Junk texts from Orange shops

We've just received the following on a couple of (non business) Orange
phones:

"Hounslow Orange Shop. 800 XNET Mins + 1000 Txts + Magic No. + Free
broadband. £45 a mth. Interested? text YES for Callback." From:
+447973331839

.... This looks like it's actually coming from our local Orange
(branded) shop who we upgraded phones with a year ago - which raises
the following:

1. People might wish to avoid any "Orange" branded shops
(especially Hounslow) if it means their going to get spammed.

2. I believe this message to be illegal, given we've not knowingly
consented to being sent spam. Both phones are also TPS registered, but
since junk SMS is illegal anyway, it's outside the TPS remit.

3. Given the above, how on earth do we get these tossers properly
dealt with? Preferably a bit more than a slap on the wrist.

Rgds
Jonathan

---

› See More: Junk texts from Orange shops

JC wrote:

> We've just received the following on a couple of (non business) Orange
> phones:
....
> 3. Given the above, how on earth do we get these tossers properly
> dealt with? Preferably a bit more than a slap on the wrist.

Couple of hundred quid to your local meat-heads to get the shop torched?

What on earth are you expecting - "more than a slap on the wrist"? They
sent you (an existing customer) a single text to each phone they sold
you. Delete the text, get on with your life.

Geoff

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 18:05:12 +0100, Geoff Winkless
<usenet-at-geoff-dot-dj@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

>What on earth are you expecting - "more than a slap on the wrist"? They
>sent you (an existing customer) a single text to each phone they sold
>you. Delete the text, get on with your life.

If every company I ever did business with sent me just one text
message a year, that's still many, many messages per day and would
make SMS unusable as far as I'm concerned. I guess that attitude is
the reason we all the premium rate SMS scams.

Sending unsolicited junk texts is illegal and (IMHO more importantly)
unethical. If I rang your door bell and handed you an advertising
flyer several times a day, you'd probably get fed up after a while.

As for what action, well I'd like to see someone prosecuted for junk
texts, as this law appears to be worthless if not upheld. I'd like to
know if Orange condone the actions their shops take and if they were
aware of this. If there's rotten apple on the tree is it just one, or
has it spread to the trunk... etc etc..

Rgds
Jonathan

"Geoff Winkless" <usenet-at-geoff-dot-dj@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> JC wrote:
>
>> We've just received the following on a couple of (non business) Orange
>> phones:
> ...
>> 3. Given the above, how on earth do we get these tossers properly
>> dealt with? Preferably a bit more than a slap on the wrist.
>
> Couple of hundred quid to your local meat-heads to get the shop torched?
>
> What on earth are you expecting - "more than a slap on the wrist"? They
> sent you (an existing customer) a single text to each phone they sold you.
> Delete the text, get on with your life.
>

It's an unsolicited text message. What gives them the right to spam that to
you? I'm sure you'd love it if everybody you've done business with spammed
you text messages.

[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> 1. People might wish to avoid any "Orange" branded shops
> (especially Hounslow) if it means their going to get spammed.
>
> 2. I believe this message to be illegal, given we've not knowingly
> consented to being sent spam. Both phones are also TPS registered, but
> since junk SMS is illegal anyway, it's outside the TPS remit.
>
> 3. Given the above, how on earth do we get these tossers properly
> dealt with? Preferably a bit more than a slap on the wrist.

If you bought a phone from them last year they're just going through
last years contracts. You'll only get the message once. It's not a
reverse charge message, it will have been sent from a normal phone.

Most mobile shops do this I think you will find.
--
Regards
Jon

[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> >What on earth are you expecting - "more than a slap on the wrist"? They
> >sent you (an existing customer) a single text to each phone they sold
> >you. Delete the text, get on with your life.

> If every company I ever did business with sent me just one text
> message a year, that's still many, many messages per day and would
> make SMS unusable as far as I'm concerned.

Indeed, but in this case the OP is getting the message because he bought
a mobile phone from that store, which has recently become eligible for
an upgrade.

If every company I dealt with sent me random messages it would get
annoying, but to receive one message once and once only would not cause
me too much concern.

> I guess that attitude is
> the reason we all the premium rate SMS scams.

Premium rate reverse billed SMS scammers are thieving scum. It's not
even in the same league IMHO.
--
Regards
Jon

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 20:33:04 +0100, Jon <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Indeed, but in this case the OP is getting the message because he bought
>a mobile phone from that store, which has recently become eligible for
>an upgrade.

Actually, I've already upgraded. I never gave any consent for them to
send me any marketing material, by post, SMS or any other method. The
law explicitly bans unsolicited SMS messages which is actually
stricter than regular phone calls which you have to opt out of using
the TPS.

>If every company I dealt with sent me random messages it would get
>annoying, but to receive one message once and once only would not cause
>me too much concern.

I must receive at least 1 of these a week from various (usually fly by
night) companies and they're getting more frequent. All phones are TPS
registered and I always explicitly opt out of marketing. I'm starting
to get very annoyed. SMS will soon be as unusable as unfiltered email
at this rate.

>> I guess that attitude is
>> the reason we all the premium rate SMS scams.
>
>Premium rate reverse billed SMS scammers are thieving scum. It's not
>even in the same league IMHO.

Maybe, but it's a slippery slope - they still appear to be breaking
the law and causing annoyance.

Rgds
Jonathan

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 20:30:34 +0100, Jon <[email protected]>
wrote:

>If you bought a phone from them last year they're just going through
>last years contracts. You'll only get the message once. It's not a
>reverse charge message, it will have been sent from a normal phone.
>
>Most mobile shops do this I think you will find.

Then they're breaking the law and should be prosecuted.

Quote from the TPS site:

"... This is because under the Privacy and Electronic Communications
(EC Directive) Regulations 2004 it is unlawful to send an unsolicited
sales and marketing text message. Telemarketing companies who send SMS
messages need your prior permission. ...."

Rgds
Jonathan

Take them to court and sue them.

However, to do this, you to give them a warning. If they still continue than you can sue them for lots of money.

It's best if they do this at least 3 times so you will have a better case.

JC wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 20:30:34 +0100, Jon <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> If you bought a phone from them last year they're just going through
>> last years contracts. You'll only get the message once. It's not a
>> reverse charge message, it will have been sent from a normal phone.
>>
>> Most mobile shops do this I think you will find.
>
> Then they're breaking the law and should be prosecuted.
>
> Quote from the TPS site:
>
> "... This is because under the Privacy and Electronic Communications
> (EC Directive) Regulations 2004 it is unlawful to send an unsolicited
> sales and marketing text message. Telemarketing companies who send SMS
> messages need your prior permission. ...."

I'm pretty sure that if the sender has "an existing customer
relationship" with the recipient, then this is an exemption and they are
doing nothing wrong legally.

Text them back the word STOP
Easy done

Pete


"Dave Newt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> JC wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 20:30:34 +0100, Jon <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If you bought a phone from them last year they're just going through
>>> last years contracts. You'll only get the message once. It's not a
>>> reverse charge message, it will have been sent from a normal phone.
>>>
>>> Most mobile shops do this I think you will find.
>>
>> Then they're breaking the law and should be prosecuted.
>>
>> Quote from the TPS site:
>>
>> "... This is because under the Privacy and Electronic Communications
>> (EC Directive) Regulations 2004 it is unlawful to send an unsolicited
>> sales and marketing text message. Telemarketing companies who send SMS
>> messages need your prior permission. ...."
>
> I'm pretty sure that if the sender has "an existing customer relationship"
> with the recipient, then this is an exemption and they are doing nothing
> wrong legally.

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 17:06:27 -0500, secrecyguy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Take them to court and sue them.

Umm, as I understand it the action has to be taken by the "Office of
the Information Commissioner". Suing implys recovering damages. It's
the criminal offence of sending of the messages that I'd like to see
enforced.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3120628.stm

>However, to do this, you to give them a warning. If they still continue
>than you can sue them for lots of money.

No, they've broken the law. Like a lot of offences they may, if
they're lucky, be given a warning or a slapped wrist first time.
However as I understand things, there's no obligation to do this.

>It's best if they do this at least 3 times so you will have a better
>case.

Seems pretty conclusive evidence to me, unless it was a faked sender
number. I can't see why they'd need three offences to be committed
before prosecuting.

Rgds
Jonathan

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 23:16:25 +0100, Dave Newt
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I'm pretty sure that if the sender has "an existing customer
>relationship" with the recipient, then this is an exemption and they are
> doing nothing wrong legally.

Yes, that's one of "get out of jail free" clauses! ;-) However I only
upgraded phones with this shop and have no other contractual
arrangements with them. I also always explicitly state that I don't
wish to receive any marketing material, calls or messages and tick any
appropriate box. If anything, their contravening of my explicit
request might be another data protection offence?

FWIW this shop (Hounslow Orange) was particularly useless. They put
unwanted and unrequested trial products on our accounts after I'd
explicitly asked them not to, resulting in overcharging once the trial
period ended. One of the phones was faulty resulting in three return
visits when a promised replacement phone was claimed not to be in
stock and reported later by another member of staff to have been in
the storeroom the whole time... and the whole experience exasperating!

Never again... ;-)

Rgds
Jonathan

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:51:34 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Text them back the word STOP
>Easy done

Why? If someone breaks into your car do you ask them politely not to
do it again and tip them a few pence? ;-) Anyway, this appears to have
been sent from a genuine 07973 Orange number, not a short code.

Rgds
Jonathan

"JC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Yes, that's one of "get out of jail free" clauses! ;-) However I only
> upgraded phones with this shop and have no other contractual
> arrangements with them. I also always explicitly state that I don't
> wish to receive any marketing material, calls or messages and tick any
> appropriate box. If anything, their contravening of my explicit
> request might be another data protection offence?
>

As an existing Orange customer, then can phone you and make an offer on your
contract without breaking TPS rules as you already have an existing
relationship with them. There is nothing to stop ANY company you deal with
doing the same. It's a fact of life - deal with it. If you don't like it,
ditch your phone in the bin and do without.

>
> Never again... ;-)

Your choice, Goodbye.