Orange Customer Retention

In message <[email protected]>, Ivor Jones
<[email protected]> writes
>
>
>"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>
>I just can't understand why they offer handset subsidy. If people paid a
>realistic price for a phone, they wouldn't feel the need to "upgrade" it
>every 5 minutes and a lot more money would be available to improve the
>*network* rather than pay sales staff to flog pretty pink phones to
>teenage girls at silly prices.
>
>Call charges might come down as well.
>
Way to logical possibly, but what would happen?

No handset subsidy could mean people buying their handsets elsewhere
(provided of course that others were still offering subsidised phones).
That may tie people to contracts elsewhere depending on what deal they
went for.

The company not subsidising the phones could improve service levels and
reduce call charges as their income would no longer have to pay for
subsidised hand sets. That may attract the heavy users which is, we are
told, the market that they are after. So why don't they do it?
--
Paul Harris

---

› See More: Orange Customer Retention

>
> Collectively, you and people like you will make up the majority of the
> company's income. Individually though, you aren't worth saving.
>

Actually, corporate accounts, private wires (leased lines) and data
networking contracts make up, by far, the majority of the income for the
mobile telecoms industry. Consumer accounts (oiks like you or me) are almost
a by-product.

Churn rate (customers leaving/new customers) of consumers is a measurment
that is is used as a service level, but increasing the new customer levels
is the holy grail!

Reply to address is valid on this account.
However, it's only checked once a week.

Timfy wrote:
>
> Actually, corporate accounts, private wires (leased lines) and data
> networking contracts make up, by far, the majority of the income for the
> mobile telecoms industry. Consumer accounts (oiks like you or me) are almost
> a by-product.

Are you excluding business accounts from the above statement?

I've no access to figures to back this up, and I could well be wrong..
But I'll stick my neck out and say I doubt this.

A big corporate like Coca-Cola may have a spend of £.5m a month, but it
only takes 20,000 'normal' users to spend £25/m to balance this out.

If normal accounts mattered so little, you wouldn't see mobile phone
shops on the high street, or ringtone adverts on the telly.

I'd go so far as to say that without consumer accounts, there would be
very little of a mobile telecoms industry. It may be corporates and
business that start the ball rolling, but it's the folk at home that
companies want as a customer.

It's for that all important Joe Bloggs that technology develops. Look
at the phones for sale today. Cameras, built-in MP3 and fancy ringtones
weren't invented for corporates. They're all using 6310i's in ye olde
Nokia car kits.

Same thing as the Internet. ADSL was invented to get people on board
that weren't already. Those of us using the Internet on dial-up were
already convinced and using it, no need to convince us to buy into it.

"gsc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm on anytime 60 (out of contract for over a year) and my bills are
> around the £20-25 mark, so any attempt to upgrade my phone is usually
> met with a large asking price.

> I heard that asking for a PAC would result in them trying to convince
> me to stay with orange, but no - conversation went roughly as follows:
> "Can I have my PAC please"
> "which network are you thinking of transferring to"
> "Vodafone"
> "Certainly, the PAC will be sent to your mobile shortly and is valid
> for 30 days"

> That was it - no "why are you leaving orange", or "what might persuade
> you to stay". Is this normal? Are they no longer interested in keeping
> customers, or just not the ones with bills under £25? <SNIP>


I dunno... I spend £300 - £360 a year on my BT phone bill, but they won't
give me a free DECT phone every 12 months....

Live with it... The networks are not obliged to replace your phone every 12
months free of charge. Sky tie you into a 12 month contract with a free
digibox. Try upgrading after 12 months! Nah! No dice!!

Simon

"Paul Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, Colin Forrester
> <[email protected]> writes
>>Perhaps they are keen to churn those older customers?
>>
> It isn't what they say in their adverts though so perhaps there is a
> complete lack of communication between CS, retention's and Marketing. Paul
> Harris
>
You've hit the nail on the head, it was Snook who was the hub of
communication, and coordinater at Orange.
Without him one dept has no idea what the others are doing, or able to form
policy

Steve Terry

[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> The company not subsidising the phones could improve service levels and
> reduce call charges as their income would no longer have to pay for
> subsidised hand sets. That may attract the heavy users which is, we are
> told, the market that they are after. So why don't they do it?

Because whoever does it first will have a crappy few months waiting (and
praying) for the others to follow suit.
--
Regards
Jon

gsc wrote:

> I'm on anytime 60 (out of contract for over a year) and my bills are
> around the £20-25 mark, so any attempt to upgrade my phone is usually
> met with a large asking price.
>
> I heard that asking for a PAC would result in them trying to convince
> me to stay with orange, but no - conversation went roughly as follows:
> "Can I have my PAC please"
> "which network are you thinking of transferring to"
> "Vodafone"
> "Certainly, the PAC will be sent to your mobile shortly and is valid
> for 30 days"
>
> That was it - no "why are you leaving orange", or "what might persuade
> you to stay". Is this normal? Are they no longer interested in keeping
> customers, or just not the ones with bills under £25?
>
> I'm curious as to whether anyone has heard of anything similar - or
> whether I should actually ring up the customer retention department and
> ask them directly. I'm actually looking to upgrade to the motorola V3X
> which is out on vodafone and three already, and shortly to be released
> on Orange and want to get the best deal, whilst keeping my number.
>
> Any advice?
>
Have you thought about looking at mercurymobile.co.uk ?
200 x-net anytime mins/month for £90 for 2 years (Thats a one off £90
charge)

"Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "neo1ite" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
> [snip]
>
>> In all fairness to Orange, a user who spends £25 a month
>> probably isn't worth keeping
>
> But how many thousand of these users are there..? That's still a lot of
> money. What if they all decided to leave at once..?
>
> Ivor
>
But the OP said he was going over to Voda, when ever I have compared thier
prices with other networks I have found them to be more expensive (ie, more
money for less inclusive minutes). Also found the customer service crap on
voda. Wife wanted to upgrade a phone a couple of years ago so she could
start to use MMS. She was told that she would have to upgrade her tariff too
as they no longer offered her current tariff.. She was paying £17 700 off
peak mins, which at the time was a good deal. There was no way she could use
MMS on her existing tariff. The next available tariff was £25 for 200
minutes. Voda got told to sod off and we went to orange

So maybe retentions know that he is bluffing as he is wanting to go to what
is seen as been a more expensive network.

Steve

In message <[email protected]>, Jon
<[email protected]> writes
>[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
>> The company not subsidising the phones could improve service levels and
>> reduce call charges as their income would no longer have to pay for
>> subsidised hand sets. That may attract the heavy users which is, we are
>> told, the market that they are after. So why don't they do it?
>
>Because whoever does it first will have a crappy few months waiting (and
>praying) for the others to follow suit.

A few poor months could well be followed by a mass influx as people
migrated bringing their phones with them and subscribing to the new
improved cheaper service. Agreed the other companies would probably
follow a similar route if they saw it was working but there would
certainly be a first mover advantage for whoever did it.

I suppose it depends on how success is measured, it seems to be a matter
of new subscribers rather than the bottom line which is how I would
measure it. I don't see how customer churn really helps them but they
seem to think that smoke and mirrors is all that is required.
--
Paul Harris

My phone is 2 and a half years old and is beginning to show signs that
it won't last too much longer. It's not as if I'm upgrading every year
- only when I need to. Ah well, I'm off to vodafone (who gave a
sensible offer) and will migrate my wife's PAYG phone over too to save
on x-network charges.

>> But the OP said he was going over to Voda, when ever I have compared thier
>> prices with other networks I have found them to be more expensive (ie, more
>> money for less inclusive minutes).

Currently paying Orange £19 per month for 60 mins or I can upgrade to
120 mins at £25 per month.
Vodafone offered me 75 mins at £16 per month or 125 at £20 per month

Re the upgrade.... I have no issue in paying the going rate for a
phone, but Orange want to charge virtually the same price as sim-free
for a phone plus 12 month contract.

On 3 Jan 2006 08:52:32 -0800, "gsc" <[email protected]> wrote:

>That was it - no "why are you leaving orange", or "what might persuade
>you to stay". Is this normal? Are they no longer interested in keeping
>customers, or just not the ones with bills under £25?

PAC used to be handled by a special dept on top pay and with a bounty
on those customers they managed to persuade to stay.

PAC is now handled by helpdesk staff who have 15 minutes training in
PAC management. That's not the problem, it's apparently easy enough to
do but I guess without any incentive helpdesk staff think, "Why
bother?", and PACs are given without any contest.

All this was alleged to me by a stranger I met in a pub once, who told
me he read it on the internet ...


--

Joe Chip : [email protected]

Jon wrote:
> [email protected]lid declared for all the world to hear...
>
>>lots of
>>income but virtually no costs to keep them on.
>
>
> Apart form the massive initial commission paid to OSPS of course.

I meant virtually no costs after the 12 months were up and OSPS were out
of the picture. When you look at it that way, it makes a lot of sense
to keep someone like me as a customer.

John.

My phone is almost 2.5 years old (since last contract renewal) and is
on its last legs. I have no issue in paying the going rate for a phone,
but Orange want to charge virtually the same price as sim-free for a
phone plus 12 month contract.

On 6 Jan 2006 03:30:13 -0800, "gsc" <[email protected]> wrote:

>My phone is 2 and a half years old and is beginning to show signs that
>it won't last too much longer.

Yikes! What make is it?

The oldest phones I still have working are Nokia 2410s, new in 1994.
The reason the older phones are not working is that they are analogue,
not that they wore out.

My daughter has worn the plastic off the power switch of her v3688 but
that's because she switches it off regularly.

--

Iain
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