BT disconnection. Do I have grounds for complaint??

nigel nailhead wrote:
> "Paul Cupis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> nigel nailhead wrote:
>>> "Paul Cupis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> nigel nailhead wrote:

>>> It they wanted to punish me then fine thats what they did,
>>
>> They wanted to adhere to the contract between you and them, and they
>> wanted you to adhere to it as well.
>
> I've adhered to the spirit of it for many years. I don't think being a few
> days late with a monthly payment goes against the spirit of it, do you??

It goes against the letter of it. They did not know you were "only a few
days late" as they had sent you a a reminder and you ignored it.

>>> Do you think the average customer even reads the contract?
>>
>> You agreed to a contract without first reading it? Then you have no-one
>> to blame but yourself if you did not understand what the terms of the
>> services are.
>
> Please answer the question.

The question is irrelevant. You are upset because you didn't read the
contract? That does not negate the contract. If you agree to something
without reading it then you have only yourself to blame.

> My point anyway was that if a customer has no choice then they are forced to
> accept the terms of the contract - fair or not.

Of course you have a choice. Or are you saying that your contract with
BT was made under duress?

>>> Were they consulted when it was drawn up?
>>
>> Why in the world would a company consult random customers before
>> creating their T&Cs?
>
> Perhaps because they would like to keep their customers??

Does your employer consult its customers or the general public when it
creates/revises/reviews it's contract terms? If you had your own
company, would you?

>>> I don't think so, therefore it is reasonable for the customer to assume
>>> the contract will be fair and reasonable. This cutting off policy is not.
>>
>> It is fair and reasonable. If you ignore invoices and ignore reminders
>> and breach the contract, they will take action to prevent further
>> exposure.
>
> No its not. It was plain stupid and unnecessary. They've had thousands off
> me over couple of decades and my credit rating is flawless so there was no
> "exposure" at all.

And yet you didn't pay a bill and breached the terms of your contract.
You ignored the invoice and ignored the reminder. You'd think after
being with a company for a "couple of decades" that you would know that
you actually have to pay for the services you've used.

> I was on three month billing and asked to be transferred
> a few years ago. Obvioulsy their "exposure" as you so dramatically put it,
> was much greater then.

My use of the word "exposure" is not intended to be dramatic, it is the
correct word to use.

>>> Why can't they give a simple phone call or email first??
>>
>> Why should they?
>
> Do I really need to ***** it out?? To minimise expense, inconvenience, to
> keep the customer happy.

Okay, I see what you are saying. It would be nice if they would at least
go to the trouble of sending a reminder out by post in case I'd just
forgotten to pay... oh, wait a minute.

>> Perhaps you would respond to a phone call where you
>> ignored their invoice/reminder? You want them to through more money
>> after bad?
>
> after bad???

Yes. It has already cost them to send the reminder to you, an action
which should not be necessary, now you want them to chase you by
telephone as well, asking you nicely if you would mind not ignoring your
bill? Guess what, that costs more money.

> What would an automated email or phone call cost compared with losing
> customers and goodwill??

Less than a letter by post reminding you of your debt, and they've
already spent that on you...

---

› See More: BT disconnection. Do I have grounds for complaint??

nigel nailhead wrote:
> "Swampy Bogtrotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

>> It works in the same way as a pay-as-you-talk mobile phone.....You put
>> credit on it each month, of which £17 goes to pay the line rental, and the
>> rest is calling credit.....You get free evening and weekend calls.....
>
> There's nowt wrong with my credit rating or ability to pay - just that I'm
> sometimes a few days late with payment. I did try to set up a DD online but
> there was some typical BT glitch which made me give up.

Did you report this to them, or otherwise telephone them to setup the DD?

Pier Danone wrote:
> "Swampy Bogtrotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
>> Jim wrote:
>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:12:50 GMT, "Swampy Bogtrotter"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Well, we moved into a house where the previous occupants had left
>> unpaid bills.....Nothing to do with us.....This was the only payment
>> plan that BT would allow us to use, despite the fact that the debts
>> belonged to someone else.....
>
> Please don't take this the wrong way, but your credit reference would
> have been based on your previous address and it may well have been
> you that was the
> issue - unless there was no data on you in the places BT looks. It's
> just the way credit checking works. The exception to this is if the
> line has been reconnected at that premesis multiple times, in
> different names and all of the accounts had been ceased for non
> payment. They may assume identitify theft and force yu to this scheme
> just in case. So even if your previous address checked out as good
> for credit with your name - it may not have really been you asking
> for service. If you were a BT customer there and you were moving, it
> should not have been an issue, but you may have been a cable customer
> or the son/daughter/lodger not holding a BT account.
>
> BT's penny pinching used to mean that there credit check was internal
> looking at their own records for addresses. In the last year they
> have swithced to occasional use of a second rate credit reference
> agency, the name currently escapes me. It's not Experian (formally
> CCN Systems) as far as I am aware.

They didn't take enough info for a credit check.....
No previous addresses, or anything like that.....Their decision was just
based on the outstanding debt owed from the previous residents.....They
actually told us that.....

> There are some down sides to this type of account. There is normally
> a minimum weekly or monthly top up amount that must be applied (and
> it's not low!) and you cannot have broadband with it. I am unsure if
> you can sign up for a OLO on it and have it unbundled. You tend to
> find a PAYG mobile is a more attractive option once you realise that
> broadband is no go on it. Unless that has changed. They did activate
> a few without realising, I heard.

Thats all academic anyway, as BB isn't available here.....
The minimum topup you can do is £5, so not an outrageous amount.....I
certainly wouldn't want to be putting anything less on it......

"Matzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Okay, brain now caught up...why is this on an equestrian thread?


Sory if its a bit OT, but its just me feeling angry with BT and realising
that if I post the below to a UK newsgroup which is likely to be read by
landowners, it is likely to lead to BT no longer being able to avoid their
responsibilities in a few more cases - ie substantial transfers from BT to
those with BT poles on their land and no wayleave agreement - could be good
news for a few riding schools, garden centres, smallholders, farmers, etc.

.. . .
If you have telephone cables on your land, you could be eligible for B.T.
wayleave payments. B.T. now accept that wayleave payments are due to
landowners who have cables on their ground servicing third parties. The most
usual case is where a cottage or farmhouse has been sold off but the cable
serving the property is still on your land, or the poles may simply run over
your land - and not on the verge.

If the cable runs along the verge of a public road or serves you, then no
payment is due - but otherwise payments can be more than you'd think.

BT Wayleaves Scanning Office
Communications House
Harlescott Lane
Shrewsbury
SY1 3AQ
phone telephone: 0800 581525
Fax: 01743 274273


-- repeatedly until they get a reply - asking if there is a wayleave
agreement in existence and demanding payment if not. There are a lot of
landowners with BT poles and no wayleave agreement. These people are
entitled to a payout from BT - but BT won't pay out unless they are
cornered.

A google for bt wayleave will show at least one firm offering help with
claiming wayleave if help is required.

To anyone with poles - just keep writing or faxing. They will probably
ignore the first few as they try to wriggle out of paying.

BT wayleave payments British Telecom telephone poles on your my land farm
farmers landowners agreement payout cheque money additional income

>>> With that attitude I'd assume you work for BT or a company with similar
>>> attitudes - who feel their customers are indebted to them and can be
>>> treated
>>> as they want. I suppose this attitude comes from BTs monopolistic past
>>> and
>>> was fine 50 years ago but most succesful companies now realise the
>>> importance of treating customers with respect and not needlessly
>>> humiliating
>>> or insulting them. To answer your question regarding my "new company";

Typical of BT. I once made a mistake of going to one of their university
graduates recruitment things... at the end 'tes and biscuits' were
announced... it did actually turn out to be exactly that... every other
company offered wine and more interesting nourishment... even during the
actual presentation.

And for years they would not allow people to bye their own 'phones...
they must hate Skype.

Axel

| nigel nailhead wrote:

| > What would an automated email or phone call cost compared with losing
| > customers and goodwill??
|
Who cares if they loose a non paying customer? I am happy to lose them!

What goodwill do you refer to? Prompt bill payment?

It cost money to pursue people for money and telephone bills are small amounts
to chase. The best way to get people to pay on time is to cut people off when
they don't. It works very well. If you don't like it, go elsewhere (I guess you
cant as you probably owe everyone money). I hope they ask you for a £500 deposit
to reconnect you too!!!

God, BT give you a reminder. Not many people do that.

Definately has learning difficulties this one, don't be fooled by his fluent
nature. Why not pop down the CAB and cry on their shoulders.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:46:59 GMT, "Swampy Bogtrotter"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Jim wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:12:50 GMT, "Swampy Bogtrotter"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>
>>> It may be of interest to the OP and anybody else who's in the same
>>> situation that BT have a pricing plan available that they don't
>>> publicise very much, aimed directly at people who have displayed a
>>> previous poor credit history with them.....
>>>
>>> I think it's called "BT Pay and talk" or something similar.....
>>>
>>> It works in the same way as a pay-as-you-talk mobile phone.....You
>>> put credit on it each month, of which £17 goes to pay the line
>>> rental, and the rest is calling credit.....You get free evening and
>>> weekend calls.....
>>>
>>> It's impossible to run up a huge phone bill, as you can only use it
>>> while there's credit on the account.....If you run out of calling
>>> credit, the line automatically drops to incoming-only.....If you
>>> don't have enough credit to cover the £17 line rental, the line is
>>> disabled altogether until such times as you do pay the £17....
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> It's called Pay & Talk. As the 'platform' it is run from has limited
>> capacity it used to only be available to customers they identify as
>> having bill payment problems.
>>
>> Not sure if it's avauilable to all & sundry now ?
>
>Well, we moved into a house where the previous occupants had left unpaid
>bills.....Nothing to do with us.....This was the only payment plan that BT
>would allow us to use, despite the fact that the debts belonged to someone
>else.....
>
>Having said that, we actually prefer this system, as we can't get broadband
>here, and we use the internet a lot.....It gives us a bit of peace of mind,
>as we now know that if one of those premium rate dialers should get through
>our defences, the most it's going to cost us is £20 or £30, compared to the
>several hundred quid that some folks have been stung for....
>
BT do a rogue dialler app. You can set it to only allow certain
numbers to be dialled from your PC. Free to BT customers. I'm not one
yet. Used to let anyone download it but that has been stopped.

Just had NTL bump our costs up so we are paying £30 a month for line
and dial up internet. Calls extra. Told them to walk. Getting
disconnected next month so will have to see about a BT line.

AlanG wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:46:59 GMT, "Swampy Bogtrotter"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Jim wrote:
>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:12:50 GMT, "Swampy Bogtrotter"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It may be of interest to the OP and anybody else who's in the same
>>>> situation that BT have a pricing plan available that they don't
>>>> publicise very much, aimed directly at people who have displayed a
>>>> previous poor credit history with them.....
>>>>
>>>> I think it's called "BT Pay and talk" or something similar.....
>>>>
>>>> It works in the same way as a pay-as-you-talk mobile phone.....You
>>>> put credit on it each month, of which £17 goes to pay the line
>>>> rental, and the rest is calling credit.....You get free evening and
>>>> weekend calls.....
>>>>
>>>> It's impossible to run up a huge phone bill, as you can only use it
>>>> while there's credit on the account.....If you run out of calling
>>>> credit, the line automatically drops to incoming-only.....If you
>>>> don't have enough credit to cover the £17 line rental, the line is
>>>> disabled altogether until such times as you do pay the £17....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's called Pay & Talk. As the 'platform' it is run from has
>>> limited capacity it used to only be available to customers they
>>> identify as having bill payment problems.
>>>
>>> Not sure if it's avauilable to all & sundry now ?
>>
>> Well, we moved into a house where the previous occupants had left
>> unpaid bills.....Nothing to do with us.....This was the only payment
>> plan that BT would allow us to use, despite the fact that the debts
>> belonged to someone else.....
>>
>> Having said that, we actually prefer this system, as we can't get
>> broadband here, and we use the internet a lot.....It gives us a bit
>> of peace of mind, as we now know that if one of those premium rate
>> dialers should get through our defences, the most it's going to cost
>> us is £20 or £30, compared to the several hundred quid that some
>> folks have been stung for....
>>
> BT do a rogue dialler app. You can set it to only allow certain
> numbers to be dialled from your PC. Free to BT customers.

As is usually the way with these things, some spotty teenager who hasn't sen
daylight since his seventh birthday will eventually come up with something
to circiument that....I always feel a lot happier with a hardware solution
than a software solution....

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:9I8wg.7077$5K2.63@fed1read03...
>
>>>> With that attitude I'd assume you work for BT or a company with similar
>>>> attitudes - who feel their customers are indebted to them and can be
>>>> treated
>>>> as they want. I suppose this attitude comes from BTs monopolistic past
>>>> and
>>>> was fine 50 years ago but most succesful companies now realise the
>>>> importance of treating customers with respect and not needlessly
>>>> humiliating
>>>> or insulting them. To answer your question regarding my "new company";
>
> Typical of BT. I once made a mistake of going to one of their university
> graduates recruitment things... at the end 'tes and biscuits' were
> announced... it did actually turn out to be exactly that... every other
> company offered wine and more interesting nourishment... even during the
> actual presentation.
>
> And for years they would not allow people to bye their own 'phones...
> they must hate Skype.


Yes that reminds me of having one of those BT compulsory phones (great
ring!) - and moving house. BT wouldn't terminate my contract or something
like that until I'd actually taken the phone 45 miles to the stipulated drop
off point! When I eventually got it there they refused to take it, as for
some reason
(forgotten now) it didn't have a plug. I had to go to a shop, buy a plug,
jam it in the car door to fit it and then they took it. Is Dickensian the
word I'm looking for??

There is a guy on here who talks like he is chairman of BT (and also one who
sounds like their illegal immigrant janitor) - asking if I complained when I
couldn't set up a DD online at their website. Being with BTi for dialup was
one of my most frustrating experiences. There were many problems and the
standard response from BT was an infuriatingly innappropriate auto response.
Usually that was all. And their newsgroups missed an enormous percentage of
posts. I've also emailed them and had a silly answer regarding problems with
their pathetic online directory enquiries which to this day asks for the
post code or town - and then throws up people 60 miles away!! So in answer
to Mr BT, I've given up trying to communicate with you a long time ago.

"Pier Danone" <Pier [email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


> My apologies!!! I missed that. Corking!

Anyone fed up with BT charges could look into VOIP. Thanks to you and your
friends Pier, I've just been looking into it and am likely to go over to it.

Which of these do you get free with BT:
1st line?? 2nd line?? 3rd line??
Voicemail
Call Waiting
3-Way Calling
Caller ID

Seems to me that BT want to charge extra for every little thing but these
are all free with VOIP as far as I can see.
Use a headset with a software phone (free), or a VOIP USB phone plugged into
the computer, or a normal phone plugged into an ATA unit which seems to
connect to a broadband router by ethernet cable. Sounds good.
Look at how many times the word free is used on the following sites offering
VOIP:

www.freespeech.co.uk
www.voip.co.uk
www.voipfone.co.uk
www.sipgate.co.uk/
www.voipstunt.com
www.gossipTel.com

Can anyone add to this list??

And any suggestions about what I do for line rental when I ditch BT? I
<think> I can go with Toucan, but not sure. NTL don't cover here. Are there
any other choices?? I
don't want 2 phone lines for calls now - don't need any as I will use VOIP,
so I only need one for broadband.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:40:10 GMT, "Swampy Bogtrotter"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>AlanG wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:46:59 GMT, "Swampy Bogtrotter"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>


>>>
>> BT do a rogue dialler app. You can set it to only allow certain
>> numbers to be dialled from your PC. Free to BT customers.
>
>As is usually the way with these things, some spotty teenager who hasn't sen
>daylight since his seventh birthday will eventually come up with something
>to circiument that....I always feel a lot happier with a hardware solution
>than a software solution....
>
I have one of those. The off button on the external modem.

nigel nailhead wrote:
> "Pier Danone" <Pier [email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>> My apologies!!! I missed that. Corking!
>
> Anyone fed up with BT charges could look into VOIP. Thanks to you
> and
> your friends Pier, I've just been looking into it and am likely to
> go
> over to it.

But what are you going to have your broadband pipe on?

Alan wrote:

> oh just pay the money you owe and shut the **** up stop trying to be
> clever

The self righteous fool never shuts up, they only fade away as more &
more people ignore them..

"Paul Cupis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> nigel nailhead wrote:
>> "Paul Cupis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> nigel nailhead wrote:
>>>> "Paul Cupis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> nigel nailhead wrote:
>
>>>> It they wanted to punish me then fine thats what they did,
>>>
>>> They wanted to adhere to the contract between you and them, and they
>>> wanted you to adhere to it as well.
>>
>> I've adhered to the spirit of it for many years. I don't think being a
>> few
>> days late with a monthly payment goes against the spirit of it, do you??
>
> It goes against the letter of it. They did not know you were "only a few
> days late" as they had sent you a a reminder and you ignored it.
>
>>>> Do you think the average customer even reads the contract?
>>>
>>> You agreed to a contract without first reading it? Then you have no-one
>>> to blame but yourself if you did not understand what the terms of the
>>> services are.
>>
>> Please answer the question.
>
> The question is irrelevant. You are upset because you didn't read the
> contract? That does not negate the contract. If you agree to something
> without reading it then you have only yourself to blame.
>
>> My point anyway was that if a customer has no choice then they are forced
>> to
>> accept the terms of the contract - fair or not.
>
> Of course you have a choice. Or are you saying that your contract with
> BT was made under duress?
>
>>>> Were they consulted when it was drawn up?
>>>
>>> Why in the world would a company consult random customers before
>>> creating their T&Cs?
>>
>> Perhaps because they would like to keep their customers??
>
> Does your employer consult its customers or the general public when it
> creates/revises/reviews it's contract terms? If you had your own
> company, would you?
>
>>>> I don't think so, therefore it is reasonable for the customer to assume
>>>> the contract will be fair and reasonable. This cutting off policy is
>>>> not.
>>>
>>> It is fair and reasonable. If you ignore invoices and ignore reminders
>>> and breach the contract, they will take action to prevent further
>>> exposure.
>>
>> No its not. It was plain stupid and unnecessary. They've had thousands
>> off
>> me over couple of decades and my credit rating is flawless so there was
>> no
>> "exposure" at all.
>
> And yet you didn't pay a bill and breached the terms of your contract.
> You ignored the invoice and ignored the reminder. You'd think after
> being with a company for a "couple of decades" that you would know that
> you actually have to pay for the services you've used.
>
>> I was on three month billing and asked to be transferred
>> a few years ago. Obvioulsy their "exposure" as you so dramatically put
>> it,
>> was much greater then.
>
> My use of the word "exposure" is not intended to be dramatic, it is the
> correct word to use.
>
>>>> Why can't they give a simple phone call or email first??
>>>
>>> Why should they?
>>
>> Do I really need to ***** it out?? To minimise expense, inconvenience, to
>> keep the customer happy.
>
> Okay, I see what you are saying. It would be nice if they would at least
> go to the trouble of sending a reminder out by post in case I'd just
> forgotten to pay... oh, wait a minute.
>
>>> Perhaps you would respond to a phone call where you
>>> ignored their invoice/reminder? You want them to through more money
>>> after bad?
>>
>> after bad???
>
> Yes. It has already cost them to send the reminder to you, an action
> which should not be necessary, now you want them to chase you by
> telephone as well, asking you nicely if you would mind not ignoring your
> bill? Guess what, that costs more money.
>
>> What would an automated email or phone call cost compared with losing
>> customers and goodwill??
>
> Less than a letter by post reminding you of your debt, and they've
> already spent that on you...


oh just pay the money you owe and shut the **** up stop trying to be clever

AlanG wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:40:10 GMT, "Swampy Bogtrotter"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> AlanG wrote:
>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:46:59 GMT, "Swampy Bogtrotter"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>
>
>>>>
>>> BT do a rogue dialler app. You can set it to only allow certain
>>> numbers to be dialled from your PC. Free to BT customers.
>>
>> As is usually the way with these things, some spotty teenager who
>> hasn't sen daylight since his seventh birthday will eventually come
>> up with something to circiument that....I always feel a lot happier
>> with a hardware solution than a software solution....
>>
> I have one of those. The off button on the external modem.

LOL, That'll do it....