Mobile phones allowed on Ryanair

GSM to work on Mickey's planes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5298332.stm

Looking at the FAQ
http://www.onair.aero/en/faq/faq_mobile_industry.pdf
it looks like I could set my mobile to not roam and get back on my own
network rather than helping Ryanair's profits.

What do you folks think?

Is there a signal at 36,000 feet?

Geoff

---

› See More: Mobile phones allowed on Ryanair

"Geoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> GSM to work on Mickey's planes.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5298332.stm
>
> Looking at the FAQ
> http://www.onair.aero/en/faq/faq_mobile_industry.pdf
> it looks like I could set my mobile to not roam and get back on my own
> network rather than helping Ryanair's profits.
>
> What do you folks think?
>
> Is there a signal at 36,000 feet?

Firstly, I think it's going to be bloody annoying. Secondly, I hear the
problem with mobile phone usage in aircraft is due to the very fast
hand-off's which the networks can't handle. Thirdly, please airlines, don't
allow it. It's not like I can easily move if sat next to someone
persistently using theirs. Air rage, here we come.

"Geoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> GSM to work on Mickey's planes.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5298332.stm
>
> Looking at the FAQ
> http://www.onair.aero/en/faq/faq_mobile_industry.pdf
> it looks like I could set my mobile to not roam and get back on my own
> network rather than helping Ryanair's profits.

Not at 36,000 feet though!

> What do you folks think?
>
> Is there a signal at 36,000 feet?

From the picocell - yes
From your operator - no chance!

"Geoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> GSM to work on Mickey's planes.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5298332.stm
>
> Looking at the FAQ
> http://www.onair.aero/en/faq/faq_mobile_industry.pdf
> it looks like I could set my mobile to not roam and get back on my own
> network rather than helping Ryanair's profits.

Well mobiles do work inside aircraft, although I have only done this while
the aircraft is on its stand (in flight in the UK is an offence), but
Ryanair are Irish.

>
> What do you folks think?
>
> Is there a signal at 36,000 feet?

Not a lot. O2 & Voda (in UK) should work better from 900MHz macrocells.
OTOH the longer waves will not get through the windows so well. You are
also likely to be between 5 and seven miles from the base station at best
and need to hand over every minute or so, so you are unlikely to get very
good or stable calls.

>
> Geoff
>
>

The key worry is the transmitter in the phone interfering with the avionics
on the plane. My mobile will make video screens jump about and the phone
buzz and I am only 250m clear line from a macro cell. So let's hope they
are right in their assessment below: -

Q20 Why have mobile phones been banned until now?

A20 Mobile phones are banned on aircraft because they can log on to, or
attempt to log on to, a terrestrial network during the flight, and by doing
so, start to radiate at their maximum power, exceeding levels acceptable in
the aeronautical environment. This can create harmful interference to the
avionics and therefore be hazardous to the safe operation of the aircraft.

The Mobile OnAir solution ensures that mobile phones on board will not
attempt to log on to terrestrial networks, and emulates a local GSM network
inside the aircraft, thus requiring much lower transmission power from the
mobile phones on board, staying within the power limits for safe operation
of the aircraft.

[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> GSM to work on Mickey's planes.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5298332.stm
>
> Looking at the FAQ
> http://www.onair.aero/en/faq/faq_mobile_industry.pdf
> it looks like I could set my mobile to not roam and get back on my own
> network rather than helping Ryanair's profits.
>
> What do you folks think?
>
> Is there a signal at 36,000 feet?

Why would a network waste kW of power pointing a signal up in the air
where there's no-one there to use it? Of course there's not a signal at
36,000
--
Regards
Jon

Geoff wrote:
> GSM to work on Mickey's planes.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5298332.stm
>
> Looking at the FAQ
> http://www.onair.aero/en/faq/faq_mobile_industry.pdf
> it looks like I could set my mobile to not roam and get back on my own
> network rather than helping Ryanair's profits.
>
> What do you folks think?
>
> Is there a signal at 36,000 feet?
>
> Geoff

God I hope not. It`s already annoying enough on a Chav-air flight with
every queueing up for 15 hours before the plane starts boarding without
everyone on the phone "YEAH, I`M ON THE PLANE!!!! WILL BE THERE IN 25
MINUTES!!!!!" at the top of their voices.

If there is a god, this idea will die very quickly!

"Geoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> GSM to work on Mickey's planes.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5298332.stm
>
> Looking at the FAQ
> http://www.onair.aero/en/faq/faq_mobile_industry.pdf
> it looks like I could set my mobile to not roam and get back on my own
> network rather than helping Ryanair's profits.
>
> What do you folks think?
>
> Is there a signal at 36,000 feet?
>
> Geoff
>
A few months ago I was standing ontop of Westminster City Hall (the old one)
and I couldnt get a signal there on any network.

So I guess you would struggle at 36,000 feet dont you.

Antenna are always pointed horizontally or tilted just a few degrees up or
down depending on the lay of the land etc.

And, yes, handovers would be a problem too.......... an average BTS will
radiate for 10-20 mile in excellent conditions. How fast does an aircraft
fly at? That would be a handover every second or so. I dont think that would
be too good either?

Steve

"R. Mark Clayton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Geoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> GSM to work on Mickey's planes.
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5298332.stm
>>
>> Looking at the FAQ
>> http://www.onair.aero/en/faq/faq_mobile_industry.pdf
>> it looks like I could set my mobile to not roam and get back on my own
>> network rather than helping Ryanair's profits.
>
> Well mobiles do work inside aircraft, although I have only done this while
> the aircraft is on its stand (in flight in the UK is an offence), but
> Ryanair are Irish.
>
>>
>> What do you folks think?
>>
>> Is there a signal at 36,000 feet?
>
> Not a lot. O2 & Voda (in UK) should work better from 900MHz macrocells.
> OTOH the longer waves will not get through the windows so well. You are
> also likely to be between 5 and seven miles from the base station at best
> and need to hand over every minute or so, so you are unlikely to get very
> good or stable calls.
>
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>>
>
> The key worry is the transmitter in the phone interfering with the
> avionics on the plane. My mobile will make video screens jump about and
> the phone buzz and I am only 250m clear line from a macro cell. So let's
> hope they are right in their assessment below: -
>
> Q20 Why have mobile phones been banned until now?
>
> A20 Mobile phones are banned on aircraft because they can log on to, or
> attempt to log on to, a terrestrial network during the flight, and by
> doing so, start to radiate at their maximum power, exceeding levels
> acceptable in the aeronautical environment. This can create harmful
> interference to the avionics and therefore be hazardous to the safe
> operation of the aircraft.
>
> The Mobile OnAir solution ensures that mobile phones on board will not
> attempt to log on to terrestrial networks, and emulates a local GSM
> network inside the aircraft, thus requiring much lower transmission power
> from the mobile phones on board, staying within the power limits for safe
> operation of the aircraft.
>
No they wont. If the phone is set to Manual network selection then the phone
will only try and get onto its own network so it will still attempt this
until told to do otherwise, so still radiating at maximum power until it
finds its home signal.

Are RyanAir expecting people to change the op selection to Automatic? Some
people dont even know how to send a text/save an entry in their phone, so
setting network selection will be a bit a of a task for them!!

Steve

Steve wrote:
> "Geoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> GSM to work on Mickey's planes.
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5298332.stm
>>
>> Looking at the FAQ
>> http://www.onair.aero/en/faq/faq_mobile_industry.pdf
>> it looks like I could set my mobile to not roam and get back on my own
>> network rather than helping Ryanair's profits.
>>
>> What do you folks think?
>>
>> Is there a signal at 36,000 feet?
>>
>> Geoff
>>
> A few months ago I was standing ontop of Westminster City Hall (the old one)
> and I couldnt get a signal there on any network.
>
> So I guess you would struggle at 36,000 feet dont you.
>
> Antenna are always pointed horizontally or tilted just a few degrees up or
> down depending on the lay of the land etc.
>
> And, yes, handovers would be a problem too.......... an average BTS will
> radiate for 10-20 mile in excellent conditions. How fast does an aircraft
> fly at? That would be a handover every second or so. I dont think that would
> be too good either?
>
> Steve
>
>

From the Register

The system operates by having a GSM picocell located on the plane. GSM
handsets adjust their output power depending on their proximity to the
nearest cell so, by having a cell onboard, the output power is kept to a
minimum, vastly reducing any potential risk of interference with
aircraft instruments.

From the picocell the connection is over a satellite link, which will
introduce an unavoidable latency. Voice and SMS should work acceptably
and most GPRS applications including email and web surfing, but no World
of Warcraft over the Atlantic. The system is also GSM and GPRS only, no 3G.
-----------------

--
Dave C

[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> From the picocell the connection is over a satellite link, which will
> introduce an unavoidable latency. Voice and SMS should work acceptably
> and most GPRS applications including email and web surfing, but no World
> of Warcraft over the Atlantic. The system is also GSM and GPRS only, no 3G.

A few months down the line I'm sure the picocell could be upgraded to
handle 2100MHz aswell. The bottleneck is probably going to be the
satellite link so a 3G upgrade may not bring any benefit.
--
Regards
Jon

[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> No they wont. If the phone is set to Manual network selection then the phone
> will only try and get onto its own network so it will still attempt this
> until told to do otherwise, so still radiating at maximum power until it
> finds its home signal.

On any phone I've ever seen on manual selection, when it goes out of
range the phone then prompts "scan for networks?" or similar. It will
not continuously try and log onto one network.

> Are RyanAir expecting people to change the op selection to Automatic? Some
> people dont even know how to send a text/save an entry in their phone, so
> setting network selection will be a bit a of a task for them!!

In the normal course of events there is no reason to change away from
automatic. The only reason to do so might be to save a few pence while
abroad. Therefore that type of person would already know how to control
their device.

The people that don't know how to are going to be the people that don't
ever need to.
--
Regards
Jon

"Simon Finnigan" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> God I hope not. It`s already annoying enough on a Chav-air flight with
> every queueing up for 15 hours before the plane starts boarding without
> everyone on the phone "YEAH, I`M ON THE PLANE!!!! WILL BE THERE IN 25
> MINUTES!!!!!" at the top of their voices.
>
Weren't Air France planning something similar, but only allowing SMS and
possibly data calls. They were definitly not allowing voice calls, I assume
for this very reason.

Phil

"Steve" <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> A few months ago I was standing ontop of Westminster City Hall (the old one)
> and I couldnt get a signal there on any network.
>
> So I guess you would struggle at 36,000 feet dont you.
>
When walking on the Peak District Edges I usually get a very strong signal,
but voice call quality can be very poor. I guess this is due to the phone
being logged onto a base station that is miles away, and I am neither inside
a metal box or travelling at 500mph.

Phil

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:21:51 +0100, Jon wrote:

> In the normal course of events there is no reason to change away from
> automatic. The only reason to do so might be to save a few pence while
> abroad. Therefore that type of person would already know how to control
> their device.
>
> The people that don't know how to are going to be the people that don't
> ever need to.

There's the case of people living at the border between the UK and the
republic of Ireland (or any other border). If the phone is left to
automatic, it will keep randomly switching to an Irish network. These
people often had their kids or friend "tweak" the phone (that is set it to
manual) to avoid that.

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:38:28 GMT, "Steve" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"R. Mark Clayton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> The Mobile OnAir solution ensures that mobile phones on board will not
>> attempt to log on to terrestrial networks, and emulates a local GSM
>> network inside the aircraft, thus requiring much lower transmission power
>> from the mobile phones on board, staying within the power limits for safe
>> operation of the aircraft.
>>
>No they wont. If the phone is set to Manual network selection then the phone
>will only try and get onto its own network so it will still attempt this
>until told to do otherwise, so still radiating at maximum power until it
>finds its home signal.
>
I thought the phone looked for networks of a certain 'colour' as it
were - there is a 3 bit field defining up to 8 separate networks to
which a mobile can 'attach'. it certainly doesn't choose just one BTS
to listen to - in our village the Voda BTS is in a different place
than the Orange BTS, yet phones interrogate both when scanning for
networks.

Presumably, the cell in the aircraft transmits all 8 potential
'network colours', so that phones have got a complete set of networks
to attach to - and then they find that on all 8 of them, the same
network operator is active. Presumably, this is how or why the
aircraft cell can keep the phone's power level down - by assuring the
phone that the phone has already found all the available signals.

Or have I misunderstood the role of the network 'colour' bits?


______________
best wishes,
Ron