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  1. #1
    Mark Coley
    Guest
    I'm not sure if my maths is wrong, but it looks like something may be up
    with Vodafone's billing system.

    My unbilled usage reports this info:

    Last Call: 12:32 22 Dec
    Amount unbilled £1.26
    Minutes used: 211.47
    SMS sent: 31
    GPRS used: 9.464MB

    (I got this by dialling 44555, which, interestingly has a different
    response from a friend's Vodafone, and a different format SMS detailing
    MMS, but not GPRS).

    The odd thing is the unbilled charge. I had 50-odd minutes rolling over
    from last month, according to Vodafone's website, so I've 250 to use on
    my 200 mins + 250 text package, so the charge is not from voice calls.
    The website confirms it is data I've been charged for after about the
    17th Dec. My 250 text package is equivalent to about 12.77MB of data
    (250 texts at 12p is £30, and this can be used by text messages at 12p
    each or £2.35/MB of data).

    Using SMS sent and data usage I get:

    31*0.12 + 9.464*2.35 = £25.96

    which means I'm still £4.04 away from my limit of £30. The breakdown on
    the web matches the totals, yet I've one WAP entry listed as partially
    bundled, but 3 later entries in time as being fully bundled. Thereafter
    I start getting charged. The amount unbilled is the sum of all these
    charges. This is the breakdown of the bit of the bill where the charging
    starts. At this point I've used about 8.80 MB.

    Dec/17/2006/22:10:46/Data/INTERNET/5KB/229BT/GBP/0.000/In/bundle
    Dec/17/2006/22:22:24/Data/INTERNET/2KB/676BT/GBP/0.000/In/bundle
    Dec/17/2006/23:05:23/Data/INTERNET/17KB/75BT/GBP/0.000/In/bundle
    Dec/17/2006/23:16:39/Data/WAP/139KB/354BT/GBP/0.000/In/bundle
    Dec/17/2006/23:23:01/Data/INTERNET/9KB/573BT/GBP/0.000/In/bundle
    Dec/17/2006/23:32:46/Data/WAP/40KB/336BT/GBP/0.012/Partiallybundled
    Dec/17/2006/23:34:38/Data/INTERNET/2KB/891BT/GBP/0.000/In/bundle
    Dec/17/2006/23:47:08/Data/INTERNET/2KB/600BT/GBP/0.000/In/bundle
    Dec/18/2006/13:32:57/Data/INTERNET/1KB/25BT/GBP/0.000/In/bundle
    Dec/18/2006/14:51:20/Data/WAP/33KB/853BT/GBP/0.067/
    Dec/18/2006/15:13:16/Data/INTERNET/1KB/943BT/GBP/0.004/
    Dec/18/2006/15:13:55/Data/INTERNET/56KB/549BT/GBP/0.111/
    Dec/18/2006/15:31:07/Data/INTERNET/14KB/144BT/GBP/0.028/
    Dec/18/2006/15:31:29/Data/INTERNET/811/BT/GBP/0.002/
    Dec/18/2006/15:31:51/Data/INTERNET/6KB/284BT/GBP/0.013/
    Dec/18/2006/17:29:17/Data/INTERNET/2KB/691BT/GBP/0.006/
    Dec/18/2006/17:43:30/Data/WAP/289KB/51BT/GBP/0.565/
    Dec/18/2006/17:53:32/Data/INTERNET/65KB/35BT/GBP/0.128/
    Dec/18/2006/18:38:53/Data/INTERNET/74KB/883BT/GBP/0.147/
    Dec/18/2006/20:16:44/Data/WAP/68KB/565BT/GBP/0.134/

    Any ideas? Between getting a 44555 report at lunchtime, and again this
    evening, the GPRS data seems to have changed (it is including more data
    now than earlier today) so maybe Vodafone are doing something to the
    billing systems today?

    Mark.



    See More: Possible Vodafone overcharging




  2. #2
    Mark Coley
    Guest

    Re: Possible Vodafone overcharging

    Mark Coley wrote:
    > I'm not sure if my maths is wrong, but it looks like something may be up
    > with Vodafone's billing system.
    >
    > My unbilled usage reports this info:
    >
    > Last Call: 12:32 22 Dec
    > Amount unbilled £1.26
    > Minutes used: 211.47
    > SMS sent: 31
    > GPRS used: 9.464MB


    Today's data is reporting:

    Last call: 22:10 22 Dec
    Amount unbilled £1.74
    Minutes used: 212.07
    SMS sent: 38
    GPRS used: 9.698MB

    Interesting, the extra 8 messages now appearing in the logs on
    vodafone's website date from Dec 13th to Dec 16th, which is way more
    than the 72 hours before the usage reports were sent.

    Some more digging in my phone's logs shows I have actually sent another
    30 sms since the 16th, some of which were > 160 characters, so will cost
    more.

    I think the reporting may be showing the correct total, but the wrong
    accounting. My credit appears to be real time, yet the logs do not show
    how it is calculated and are missing lots of info. It wouldn't surprise
    me if the allocation of charges changes over the next few days changes
    as the 6day+ delays in SMS account comes through.

    Mark.



  3. #3
    Mark Coley
    Guest

    Re: Possible Vodafone overcharging

    Mark Coley wrote:
    > Today's data is reporting:
    >
    > Last call: 22:10 22 Dec
    > Amount unbilled £1.74
    > Minutes used: 212.07
    > SMS sent: 38
    > GPRS used: 9.698MB


    Now it is showing 43 messages sent and the extra ones seem to have
    appeared for the 15th Dec (according to on line billing), which was well
    inside the reporting period of the last usages sms I got this morning
    (this referenced sms messages sent on the 16th).

    What's the point in have a last call date and time if it bears no
    relation to the data that follows it?

    Mark.



  4. #4
    john
    Guest

    Re: Possible Vodafone overcharging


    "Mark Coley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm not sure if my maths is wrong, but it looks like something may be up
    > with Vodafone's billing system.
    >
    > Any ideas?
    > Mark.


    Yes, speak to Vodafone unless you're willing to post your full name,
    address, phone numbers, passwords and account details. Then we can all call
    them for you.
    Did Vodafone tell you to ask in this newsgroup after you spoke to them? It
    seems a bit odd if they did.





  5. #5
    Mark Coley
    Guest

    Re: Possible Vodafone overcharging

    john wrote:
    > Yes, speak to Vodafone unless you're willing to post your full name,
    > address, phone numbers, passwords and account details. Then we can all call
    > them for you.
    > Did Vodafone tell you to ask in this newsgroup after you spoke to them? It
    > seems a bit odd if they did.


    I'm awaiting a reply from Vodafone. I posted this here in case other
    people are being affected.

    Mark.



  6. #6
    David Taylor
    Guest

    Re: Possible Vodafone overcharging

    On 2006-12-24, john <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > "Mark Coley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> I'm not sure if my maths is wrong, but it looks like something may be up
    >> with Vodafone's billing system.
    >>
    >> Any ideas?
    >> Mark.

    >
    > Yes, speak to Vodafone unless you're willing to post your full name,
    > address, phone numbers, passwords and account details. Then we can all call
    > them for you.
    > Did Vodafone tell you to ask in this newsgroup after you spoke to them? It
    > seems a bit odd if they did.


    Wow you're a pleasant chap, and at Christmas too.

    May I ask where it is stated that permission must be sought from your
    mobile phone provider in order to post problems here?

    --
    David Taylor



  7. #7
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: Possible Vodafone overcharging



    "David Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On 2006-12-24, john <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > "Mark Coley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > I'm not sure if my maths is wrong, but it looks like
    > > > something may be up with Vodafone's billing system.
    > > >
    > > > Any ideas?
    > > > Mark.

    > >
    > > Yes, speak to Vodafone unless you're willing to post
    > > your full name, address, phone numbers, passwords and
    > > account details. Then we can all call them for you.
    > > Did Vodafone tell you to ask in this newsgroup after
    > > you spoke to them? It seems a bit odd if they did.

    >
    > Wow you're a pleasant chap, and at Christmas too.
    >
    > May I ask where it is stated that permission must be
    > sought from your mobile phone provider in order to post
    > problems here?


    Nowhere, but it might be an idea to try.

    Ivor





  8. #8
    Mark Coley
    Guest

    Re: Possible Vodafone overcharging

    Latest SMS info:

    Last call 12:47 on the 23rd Dec,
    £5.25 unbilled
    45 sms sent
    11.450 MB used

    There are still no records of text messages sent after the 16th December
    on the on line billing pages, though there are calls listed for 23rd and
    internet usage on the 21st, so there appears to be a 10 day lag on SMS
    messages hitting the bill, a 4 day lag on internet, and a 2 day lag on
    phone calls. Can anyone else confirm their accounts are not showing
    SMS/internet traffic for such a long period?

    Mark.



  9. #9
    Mark Coley
    Guest

    Re: Possible Vodafone overcharging

    Mark Coley wrote:
    > I'm awaiting a reply from Vodafone. I posted this here in case other
    > people are being affected.
    >
    > Mark.


    OK, here is VF's reply. It makes interesting reading, though it isn't
    correct with regard to the extras pack not including data usage.



    Our 44555 services

    Dear Mark,

    Thanks for your email to Vodafone about the delay on our 44555 services
    and the data usage charges.

    I wish to tell you that due to high usage of text messages (SMS - Short
    Message Service) during the festival period, there is high backlog of
    data to be processed on our system. Thus there is a delay of data on our
    44555 services.

    I would like to apologise for any inconvenience you feel may have been
    caused Mark.

    Our engineers are working towards it. However, it may take few days, as
    the backlog is expected to increase till the mid of next month.

    Data Usage

    Mark, from 1st September 2006, data usage (and picture messaging) is no
    longer a part of Extras pack.

    From 1st September 2006, all existing customers with Extras packs will
    pay the standard Vodafone UK rate for data usage, picture messages and
    video messages.

    The charges (inc VAT) are as follows are:

    Data usage: £2.35 per MB
    Picture message: 36p
    Video message: 60p

    You can use the Extras pack for sending text messages only.

    You can also check the remaining inclusive calling minutes and text
    messages on your account by calling 191 from your phone and selecting
    option 2 and 1.

    However, here too the data takes approximately 72 hours to be updated
    (more in case of festival season) on our system, so the information
    given will only be approximate.

    Did you know that you can make unlimited calls to your family members
    and friends free of charge on the Vodafone network using Vodafone Family?

    To know more, please click here.

    Wish you a Merry Christmas Mark.

    I’m sure I will have covered everything but if there’s anything else I
    can do to help please reply to this email or click on 'Contact Us'.

    Kind regards,

    Vodafone Customer Services





  10. #10
    MinervaUK
    Guest

    Re: Possible Vodafone overcharging

    Hi Mark,

    Working for Vodafone, we haven't had any widespread problems with our
    billing system, although as mentioned this time of year is a busy one
    in terms of text, data and services being used and high volumes can
    lead to delays on the network. If you'd like our billing team to do an
    eventual recalculation to make sure everything is in order when the
    invoice is produced (next month), then please drop us another email
    including the relevant security information and, if you wish, a link to
    this thread (also, if you leave the short-code FIT135 in the body of
    the email this will route you through to a specific team at Vodafone
    who monitor customer queries on online messageboards / forums).

    To clear up any confusion, data usage will still be included in your
    extras pack if the pack was in place on your account 'before' 1st
    September 2006 (all new text packs taken out from 1st September 2006
    onwards will no longer include data, although the old £40.00 extras
    pack is still on offer and does provide 51.1MB of data if required).

    Any other questions, please let me know.


    Mark Coley wrote:
    > Mark Coley wrote:
    > > I'm awaiting a reply from Vodafone. I posted this here in case other
    > > people are being affected.
    > >
    > > Mark.

    >
    > OK, here is VF's reply. It makes interesting reading, though it isn't
    > correct with regard to the extras pack not including data usage.
    >
    >
    >
    > Our 44555 services
    >
    > Dear Mark,
    >
    > Thanks for your email to Vodafone about the delay on our 44555 services
    > and the data usage charges.
    >
    > I wish to tell you that due to high usage of text messages (SMS - Short
    > Message Service) during the festival period, there is high backlog of
    > data to be processed on our system. Thus there is a delay of data on our
    > 44555 services.
    >
    > I would like to apologise for any inconvenience you feel may have been
    > caused Mark.
    >
    > Our engineers are working towards it. However, it may take few days, as
    > the backlog is expected to increase till the mid of next month.
    >
    > Data Usage
    >
    > Mark, from 1st September 2006, data usage (and picture messaging) is no
    > longer a part of Extras pack.
    >
    > From 1st September 2006, all existing customers with Extras packs will
    > pay the standard Vodafone UK rate for data usage, picture messages and
    > video messages.
    >
    > The charges (inc VAT) are as follows are:
    >
    > Data usage: £2.35 per MB
    > Picture message: 36p
    > Video message: 60p
    >
    > You can use the Extras pack for sending text messages only.
    >
    > You can also check the remaining inclusive calling minutes and text
    > messages on your account by calling 191 from your phone and selecting
    > option 2 and 1.
    >
    > However, here too the data takes approximately 72 hours to be updated
    > (more in case of festival season) on our system, so the information
    > given will only be approximate.
    >
    > Did you know that you can make unlimited calls to your family members
    > and friends free of charge on the Vodafone network using Vodafone Family?
    >
    > To know more, please click here.
    >
    > Wish you a Merry Christmas Mark.
    >
    > I'm sure I will have covered everything but if there's anything else I
    > can do to help please reply to this email or click on 'Contact Us'.
    >
    > Kind regards,
    >
    > Vodafone Customer Services





  11. #11
    Mark Coley
    Guest

    Re: Possible Vodafone overcharging

    MinervaUK wrote:
    > Hi Mark,
    >
    > Working for Vodafone, we haven't had any widespread problems with our
    > billing system...


    I doubt many people are as aware as I am! The main issue really is with
    a billing system that leads you to believe that it is accurate up to a
    certain date (by mentioning the date of the last recorded call) but then
    data and SMS from 10 days previous to this are not actually factored in.
    It would be better to remove the service entirely if it doesn't work,
    or at least say 'This information reflects your charges as of 10 days
    ago' (but then there would be little point in having a service so out of
    date!) I understand roaming data may be late, but local uk traffic
    should be accounted for at all times. When the online billing service
    first launched I remember testing it and it was effectively live - if
    you made a call it would appear immediately, but then not long after
    launch a 72-hour lag was put on it. The delay now is somewhere less than
    this for calls, but it seems not for sms or data.

    I'll send a message in when the bill is finally done - there are a
    number of other issues - the maths just doesn't add up (see above) and
    also the allocation of inclusive data/sms doesn't appear to be used up
    chronologically, ie some data is charged for as the allowance has been
    used up, but then half an hour later more data is still within the
    bundle, which had supposedly been used up half an hour previously. I'm
    not sure if these are transient errors though - such data may be
    calculated on the fly from different sources so I'll only know at the
    end of the month. I have noticed too that the minutes used figure does
    reflect the bundle minutes used now (factoring in stop the clock) rather
    than the total number of minutes talked, which really wasn't that
    useful. Now all it needs is the number of rolled over minutes so you
    really know where you are.

    Thanks for your reply though,

    Mark.



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