Orange Customer Retention

I'm on anytime 60 (out of contract for over a year) and my bills are
around the £20-25 mark, so any attempt to upgrade my phone is usually
met with a large asking price.

I heard that asking for a PAC would result in them trying to convince
me to stay with orange, but no - conversation went roughly as follows:
"Can I have my PAC please"
"which network are you thinking of transferring to"
"Vodafone"
"Certainly, the PAC will be sent to your mobile shortly and is valid
for 30 days"

That was it - no "why are you leaving orange", or "what might persuade
you to stay". Is this normal? Are they no longer interested in keeping
customers, or just not the ones with bills under £25?

I'm curious as to whether anyone has heard of anything similar - or
whether I should actually ring up the customer retention department and
ask them directly. I'm actually looking to upgrade to the motorola V3X
which is out on vodafone and three already, and shortly to be released
on Orange and want to get the best deal, whilst keeping my number.

Any advice?

---

› See More: Orange Customer Retention

"gsc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I'm on anytime 60 (out of contract for over a year) and my bills are
>around the £20-25 mark, so any attempt to upgrade my phone is usually
>met with a large asking price.
>
>I heard that asking for a PAC would result in them trying to convince
>me to stay with orange, but no - conversation went roughly as follows:
>"Can I have my PAC please"
>"which network are you thinking of transferring to"
>"Vodafone"
>"Certainly, the PAC will be sent to your mobile shortly and is valid
>for 30 days"
>
>That was it - no "why are you leaving orange", or "what might persuade
>you to stay". Is this normal? Are they no longer interested in keeping
>customers, or just not the ones with bills under £25?
>Any advice?

In all fairness to Orange, a user who spends £25 a month probably isn't
worth keeping

--
Matt
http://www.matt-holland.org

"neo1ite" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

[snip]

> In all fairness to Orange, a user who spends £25 a month
> probably isn't worth keeping

But how many thousand of these users are there..? That's still a lot of
money. What if they all decided to leave at once..?

Ivor

In message <[email protected]>, neo1ite
<[email protected]> writes
>"gsc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I'm on anytime 60 (out of contract for over a year) and my bills are
>>around the £20-25 mark, so any attempt to upgrade my phone is usually
>>met with a large asking price.
>>
>>I heard that asking for a PAC would result in them trying to convince
>>me to stay with orange, but no - conversation went roughly as follows:
>>"Can I have my PAC please"
>>"which network are you thinking of transferring to"
>>"Vodafone"
>>"Certainly, the PAC will be sent to your mobile shortly and is valid
>>for 30 days"
>>
>>That was it - no "why are you leaving orange", or "what might persuade
>>you to stay". Is this normal? Are they no longer interested in keeping
>>customers, or just not the ones with bills under £25?
>>Any advice?
>
>In all fairness to Orange, a user who spends £25 a month probably isn't
>worth keeping
>
Whilst I spend rather more than that he is still paying 300 p.a. for 60
mins a month. If it isn't worth having someone spending GBP300 as a
customer how come there are so many deals with more minutes than that
for 300 or less?

I don't know how it works but I would think that if it is worth offering
a deal to new customers then surely it must be worth trying to retain
someone at the same level of spend.
--
Paul Harris

"Paul Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, neo1ite
> <[email protected]> writes
>>"gsc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>>I'm on anytime 60 (out of contract for over a year) and my bills are
>>>around the £20-25 mark, so any attempt to upgrade my phone is usually
>>>met with a large asking price.
>>>
>>>I heard that asking for a PAC would result in them trying to convince
>>>me to stay with orange, but no - conversation went roughly as follows:
>>>"Can I have my PAC please"
>>>"which network are you thinking of transferring to"
>>>"Vodafone"
>>>"Certainly, the PAC will be sent to your mobile shortly and is valid
>>>for 30 days"
>>>
>>>That was it - no "why are you leaving orange", or "what might persuade
>>>you to stay". Is this normal? Are they no longer interested in keeping
>>>customers, or just not the ones with bills under £25?
>>>Any advice?
>>
>>In all fairness to Orange, a user who spends £25 a month probably isn't
>>worth keeping
>>
> Whilst I spend rather more than that he is still paying 300 p.a. for 60
> mins a month. If it isn't worth having someone spending GBP300 as a
> customer how come there are so many deals with more minutes than that for
> 300 or less?
>
> I don't know how it works but I would think that if it is worth offering a
> deal to new customers then surely it must be worth trying to retain
> someone at the same level of spend.
> --
> Paul Harris

I guess the logic of it is that Orange hope new customers will spend more
trying out the features, etc. Existing customers know what services they
want, and know what Orange have to offer, so liklihood is they won't
explore!??

Also, they have cheap plans in the hope that people will go outside the
bundle with their minutes and texts, Orange then make more money, customer
realises needs to but more minutes, so increases tariff = more line rental
for Orange, and the circle revolves. Orange can tell from GSC's spending
pattern that he doesnt do this!

--
Matt
http://www.matt-holland.org
I got the disk full message when downloading http://*.*

neo1ite wrote:
> "gsc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I'm on anytime 60 (out of contract for over a year) and my bills are
>>around the £20-25 mark, so any attempt to upgrade my phone is usually
>>met with a large asking price.
>>
>>I heard that asking for a PAC would result in them trying to convince
>>me to stay with orange, but no - conversation went roughly as follows:
>>"Can I have my PAC please"
>>"which network are you thinking of transferring to"
>>"Vodafone"
>>"Certainly, the PAC will be sent to your mobile shortly and is valid
>>for 30 days"
>>
>>That was it - no "why are you leaving orange", or "what might persuade
>>you to stay". Is this normal? Are they no longer interested in keeping
>>customers, or just not the ones with bills under £25?
>>Any advice?
>
>
> In all fairness to Orange, a user who spends £25 a month probably isn't
> worth keeping
>
My wife had a nokia 7110, which was dying of old age - on Everyday 50. I
went into an Orange shop and was tols that an upgrade to nokia 6230
would cost £99 adna change of tariff. I rang Orange and asked what they
could do, handed the phone to my wife, who came back about 10minutes
later, with a free upgrade and no tarrif change, so it can be done!

gsc wrote:
> I'm on anytime 60 (out of contract for over a year) and my bills are
> around the £20-25 mark, so any attempt to upgrade my phone is usually
> met with a large asking price.
>
> I heard that asking for a PAC would result in them trying to convince
> me to stay with orange, but no - conversation went roughly as follows:
> "Can I have my PAC please"
> "which network are you thinking of transferring to"
> "Vodafone"
> "Certainly, the PAC will be sent to your mobile shortly and is valid
> for 30 days"
>
> That was it - no "why are you leaving orange", or "what might persuade
> you to stay". Is this normal? Are they no longer interested in keeping
> customers, or just not the ones with bills under £25?

Collectively, you and people like you will make up the majority of the
company's income. Individually though, you aren't worth saving.

'Save tools' like reduced rental, better phones and all that are used on
the people who swell the coffers. Unfortunately, every company is in
business to make money and if you don't help, they'll hurry you along.

It may suck, but on the flip side of the coin, I spend a lot more than
you do a month and I want those offers you're talking about! If you
were offered the same as me, I'd wonder what the company was doing to
keep me happy!

gsc wrote:

> That was it - no "why are you leaving orange", or "what might persuade
> you to stay". Is this normal? Are they no longer interested in keeping
> customers, or just not the ones with bills under £25?

My wife was an Orange customer - charges were about £250-280 per month -
around half roaming charges. She was asked to pay £50.00 for an upgrade
and they wouldn't waive it. Got her PAC by text following that call and
is now with Vodafone. Post-PAC she got a letter telling her how keen
they were for her to reconsider etc. - but it is a standard letter I've
seen before.

I think Orange sometimes shoot themselves in the foot - but it may be
because she was on a "ring-fenced" tariff that gave inclusive 870 number
calls. Perhaps they are keen to churn those older customers?

In message <[email protected]>, neo1ite
<[email protected]> writes
>
>"Paul Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In message <[email protected]>, neo1ite
>> <[email protected]> writes
>>>"gsc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>I'm on anytime 60 (out of contract for over a year) and my bills are
>>>>around the £20-25 mark, so any attempt to upgrade my phone is usually
>>>>met with a large asking price.
>>>>
>>>>I heard that asking for a PAC would result in them trying to convince
>>>>me to stay with orange, but no
<snip>
>>>
>>>In all fairness to Orange, a user who spends £25 a month probably isn't
>>>worth keeping
>>>
>> Whilst I spend rather more than that he is still paying 300 p.a. for 60
>> mins a month. If it isn't worth having someone spending GBP300 as a
>> customer how come there are so many deals with more minutes than that for
>> 300 or less?
>>
>> I don't know how it works but I would think that if it is worth offering a
>> deal to new customers then surely it must be worth trying to retain
>> someone at the same level of spend.
>
>I guess the logic of it is that Orange hope new customers will spend more
>trying out the features, etc. Existing customers know what services they
>want, and know what Orange have to offer, so liklihood is they won't
>explore!??
>
So how does that explain offering new phones to those on OVP Virgin?

>Also, they have cheap plans in the hope that people will go outside the
>bundle with their minutes and texts, Orange then make more money, customer
>realises needs to but more minutes, so increases tariff = more line rental
>for Orange, and the circle revolves. Orange can tell from GSC's spending
>pattern that he doesnt do this!
>
So all he really needs to do is to sign up for something like OVP Voda
100 as a new customer and he can get a new phone and 100 minutes for GBP
22 p.m. and if he shops around for a cash back deal it will probably be
even less than that. I don't see how that is better for Orange than
offering him something similar to stay but I am sure that they know
best!
--
Paul Harris

In message <[email protected]>, Colin Forrester
<[email protected]> writes
>Perhaps they are keen to churn those older customers?
>
It isn't what they say in their adverts though so perhaps there is a
complete lack of communication between CS, retention's and Marketing.
--
Paul Harris

gsc wrote:
>
> I'm curious as to whether anyone has heard of anything similar - or
> whether I should actually ring up the customer retention department and
> ask them directly. I'm actually looking to upgrade to the motorola V3X
> which is out on vodafone and three already, and shortly to be released
> on Orange and want to get the best deal, whilst keeping my number.

Had exactly the same yesterday, currently on YP120 which I only got for
the cashback OSPS was offering (the contract cost me £75 plus a bit of
GPRS for the full year, with a free SPV C500).

Had they offered me a decent upgrade then I might have stayed ($99 for a
K750i!), but given my call spend (tiny) I'm porting to Voda PAYG.

Last year, Phones4U at least pretended to grovel a bit, and I wasn't
spending any more then either.

You'd have thought that a customer paying their line rental but not
using much in the way of phone service would be gold dust - lots of
income but virtually no costs to keep them on.

John.

[email protected]lid declared for all the world to hear...
> > In all fairness to Orange, a user who spends £25 a month
> > probably isn't worth keeping

It's worse than that, it's probably costs money to keep them. maybe not
if they don't upgrade very often however.

> But how many thousand of these users are there..? That's still a lot of
> money. What if they all decided to leave at once..?

Orange would let some other network subsidise them for a year, and then
welcome them back as a "new customer" in 12 months time when they get
offered another similar upgrade offer.
--
Regards
Jon

[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> I don't know how it works but I would think that if it is worth offering
> a deal to new customers then surely it must be worth trying to retain
> someone at the same level of spend.

You are right in theory, however if the original offer is a money loser,
then it doesn't make sense to offer it again.

Why they offer money losers in the first place is a mystery to me.
--
Regards
Jon

[email protected]lid declared for all the world to hear...
> lots of
> income but virtually no costs to keep them on.

Apart form the massive initial commission paid to OSPS of course.
--
Regards
Jon

"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> [email protected] declared for all the world to
> hear...
> > I don't know how it works but I would think that if it
> > is worth offering a deal to new customers then surely
> > it must be worth trying to retain someone at the same
> > level of spend.
>
> You are right in theory, however if the original offer is
> a money loser, then it doesn't make sense to offer it
> again.
>
> Why they offer money losers in the first place is a
> mystery to me.

I just can't understand why they offer handset subsidy. If people paid a
realistic price for a phone, they wouldn't feel the need to "upgrade" it
every 5 minutes and a lot more money would be available to improve the
*network* rather than pay sales staff to flog pretty pink phones to
teenage girls at silly prices.

Call charges might come down as well.

Ivor