Rights if 18866 suspend service incorrectly?

Lem wrote:
> On 14 May 2006, Steve Walker<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Lem wrote:
>>
>>> I can fairly confidently say that a great many people on the net
>>> are ineterested in how 18866 behaves
>>
>> Not me...
>
> You must be a dumb **** or bored witless if you read stuff that
> doesn't interest you.

Yeah, both actually. What's your point?

---

› See More: Rights if 18866 suspend service incorrectly?

On Sun, 14 May 2006 17:06:32 +0100, Lem <[email protected]> wrote:

>I can fairly confidently say that a great many people on the net are
>ineterested in how 18866 behaves as many of them are customers and wish
>to avoid such problems for themselves.

That may be true, but cross-posting it UKTM takes it well out of the
area where people who are interested enough will look.

Face facts: 18866 were offering really cheap calls, but are not even
competitive with their own products now. So they've decided that they
don't want you as a customer. Not nice, but it's their choice. If you
want to grumble about it, please find the right place.
uk.telecom.mobile is NOT the right place.

--

Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!

<[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sun, 14 May 2006 17:06:32 +0100, Lem <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I can fairly confidently say that a great many people on the net are
> >ineterested in how 18866 behaves as many of them are customers and wish
> >to avoid such problems for themselves.
>
> That may be true, but cross-posting it UKTM takes it well out of the
> area where people who are interested enough will look.

It perhaps had a bit more relevance when Orange still had free freephone
calls!

> Face facts: 18866 were offering really cheap calls, but are not even
> competitive with their own products now.

I noted that the same company's UK mobile callthrough has increased to
3p a minute now, but the quality seems as good. It was quite heady
making peak daytime calls at 2p a minute from a BT landline (though
there is BT's minimum 5p charge.)

> So they've decided that they
> don't want you as a customer. Not nice, but it's their choice.

It also might be that they run at such low margins they have practically
no customer service, and once service is cut off, it's cheaper to
permanently lose a future customer than to bother looking into
reconnecting barred numbers or accounts.

--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org

How does this compare to 18866/1899/18185:

I see that the government's Distance Selling Regs says in the E-commerce
checklist:

You must give your customers the following information:

the full name and contact details of your business
including the geographic address at which you
are established and an email address where
consumers can contact you readily and effectively

Quaoted from "Home Shopping: Distance Selling Regulations"
in PDF format:

<http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/1...BB0-4374-A65B-
6281E030C3C9/0/oft698.pdf>
or
<http://tinyurl.com/zw5ra>


Maybe I will just ask Trading Standards to sort it out. The benefit
might be (hoping!) that 18866/1899/18185 have to come out of hiding and
make themselves accessible to all their other customers too.

Lem <[email protected]> wrote:
> I suspect that 18866 are allowed to suspend service for who they want
> to. But will 18866 they also put a black mark on my credit record?

No.

> Is there any law or regulation which prevents someone taking out a
> penalty on me on account of someone else's debt?
>
> 18866 say they are bound by UK law but how do you serve a small
> claim's court notice on them if they are in Switzerland. I don't
> know 18866's snail mail address (does anyone have it?) but 1899 say
> they are at:
> 1899/Finarea SA, PO Box 45574, London, NW1 3YL
> but the last time I looked up that post code at the Royal Mail
> website they said it does not exist.

Great idea, sue them. I guess it's only a matter of time before some idiot
decides to do it and puts an end to all this zero-overhead, overly cheap
phone calls madness.

On 15 May 2006, C. Señor<[email protected]> wrote:

> Lem <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I suspect that 18866 are allowed to suspend service for who they
>> want to. But will 18866 they also put a black mark on my credit
>> record?
>
> No.
>
>> Is there any law or regulation which prevents someone taking out a
>> penalty on me on account of someone else's debt?
>>
>> 18866 say they are bound by UK law but how do you serve a small
>> claim's court notice on them if they are in Switzerland. I don't
>> know 18866's snail mail address (does anyone have it?) but 1899
>> say they are at:
>> 1899/Finarea SA, PO Box 45574, London, NW1 3YL
>> but the last time I looked up that post code at the Royal Mail
>> website they said it does not exist.
>
> Great idea, sue them. I guess it's only a matter of time before
> some idiot decides to do it and puts an end to all this
> zero-overhead, overly cheap phone calls madness.


Well, 18866 is now up to 5p to connect. That's not so amazingly
cheap considering how many calls don't reach their intended recipient
and will only last 30 seconds.

But if dirt cheap calls come at the lack of sufficient customer
service not to hassle third parties over another party's debt then it
isn't worth having.

Anyway ,,, http://www.niftylist.co.uk/calls/to/uk/landline/ shows
plenty of decent alternatives

Lem <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 15 May 2006, C. Señor<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Lem <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I suspect that 18866 are allowed to suspend service for who they
>>> want to. But will 18866 they also put a black mark on my credit
>>> record?
>>
>> No.
>>
>>> Is there any law or regulation which prevents someone taking out a
>>> penalty on me on account of someone else's debt?
>>>
>>> 18866 say they are bound by UK law but how do you serve a small
>>> claim's court notice on them if they are in Switzerland. I don't
>>> know 18866's snail mail address (does anyone have it?) but 1899
>>> say they are at:
>>> 1899/Finarea SA, PO Box 45574, London, NW1 3YL
>>> but the last time I looked up that post code at the Royal Mail
>>> website they said it does not exist.
>>
>> Great idea, sue them. I guess it's only a matter of time before
>> some idiot decides to do it and puts an end to all this
>> zero-overhead, overly cheap phone calls madness.
>
>
> Well, 18866 is now up to 5p to connect. That's not so amazingly
> cheap considering how many calls don't reach their intended recipient
> and will only last 30 seconds.

1899 is still 3p.

> But if dirt cheap calls come at the lack of sufficient customer
> service not to hassle third parties over another party's debt then it
> isn't worth having.
>
> Anyway ,,, http://www.niftylist.co.uk/calls/to/uk/landline/ shows
> plenty of decent alternatives

So go there and leave 18866 alone.

On 16 May 2006, C. Señor<[email protected]> wrote:

>>>> Is there any law or regulation which prevents someone taking out
>>>> a penalty on me on account of someone else's debt?
>>>>
>>>> 18866 say they are bound by UK law but how do you serve a small
>>>> claim's court notice on them if they are in Switzerland. I
>>>> don't know 18866's snail mail address (does anyone have it?) but
>>>> 1899 say they are at:
>>>> 1899/Finarea SA, PO Box 45574, London, NW1 3YL
>>>> but the last time I looked up that post code at the Royal Mail
>>>> website they said it does not exist.
>>>
>>> Great idea, sue them. I guess it's only a matter of time before
>>> some idiot decides to do it and puts an end to all this
>>> zero-overhead, overly cheap phone calls madness.
>>
>>
>> Well, 18866 is now up to 5p to connect. That's not so amazingly
>> cheap considering how many calls don't reach their intended
>> recipient and will only last 30 seconds.
>
> 1899 is still 3p.
>
>> But if dirt cheap calls come at the lack of sufficient customer
>> service not to hassle third parties over another party's debt then
>> it isn't worth having.
>>
>> Anyway ,,, http://www.niftylist.co.uk/calls/to/uk/landline/ shows
>> plenty of decent alternatives
>
> So go there and leave 18866 alone.

That's a good idea. First let me make sure that trading standards
will take it up and get some sense into 18866/1899/18185. I'll ring
them up and get back to you.

Then I'm off to niftylist.

On Mon, 15 May 2006 22:26:18 +0100, Lem <[email protected]> wrote:

>I see that the government's Distance Selling Regs says in the E-commerce
>checklist:
>
> You must give your customers the following information:

Two points:

1. Which government? What has UK law got to do with a foreign company?

2. The DSR primarily refers to selling goods, not services. If you
don't like the service 1866 sells you, how would you send it back in a
saleable, unmarked condition so they could sell it to someone else?

--

Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!

On Thu, 18 May 2006 17:07:41 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

>On Mon, 15 May 2006 22:26:18 +0100, Lem <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I see that the government's Distance Selling Regs says in the E-commerce
>>checklist:
>>
>> You must give your customers the following information:
>
>Two points:
>
>1. Which government? What has UK law got to do with a foreign company?
>

If the sale is taking place in this country, then UK law applies.

>2. The DSR primarily refers to selling goods, not services.

It applies equally to both.

However, there are exceptions for the right to cancel where the
service has actually started being provided, with the customer's
agreement.

> If you
>don't like the service 1866 sells you, how would you send it back in a
>saleable, unmarked condition so they could sell it to someone else?

You just cancel and don't use it.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
If only women came with pulldown menus and online help.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

> On Mon, 15 May 2006 22:26:18 +0100, Lem <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I see that the government's Distance Selling Regs says in the
>>E-commerce checklist:
>>You must give your customers the following information:


On 18 May 2006, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Two points:
>
> 1. Which government? What has UK law got to do with a foreign
> company?

You're not doing your homework are you?

Maybe look at the T&Cs for 18866 and 1899.
http://www.call18866.co.uk/termsconditions.php
http://www.1899.com/termsconditions.php


>
> 2. The DSR primarily refers to selling goods, not services.

You're definitely not doing your homework are you? Naughty boy.

"Home Shopping: Distance Selling Regulations"
http://tinyurl.com/zw5ra page 2 says

"The DSRs do apply to your business if you sell
goods or services without face to face contact
using an organised scheme"

> If you don't like the service 1866 sells you, how would you
> send it back in a saleable, unmarked condition so they could
> sell it to someone else?

You have got obsessed by a single provision of the regs and are applying
to everything including services.

It's regs with an "s" and they are not all about returns (page 5 above).

For info the UK Govt links the provisions of the DSR with the ECommR.

No exception for Finarea's business (p15 - also p3)
Accessibility of provider is required (1st point p16)
Enforcement is undertaken by the state (p19)

On Thu, 18 May 2006 17:40:16 +0100, Alex Heney <[email protected]>
wrote:

>>1. Which government? What has UK law got to do with a foreign company?
>>
>
>If the sale is taking place in this country, then UK law applies.

18866 are not in the UK, and the sales is not in the UK.

>>2. The DSR primarily refers to selling goods, not services.
>
>It applies equally to both.

No. It applies to both, but not equally.
>
>However, there are exceptions for the right to cancel where the
>service has actually started being provided, with the customer's
>agreement.

Indeed, but that's not relevant here, because there is no "line
rental" to worry about. A customer can cancel at any time by simply
ceasing to use the service.

>> If you
>>don't like the service 1866 sells you, how would you send it back in a
>>saleable, unmarked condition so they could sell it to someone else?
>
>You just cancel and don't use it.

That does not get your money back.

--

Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!

On Thu, 18 May 2006 22:25:32 +0100, Lem <[email protected]> wrote:

>You're not doing your homework are you?

Yes, but the difference between you and I is that I understand what
the things mean, and you don't seem to.

--

Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!

On Thu, 18 May 2006 23:07:20 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

>On Thu, 18 May 2006 17:40:16 +0100, Alex Heney <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>>1. Which government? What has UK law got to do with a foreign company?
>>>
>>
>>If the sale is taking place in this country, then UK law applies.
>
>18866 are not in the UK, and the sales is not in the UK.

From the last line of their T&C
-------------------------------------------------------
Law
The laws of England and Wales apply to this Contract, unless you live
in Scotland in which case the laws of Scotland apply.
---------------------------------------------------------

And I believe that the UK courts work on the basis that where a
transaction takes place remotely across national boundaries, it is the
jurisdiction of the consumer that counts for where it took place.


--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Oh sure! But what's the speed of dark?!
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

On Thu, 18 May 2006 23:12:22 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

>On Thu, 18 May 2006 22:25:32 +0100, Lem <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>You're not doing your homework are you?
>
>Yes, but the difference between you and I is that I understand what
>the things mean, and you don't seem to.

You got that the wrong way round.

There is absolutely no doubt at all, based on what has been posted,
that he understands them better than you.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Oh sure! But what's the speed of dark?!
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom