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- 01-30-2006, 01:08 PM #1KalicoGuest
A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his
Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send.
It's bad enough for the Police to be involved and it would be helpful
to know if the network keep details of the texts.
My first thoughts are that they are unlikely to keep the content of
the texts but might keep a record of the fact that a text was sent
from a certain phone at a certain time. Is that correct? Also, would
there be a record of which number any message was sent to?
TIA for any advice.
Rob
› See More: What records do networks keep on texts?
- 01-30-2006, 02:20 PM #2KalicoGuest
Re: What records do networks keep on texts?
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:12:56 +0000, Brian Morrison
<[email protected]> wrote:
[snip]
>
>I think you will find that VM will have complete records of every and
>all texts sent from that number. There have been plenty of cases where
>police have been provided with detailed information held by network
>operators on all aspects of usage including records showing the phone
>status, location updates, camped-on cell etc etc.
>
>Is your friend certain that his phone has not been in someone else's
>possession, or left where someone else could use it? If it turns out
>that the records show it was his SIM card and IMEI that originated these
>texts then he will need to be able to demonstrate that someone else
>actually sent them.
Thanks for that. It would be great if they kept all the details. Not
sure how long they might keep them for though. Do you have any idea?
It seems unlikely they will keep the content of the message (that
would be ideal if they did), but at least if we can ask the Police to
get 'envelope' details then that would be something.
At the moment, he has a situation were someone has made an allegation
to the Police and the only evidence is that they walked into the
Police station and 'showed' the counter officer the text on their
mobile. The office duly noted that there appeared to be a text from
my friend and wrote down what it said.
However, my understanding is that you can make a handset show pretty
much whatever you want it to do and certainly appear to receive a text
message from someone else.
The solicitors involved are also troubled by the fact that the desk
officer then handed the phone back to the complainant, when they
really ought to have kept the handset as evidence and had it sent to
some expert to determine what was really on it.
Naturally, the records that Virgin might keep will carry much more
weight, particularly if it can be proved that a text was or was not
sent at a particular time.
Cheers.
- 01-30-2006, 03:03 PM #3johnGuest
Re: What records do networks keep on texts?
"Kalico" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his
> Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send.
>
> It's bad enough for the Police to be involved and it would be helpful
> to know if the network keep details of the texts.
>
> My first thoughts are that they are unlikely to keep the content of
> the texts but might keep a record of the fact that a text was sent
> from a certain phone at a certain time. Is that correct? Also, would
> there be a record of which number any message was sent to?
>
> TIA for any advice.
> Rob
>
The network keeps records for about 5 years of ALL text messages (full
content of each by the way), ALL calls to and from a phone and which IMEI
numbers are matched to which mobile numbers - it is all cross referenced so
stolen mobiles are easy to spot. Companies refuse to take action as it
means loss of revenue. Your friend would have had his mobile taken by
police and sent to one of the authorised companies so it could also be
inspected.
Information like this is NOT disclosed to or available to people working for
the company or they might misuse it. It IS available to police during a
criminal investigation after they obtain a Production Order and serve it on
the mobile company. They will supply the info requested without a problem,
seen it loads of times. They even supply data stating which cell was used
at each end of the call and the areas. So it is quite comprehensive.
If your mate has done something wrong they will find out, if not then the
other person should be prosecuted. The police would only have approached
your friend if they already had evidence, so it's not looking good!
If there was no evidence then he wouldn't have even heard from the police.
The only exception is when someone of the rank of Chief Constable makes a
request, no production order is required, but there must be a good reason
such as life or death.
- 01-30-2006, 03:31 PM #4Ian StirlingGuest
Re: What records do networks keep on texts?
Kalico <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:12:56 +0000, Brian Morrison
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>>I think you will find that VM will have complete records of every and
>>all texts sent from that number. There have been plenty of cases where
>>police have been provided with detailed information held by network
<snip>
> It seems unlikely they will keep the content of the message (that
> would be ideal if they did), but at least if we can ask the Police to
> get 'envelope' details then that would be something.
The volume of text messages is not huge.
Sat 20m texting phones in the UK, 1000 texts/year.
20 billion a year*160 bytes is only 20 hard disks a year.
- 01-30-2006, 03:51 PM #5KalicoGuest
Re: What records do networks keep on texts?
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:03:47 GMT, "john" <[email protected]> wrote:
[snip]
>The network keeps records for about 5 years of ALL text messages (full
>content of each by the way), ALL calls to and from a phone and which IMEI
>numbers are matched to which mobile numbers - it is all cross referenced so
>stolen mobiles are easy to spot. Companies refuse to take action as it
>means loss of revenue. Your friend would have had his mobile taken by
>police and sent to one of the authorised companies so it could also be
>inspected.
>Information like this is NOT disclosed to or available to people working for
>the company or they might misuse it. It IS available to police during a
>criminal investigation after they obtain a Production Order and serve it on
>the mobile company. They will supply the info requested without a problem,
>seen it loads of times. They even supply data stating which cell was used
>at each end of the call and the areas. So it is quite comprehensive.
>If your mate has done something wrong they will find out, if not then the
>other person should be prosecuted. The police would only have approached
>your friend if they already had evidence, so it's not looking good!
>If there was no evidence then he wouldn't have even heard from the police.
>The only exception is when someone of the rank of Chief Constable makes a
>request, no production order is required, but there must be a good reason
>such as life or death.
>
This is excellent information John and very comprehensive. I think it
will be just what he wants to hear so thanks very much for your help.
Rob
- 01-30-2006, 04:26 PM #6Guest
Re: What records do networks keep on texts?
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:20:53 +0000, Kalico <[email protected]> wrote:
>At the moment, he has a situation were someone has made an allegation
>to the Police and the only evidence is that they walked into the
>Police station and 'showed' the counter officer the text on their
>mobile. The office duly noted that there appeared to be a text from
>my friend and wrote down what it said.
That can be faked. The network's records can't, though.
--
Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!
- 01-30-2006, 05:10 PM #7TaylorGuest
Re: What records do networks keep on texts?
"Kalico" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for that. It would be great if they kept all the details. Not
> sure how long they might keep them for though. Do you have any idea?
>
> It seems unlikely they will keep the content of the message (that
> would be ideal if they did), but at least if we can ask the Police to
> get 'envelope' details then that would be something.
>
> At the moment, he has a situation were someone has made an allegation
> to the Police and the only evidence is that they walked into the
> Police station and 'showed' the counter officer the text on their
> mobile. The office duly noted that there appeared to be a text from
> my friend and wrote down what it said.
>
> However, my understanding is that you can make a handset show pretty
> much whatever you want it to do and certainly appear to receive a text
> message from someone else.
....but the originating network, ie: your friend's mobile and sim card, will
be logged by both networks involved.
They *do* keep records of text-bodies, they're only 160 characters, that's
nothing, even with the thousands sent, the systems the mobile phone
companies use can store these no bother. So, if he sent something, it *will*
be logged.
- 01-30-2006, 09:52 PM #8Marcus FoxGuest
Re: What records do networks keep on texts?
"Kalico" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his
> Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send.
>
> It's bad enough for the Police to be involved and it would be helpful
> to know if the network keep details of the texts.
>
> My first thoughts are that they are unlikely to keep the content of
> the texts but might keep a record of the fact that a text was sent
> from a certain phone at a certain time. Is that correct? Also, would
> there be a record of which number any message was sent to?
>
> TIA for any advice.
> Rob
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/03/text_punk/
Marcus
- 01-31-2006, 03:00 AM #9David HearnGuest
Re: What records do networks keep on texts?
john wrote:
> "Kalico" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his
>>Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send.
>>
>>It's bad enough for the Police to be involved and it would be helpful
>>to know if the network keep details of the texts.
>>
>>My first thoughts are that they are unlikely to keep the content of
>>the texts but might keep a record of the fact that a text was sent
>>from a certain phone at a certain time. Is that correct? Also, would
>>there be a record of which number any message was sent to?
>>
>>TIA for any advice.
>>Rob
>>
>
> The network keeps records for about 5 years of ALL text messages (full
> content of each by the way), ALL calls to and from a phone and which IMEI
> numbers are matched to which mobile numbers - it is all cross referenced so
> stolen mobiles are easy to spot. Companies refuse to take action as it
> means loss of revenue. Your friend would have had his mobile taken by
> police and sent to one of the authorised companies so it could also be
> inspected.
> Information like this is NOT disclosed to or available to people working for
> the company or they might misuse it.
Someone working for a network operator CAN view text messages being sent.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/11...ighlighted_by/
"Nourse obtained proof of his girlfriends' infidelity by persuading two
friends, employees at O2, to intercept her text messages and pass them
on to him."
D
- 01-31-2006, 03:59 AM #10KalicoGuest
Re: What records do networks keep on texts?
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 03:52:22 GMT, "Marcus Fox"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Kalico" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his
>> Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send.
>>
>> It's bad enough for the Police to be involved and it would be helpful
>> to know if the network keep details of the texts.
>>
>> My first thoughts are that they are unlikely to keep the content of
>> the texts but might keep a record of the fact that a text was sent
>> from a certain phone at a certain time. Is that correct? Also, would
>> there be a record of which number any message was sent to?
>>
>> TIA for any advice.
>> Rob
>
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/03/text_punk/
>
>Marcus
>
It's a scary world we live in - and I don't mean because of the
terrorists.
Do you think I will now have the Police around to my door in half an
hour?
- 01-31-2006, 04:44 AM #11The DroneGuest
Re: What records do networks keep on texts?
In article <[email protected]>, Kalico
<[email protected]> writes
>It's a scary world we live in - and I don't mean because of the
>terrorists.
Quite so. I'm quite a laid back kind of guy about most things but I'm
increasingly concerned about the direction all this monitoring and
control is heading.
>Do you think I will now have the Police around to my door in half an
>hour?
I doubt it'll be that quick. Perhaps in a few weeks someone with a
tenuous link to you might get woken in their beds at 5am. They might
even get shot.
--
Peter
- 01-31-2006, 07:37 AM #12Ian StirlingGuest
Re: What records do networks keep on texts?
[email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:20:53 +0000, Kalico <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>At the moment, he has a situation were someone has made an allegation
>>to the Police and the only evidence is that they walked into the
>>Police station and 'showed' the counter officer the text on their
>>mobile. The office duly noted that there appeared to be a text from
>>my friend and wrote down what it said.
>
> That can be faked. The network's records can't, though.
"can't nearly as easily", rather than just can't.
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