until the late
1990s before 96% of the U.S. had 911 service, but some 200 counties
still don't. Calls to 911 are routed to the nearest emergency call
center. Wireless 911 calls generally get routed based on their location
when the call is made.

Crowded Scene

The breakup of Ma Bell made the picture even more complicated by
spawning dozens of cellular and local-phone companies, all with a role
to play in updating the 911 system. In 1996, the FCC called for
upgrading the nation's entire system within five years to make it able
to pinpoint cellphone callers to within about a 400-foot radius. But
regulators didn't tell individual cellular companies and local
officials how to accomplish this task, or pay for it. As a result, the
deadline wasn't met.

"The wireless carriers were saying, 'We can't do this, our industry is
in its infancy and these costs will stifle growth,' " said Anthony
Haynes, executive director of the Tennessee Emergency Communications
Board. Carriers also worried about liability issues if a 911 call was
lost. Congress indemnified them against this in 1999.

Local-phone companies have presented obstacles, too. Excluded from FCC
talks outlining the upgrades, some wanted to dictate the technology
used in the upgrades to make it compatible with the older systems they
already operated for wired phones. Others tried to profit from their
role as middlemen between the wireless providers and call centers.

In the greater Kansas City, Mo., area, for example, obtaining wireless
911 service from SBC Communications Inc., which provided regular 911
connections, would have cost an additional $2.5 million a year, says
Greg Ballentine, the director of public safety there and president of
the Association of Public-Safety Communications Officials. So officials
opted to buy and manage their own system. An SBC spokesman said the
company never made an official proposal for such service.

Even when money has been earmarked for modernizing 911, it often has
been used for other purposes. This has been true of funds generated by
special fees for upgrading 911 that dozens of states have tacked onto
consumers' monthly phone bills.

New York has diverted more of these funds than any other state. It has
assessed a fee on monthly phone bills for 911 upgrades since 1991,
longer than most states, and has the biggest charge, up to $1.50. But
in a March 2002 report, the state comptroller found that the New York
State Police in 2001 spent money intended for 911 upgrades on items
such as $4.66 million for vehicle leases and purchases, $1.2 million
for maintenance of radio systems, $19,187 for winter boots and more
than $500 for dry cleaning. State officials said all of the expenses
were related to the state police's "public-safety mission," according
to a response to the report.

During a training exercise in 2003, Rochester public-safety officials
determined police and fire units had responded ably to a simulated gas
attack by terrorists at a park concert. According to the drill's
script, the attack had been reported to authorities by a citizen with a
cellphone.

"What if the person calling was overcome by gas before he could tell
them where he is?" asked David Koon, a New York state lawmaker, when
briefed on the drill. Mr. Koon, the father of Jennifer, ran for office
as an advocate of 911 reform after his daughter's death. (Her killer
was eventually caught and sentenced to 37½ years to life in prison.)
City officials conceded the call center wouldn't have been able to
locate the caller because it lacked the proper technology. Rochester
has since upgraded its 911 system.

New York City's 911 problems came under scrutiny in January 2003, when
four boys drowned after calling 911 from a sinking rowboat. Rescuers
didn't start looking until 14 hours later because they couldn't
pinpoint the location of the late-night call. New York City upgraded
its 911 system to receive wireless location information last August.

After nearly two years of wrangling, Congress in December 2004 approved
the creation of a national oversight office to spearhead 911 upgrades
and $250 million a year in federal grants to reward states that don't
divert 911 funds to other purposes. At a conference in early March,
officials from the Transportation and Commerce departments, which would
have jointly run the new central office, said federal belt-tightening
made it unlikely that the new funds or new office would materialize
anytime soon.

"We're stuck with what we've got," William Belote, chief of the
Commerce Department's Emergency Planning and Public Safety Division,
told the conference, noting there was only so much he could do with his
current five-person staff. The budget deficit, he said, makes it "very,
very challenging to get any additional money for the federal grant
program."

-----------------------------------------------------------------

May 12, 2005
Internet Calling's Downside: Failing to Link Callers to 911
Low-Cost Services Gain Popularity, But Regulators Have Concerns;
Routed to Recorded Message
By SHAWN YOUNG
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

When Cheryl Waller's seemingly healthy 3½-month-old daughter, Julia,
suddenly stopped breathing in March, she immediately grabbed the phone
and dialed 911. She repeatedly got a recording that began by saying,
"If this is an emergency, hang up and dial 911."

In a panic, Ms. Waller raced to a neighbor who called 911. But Julia
was dead by the time help arrived.

Ms. Waller, who lives in Deltona, Fla., with her husband and four other
children, didn't get through to 911 because she was receiving her phone
service from Vonage Holdings Corp., an Internet-based phone company
that doesn't connect to 911 the way that most people have come to
expect. "I think we lost our daughter because of this," says Ms.
Waller, who says doctors attributed her daughter's death to sudden
infant death syndrome.

A Vonage spokeswoman says: "Our hearts go out to the Waller family. We
are going to do everything possible to prevent this from happening
again."

Long a security blanket for callers, connecting with 911 service has
become an issue with the advent of new technologies. Emergency
operators, for example, don't always automatically know where a person
is calling from when he or she dials 911 on a cellphone. But the 911
problem is particularly acute with some Internet-based phone service.

Not only is it often difficult for operators to pinpoint where someone
is calling from, but in some cases they never even reach a real 911
operator. That is because calls from some Internet-based phone services
are relegated to what is essentially a second-class status compared
with normal 911.

Calls from these services sometimes ring at general or administrative
numbers at emergency-call centers instead of connecting directly to 911
operators. In some places, those general numbers aren't staffed after
normal business hours. Even when the calls are answered, the person on
the other end may not be a trained emergency operator and can't see the
caller's address automatically.

Ms. Waller wound up at one of those non-emergency phone numbers.

Regulators are growing increasingly concerned about the 911 problem.
Attorneys general in Texas and Connecticut, where consumers also were
unable to reach 911 in life-threatening emergencies, are now suing
Vonage for deceptive advertising. They charge that Vonage -- the
nation's largest Internet calling company with more than 650,000
customers -- doesn't properly alert customers to the shortcomings of
its 911 service.

The problem is also on the Federal Communications Commission's radar
screen. As early as next week, the FCC could announce that it will
require Internet-based phone companies like AT&T Corp'.s CallVantage
and Verizon Communications Inc.'s Voicewing to offer full 911 service.
The logistics of doing that are more complicated for some carriers than
others. AT&T, for instance, also offers conventional service and can
take advantage of its existing facilities in some areas. For all the
affected companies, the process could take time and money.

Lured by prices as low as $14.99 a month for 500 minutes of local and
long-distance calling, more than a million people have replaced their
conventional phones with Internet-based service -- and millions more
are expected to follow in coming years, analysts say. But as Internet
calling takes off, many consumers aren't fully aware of the 911 problem
-- and don't know that among the various Internet-calling services,
there are some big differences. For example, cable companies, some of
which also offer Internet-based calling, don't have the same problems
with 911. That is because the customer's phone number is linked to an
actual address. (As with all Internet-based calling, however, the
service won't work if the power goes out or if the user's Internet
connection is down.)

Permanent solutions to the problem are complicated for technological
and regulatory reasons. Vonage says part of the problem with connecting
its service to 911 is that in many areas the regional Bell companies
control the systems that connect calls to 911, and the Bells have been
reluctant to grant Vonage access to the system. For their part, the
Bells have expressed concerns about keeping the 911 system safe from
hackers. Some industry observers say the disputes largely reflect
differences over the terms of connecting.

Because of recent problems, Vonage is spending millions of dollars to
set up a program, similar to the OnStar system available on General
Motors Corp. vehicles, that would offer emergency callers a live
response. Callers who aren't connected properly with 911 would reach a
rep who would take information and immediately summon help.

"No failure of 911 is ever acceptable," says Jeffrey Citron, Chairman
and CEO of Vonage. He says the company has handled more than 100,000
emergency calls without incident, but "we have a handful of situations
where things didn't go as expected."

Unlike traditional phones, where a wire is plugged into the wall at a
specific address, calls routed over the Internet aren't fixed to a
location. To further complicate matters, some Internet phone providers
let customers choose any area code, and take their numbers with them if
they move or travel. As a result, someone with a Chicago area code, for
example, could actually be calling 911 from Los Angeles.

To get 911 service from some Internet-calling services, customers have
to register their address, on top of the normal signup process. But
even some customers who take that extra step -- as Ms. Waller did --
are surprised to find that their emergency calls are relegated to
second-class status.

Like Ms. Waller, Andrea McClanaghan, of Torrington, Conn., also a
Vonage customer, got a recording when her nine-month-old son, Owen, who
had been ill with a stomach virus, had a seizure.

"He stopped breathing and we couldn't get help for him," says Ms.
McClanaghan, whose son has recovered. "I was hysterical."

They didn't realize that even though they had registered for 911, their
calls to 911 centers could still go unanswered by a human.

New York City has objected strenuously to the practice of sending calls
to general administrative numbers instead of a 911 operator. In a
letter to the FCC last month, city officials said the local 911 system
handles about 30,000 calls a day.

The letter, from the head of the city's department of information
technology and telecommunications, said Vonage and several other
Internet-based companies are, without permission, sending emergency
calls to "a single phone sitting on an administrative desk. The only
relationship of this phone to the city's 911 system is that the desk
happens to be located in the same building where the city's main 911
call center is also located. This phone isn't equipped to serve an
emergency response or public safety function."

Vonage spokeswoman Brooke Schultz said the company has asked repeatedly
for an alternative but got nowhere until recently.

Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal says his office has
gotten 10 to 20 complaints about emergency calls with Internet phone
services. Vonage, he says, buries details about 911 deep down in a very
long "user agreement" that few people take the time to read. "The
disclosures are incomplete and incomprehensible," says Mr. Blumenthal.

Vonage says it is addressing those concerns. "We think our disclosures
are good," says Ms. Schultz, "but we're willing to work with the
attorneys general."

Ms. McClanaghan and Ms. Waller say Vonage customer-service reps were
dismissive when they called to ask why they hadn't been able to reach
911.

In a letter to Florida's Attorney General, Ms. Waller said the Vonage
customer-service representative laughed when she told her that Julia
had died. "She laughed and stated that they were unable to revive a
baby," Ms. Waller says it took the company 11 days to get back to her.
Ms. McClanaghan said it took at least four for her to hear back.

"We've taken corrective action," said Mr. Citron, Vonage's CEO. He said
the company has established a special team to handle customer service
calls related to 911. She said customer-service representatives were
struggling in an unfamiliar situation.

Vonage and other Internet-based carriers say they are working on
solutions that give customers full emergency service. AT&T says it
plans to have full 911 service for about 70% of its Internet calling
customers by the end of the year.

911 HITCHES

Problems that can occur with some Internet-calling services:

Customers forget to register their addresses -- or don't update them
when they move

Customers call 911 but get routed to numbers that may not be answered
by live operators, particularly after hours.

WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR 911 CALL

A look at how the system works using various phone options

TYPE / DESCRIPTION / COMMENT

Traditional Phone / Phone line is linked to a fixed location and call
is connected directly to live emergency operators who automatically see
the caller 's location on a computer screen. / Extremely reliable

Cellphone / Calls to 911 are traced by satellites or other technology.
/ Problems can arise from dropped calls, imprecise location information
and antiquated 911 answering centers.

Internet Calling From Cable Companies / Generally works the same way as
traditional service because the number is linked to a fixed address and
agreements are in place for connecting directly to the 911 system. /
Extremely reliable

Calling From Internet-based Carriers / Caller registers an address
(usually their home address), and a database routes the call to the
emergency center nearest the address. / Even some callers who register
their addresses can have calls sent to non-emergency numbers at 911
centers.

Jer wrote:
> Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer... in
> this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers, explain
> that you have an emergency and need to speak to law enforcement for
> medical assistance in your mother's location. They will make every
> attempt to connect you to the appropriate authority and will stay on the
> line until that happens. Operators have been providing this level of
> service for many years and are glad to help any way they can under these
> circumstances.
>

How do you do that with a cell phone and/or VoIP phone?

Jer wrote:
>
> until excrement occurs. OTOH, if one can simply edit their location
> info via a secure webpage, then that makes things a lot simpler. But
> there are other deal killers in the loop.
>

Is it possible to trace by IP address?

caller -> 911 center -> VoIP phone company -> ISP -> obtain physical
location of service (e.g. DSL/cable)

ptw <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jer wrote:
>> until excrement occurs. OTOH, if one can simply edit their location
>> info via a secure webpage, then that makes things a lot simpler. But
>> there are other deal killers in the loop.
>
> Is it possible to trace by IP address?
>
> caller -> 911 center -> VoIP phone company -> ISP -> obtain physical
> location of service (e.g. DSL/cable)

Sometimes, but by no means always. Some people tunnel, other people connect
through gateways that may not pass on the originating IP address.

Some IP addresses are internal to corporate networks that may not make
detailed geographical information available.

Some people connect by satellite (such as me in rural Thailand at the
moment, even though my IP address appears to be a DSL line in Washington
DC), and it's very hard to make any guesses about where they are unless you
have a list of subscribers and where their dishes were supposed to be
installed.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

In message <[email protected]> ptw
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Jer wrote:
>>
>> until excrement occurs. OTOH, if one can simply edit their location
>> info via a secure webpage, then that makes things a lot simpler. But
>> there are other deal killers in the loop.
>>
>
>Is it possible to trace by IP address?
>
>caller -> 911 center -> VoIP phone company -> ISP -> obtain physical
>location of service (e.g. DSL/cable)

In short, no.


--
If you can remain calm, you just don't have all the facts.

In article <[email protected]>, DevilsPGD <[email protected]> writes:
> In message <[email protected]> [email protected]
> (Gordon Burditt) wrote:
>
>>Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
>>she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
>>phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
>>heart attack, how do I get help for her?
>
> My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to
> get you though to the right place. Maybe.

In my job I work closely with 911 dispatch centers across the country. I can
tell you that if you try this, if they're not very busy they may try to help
you. But it will probably require that they dial 411 information to get the
police/fire phone number for the area where the victim is. They may be able to
do an online search, or they may be able to send an NLETS (national law
enforcement tracking system) administrative message asking for the number. But
sadly our "first responders" are NOT networked together very well. I blame the
beaurocrats who like to talk big about how important our first responders are,
but fail to pony up the funds to make it possible.

Sharon

>Tony P. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Which is precisely why I block 411 with my Mitel SMART-1 controller. It
>>just wasn't worth Vonage's buck a pop to get an incorrect listing.

On Sat, 21 May 2005 23:14:17 -0700, Garry W <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Just connect it to Infone instead. The regular directory assistance around
>here is pitiful/horrible/usually wrong (I'm thinking especially of Verizon.)
>
>But Infone is great.
>
>It's that same buck a pop (well, 89 cents now), but sometimes you're talking
>to an operator who's actually =been= to "that diner on Broadway" you can't
>quite remember the name of (did that), and always you can ask things like "I
>know there's a Target store around here somewhere, but I can't quite find it
>-- can you guide me in?" (been there, done that too.)
>
>Sign up at www.infone.com, then put 888-411-1111 on your VoIP speed-dial.
>
>shamelessly shilling,


I use them occasionally, when I can't find a number with SMS messaging to 46645
to have Google look it up. Infone's a quality service, and cheaper than the
idiots who service the ILECs. Recommended.

No connection, except as a customer, BTW.



--
John Bartley K7AAY 503.326.2231...147
telecom syadmin, USBC-Oregon, Portland - Views are mine.
http://palmwireless.cjb.net Wireless FAQ for PalmOS(r)
Dilbert is a documentary.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> In article <[email protected]>, DevilsPGD <[email protected]> writes:
> > In message <[email protected]> [email protected]
> > (Gordon Burditt) wrote:
> >
> >>Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
> >>she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
> >>phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
> >>heart attack, how do I get help for her?
> >
> > My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to
> > get you though to the right place. Maybe.
>
> In my job I work closely with 911 dispatch centers across the country. I can
> tell you that if you try this, if they're not very busy they may try to help
> you. But it will probably require that they dial 411 information to get the
> police/fire phone number for the area where the victim is. They may be able to
> do an online search, or they may be able to send an NLETS (national law
> enforcement tracking system) administrative message asking for the number. But
> sadly our "first responders" are NOT networked together very well. I blame the
> beaurocrats who like to talk big about how important our first responders are,
> but fail to pony up the funds to make it possible.

NLETS terminates in just about every state police HQ. From there it's
distributed to the municipalities. For instance, in Rhode Island the
NLETS connection passed through to municipalities and the AG's office as
RILETS.