Results 1 to 15 of 37
- 01-01-2007, 11:56 PM #1MikeGuest
I know this isn't really legal, but I'm curious so I thought I'd ask
Say my name used to be David Tyke & I ran up £60,000 of debt
(unsecured) on credit cards. But I couldn't afford to pay it back.
So I dyed my hair, relocated, changed my name by Deed Poll (to Mike
Tyke) & got a new passport
I then opened a new bank account saying it was my very first bank
aco**** in the uk as I grew up in Italy
Couple of questions
- Is this illegal?
- Any comments on this (apart from it being totally immoral & screwing
the banks)
Now I realise the banks & debt collectors have ways and means of
tracing people. Including using using mobile phone signals to pin-point
location (possibly) - which is why I have trashed my phone & got a PAYG
phone. Much better. No more big brother watching over me.
Also, if I didn't do any of the above & simply moved to canada, the USA
or oz, is there *anything* the banks could do? Cos the police won't
give a f**k & have no intentions of returning to the UK. It's not like
they are going to extradite me.
Please remember this is all hypothetical.
I am just curious.
› See More: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
- 01-02-2007, 01:26 AM #2JonGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> I know this isn't really legal, but I'm curious so I thought I'd ask
>
>
> Say my name used to be David Tyke & I ran up =A360,000 of debt
> (unsecured) on credit cards. But I couldn't afford to pay it back.
>
> So I dyed my hair, relocated, changed my name by Deed Poll (to Mike
> Tyke) & got a new passport
>
> I then opened a new bank account saying it was my very first bank
> aco**** in the uk as I grew up in Italy
>
>
>
> Couple of questions
>
> - Is this illegal?
I think if it could be proved that you were doing it with intent to get
out of your debt, I.e. fraud, then you would probably be in trouble.
IANAL mind you.
> Now I realise the banks & debt collectors have ways and means of
> tracing people. Including using using mobile phone signals to pin-point
> location (possibly)
Or not. Locating someone using the phone is only done in life or death
situations, e.g. Ian Huntley in the Soham double-murder case.
> - which is why I have trashed my phone & got a PAYG
> phone. Much better. No more big brother watching over me.
Big brother still watches over you. He just will take a bit longer to
find out who you are.
> Also, if I didn't do any of the above & simply moved to canada, the USA
> or oz, is there *anything* the banks could do?
Sure there is. These banks communicate with each other! Do Credit
reference agencies share data across borders? Maybe, maybe not. Either
way your credit rating is ****ed.
--
Regards
Jon
- 01-02-2007, 01:44 AM #3BystanderGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
I know this isn't really legal,
Correct. The law on fraud changed yesterday.
Say my name used to be David Tyke & I ran up £60,000 of debt
(unsecured) on credit cards. But I couldn't afford to pay it back.
Civil matter - bankruptcy is probably best
So I dyed my hair, relocated, changed my name by Deed Poll (to Mike
Tyke) & got a new passport
I then opened a new bank account saying it was my very first bank
aco**** in the uk as I grew up in Italy
Clear intention to defraud
- Is this illegal?
- Any comments on this (apart from it being totally immoral & screwing
the banks)
Yes, it's illegal, so immoral doesn't come into it.
- 01-02-2007, 02:15 AM #4TumbleweedGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I then opened a new bank account saying it was my very first bank
>aco**** in the uk as I grew up in Italy
Tried opening a bank account recently?
> - Is this illegal?
Yes
>Now I realise the banks & debt collectors have ways and means of
>tracing people. Including using using mobile phone signals to pin-point
>location (possibly) - which is why I have trashed my phone & got a PAYG
>phone. Much better. No more big brother watching over me.
LOL
>Also, if I didn't do any of the above & simply moved to canada, the USA
>or oz, is there *anything* the banks could do? Cos the police won't
>give a f**k & have no intentions of returning to the UK. It's not like
>they are going to extradite me.
You think its "simple" to move to the US or Canada or Oz?
>Please remember this is all hypothetical.
>I am just curious.
No, simple.
--
Tumbleweed
email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
- 01-02-2007, 02:34 AM #5Brian AGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 08:15:05 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>I then opened a new bank account saying it was my very first bank
>>aco**** in the uk as I grew up in Italy
>
>Tried opening a bank account recently?
>
>> - Is this illegal?
>
>Yes
>
>>Now I realise the banks & debt collectors have ways and means of
>>tracing people. Including using using mobile phone signals to pin-point
>>location (possibly) - which is why I have trashed my phone & got a PAYG
>>phone. Much better. No more big brother watching over me.
>
>LOL
>
>
>>Also, if I didn't do any of the above & simply moved to canada, the USA
>>or oz, is there *anything* the banks could do? Cos the police won't
>>give a f**k & have no intentions of returning to the UK. It's not like
>>they are going to extradite me.
>
>You think its "simple" to move to the US or Canada or Oz?
>
>>Please remember this is all hypothetical.
>
>>I am just curious.
>
>No, simple.
Naivety abounds!!
The very fact that you have posted to this newsgroup can lead a trail
back to you. Further, you have intimated why you changed your identity
- to avoid the law. An admission of guilt in writing!
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
- 01-02-2007, 03:42 AM #6Alex HeneyGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
On 1 Jan 2007 21:56:21 -0800, "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I know this isn't really legal, but I'm curious so I thought I'd ask
>
>
>Say my name used to be David Tyke & I ran up £60,000 of debt
>(unsecured) on credit cards. But I couldn't afford to pay it back.
>
>So I dyed my hair, relocated, changed my name by Deed Poll (to Mike
>Tyke) & got a new passport
>
>I then opened a new bank account saying it was my very first bank
>aco**** in the uk as I grew up in Italy
>
>
>
>Couple of questions
>
>- Is this illegal?
Yes.
It is fraud (Obtaining financial services by deception)
>- Any comments on this (apart from it being totally immoral & screwing
>the banks)
>
>
>Now I realise the banks & debt collectors have ways and means of
>tracing people. Including using using mobile phone signals to pin-point
>location (possibly) - which is why I have trashed my phone & got a PAYG
>phone. Much better. No more big brother watching over me.
>
The banks and debt collectors etc have no access to your mobile phone
records.
Never mind to your current location via mobile phone.
>
>Also, if I didn't do any of the above & simply moved to canada, the USA
>or oz, is there *anything* the banks could do? Cos the police won't
>give a f**k & have no intentions of returning to the UK. It's not like
>they are going to extradite me.
>
They could still sue you, and get judgement enforced.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Crime does not pay...as well as politics.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
- 01-02-2007, 06:17 AM #7Mark GoodgeGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:23:12 +0000, Anthony R. Gold put finger to
keyboard and typed:
>On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 07:44:14 -0000, "Bystander" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> I know this isn't really legal,
>>
>> Correct. The law on fraud changed yesterday.
>>
>> Say my name used to be David Tyke & I ran up £60,000 of debt
>> (unsecured) on credit cards. But I couldn't afford to pay it back.
>>
>> Civil matter - bankruptcy is probably best
>>
>> So I dyed my hair, relocated, changed my name by Deed Poll (to Mike
>> Tyke) & got a new passport
>> I then opened a new bank account saying it was my very first bank
>> aco**** in the uk as I grew up in Italy
>>
>> Clear intention to defraud
>
>At what point was that the clear intention?
Saying it's his first UK bank account. That's an outright lie, and
hence constitutes clear evidence of intention to mislead.
> I'd say the name change is
>only part of a fraud if the £60,000 of debts were run up in anticipation
>of this name change. Now and at this point in time that all that is clear
>to me is the OP's present intention to evade his past creditors which is
>not fraud. Even filing his false and misleading bank account application
>may not be fraud, depending on the particular facts and circumstances and
>whether it is found that this action exposes someone to a risk of loss.
It isn't necessary to actually cause someone loss in order to be
guilty of obtaining financial services by deception. The mere fact of
obtaining them by means of a lie is enough, even if you subequently
act entirely honestly in respect to the services so obtained.
I'd agree that it's not actually *fraud*, per se, unless it causes
actual loss to someone else. But obtaining financial services by
deception is an offence in its own right which doesn't require there
to have been a "victim" in the usual sense. It's a bit like the
difference between, say, dangerous driving and causing death by
dangerous driving - you can be guilty of the former even if you don't
actually cause an accident and it's an entirely victimless offence.
Mark
--
Visit: http://www.ukcommunityradio.info - Community Radio in the UK
"I don't care if Monday's blue"
- 01-02-2007, 07:55 AM #8Ronald RaygunGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
Anthony R. Gold wrote:
> Fraud by false representation or by failing to disclose information does
> require that there to be a gain for himself or another or a loss or an
> exposure to the risk of a loss to another; whether either of those will
> have happened depends on all of the facts and circumstances.
In the proposed circumstances there appears to be an intention to use the
name change to evade an existing £60k debt. If successful, that would
clearly represent a "loss to another", wouldn't you say?
- 01-02-2007, 08:11 AM #9Mark GoodgeGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 13:42:28 +0000, Anthony R. Gold put finger to
keyboard and typed:
>On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:17:02 +0000, Mark Goodge
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Saying it's his first UK bank account. That's an outright lie, and
>> hence constitutes clear evidence of intention to mislead.
>
>Undoubtedly, but lying and misleading someone does not amount to fraud.
No, but they may amount to a different offence.
>> But obtaining financial services by
>> deception is an offence in its own right which doesn't require there
>> to have been a "victim" in the usual sense.
>
>What offense under which Act?
Obtaining services by deception, Theft Act 1978, as amended by the
Theft Act 1996. Actually, you'd need to get a loan for it to be an
offence, so merely having a bank account and keeping it in credit
wouldn't break the law even if you lied to get it. But if you obtain a
credit card, or go overdrawn on a current account, then it's a breach
of the law if you used deception to obtain the card or account.
Mark
--
Visit: http://www.CorporateContact.info - phone and email contacts for Amazon, Paypal, eBay and lots of other hard-to-contact organisations
"If you never know truth then you never know love"
- 01-02-2007, 10:12 AM #10ThePunisherGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I know this isn't really legal, but I'm curious so I thought I'd ask
>
>
> Say my name used to be David Tyke & I ran up £60,000 of debt
> (unsecured) on credit cards. But I couldn't afford to pay it back.
>
> So I dyed my hair, relocated, changed my name by Deed Poll (to Mike
> Tyke) & got a new passport
>
> I then opened a new bank account saying it was my very first bank
> aco**** in the uk as I grew up in Italy
>
>
>
> Couple of questions
>
> - Is this illegal?
> - Any comments on this (apart from it being totally immoral & screwing
> the banks)
>
>
> Now I realise the banks & debt collectors have ways and means of
> tracing people. Including using using mobile phone signals to
> pin-point location (possibly) - which is why I have trashed my phone
> & got a PAYG phone. Much better. No more big brother watching over me.
>
>
>
>
> Also, if I didn't do any of the above & simply moved to canada, the
> USA or oz, is there *anything* the banks could do? Cos the police
> won't give a f**k & have no intentions of returning to the UK. It's
> not like they are going to extradite me.
>
>
> Please remember this is all hypothetical.
>
> I am just curious.
Too much trouble, do this, look up the deaths and find a baby who died just
after birth around the same time you were born, send away for a copy of his
birth cert and Bob's your uncle.
--
ThePunisher
- 01-02-2007, 11:21 AM #11Alex HeneyGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:42:47 +0000, "Anthony R. Gold"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 09:42:06 +0000, Alex Heney <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 1 Jan 2007 21:56:21 -0800, "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I know this isn't really legal, but I'm curious so I thought I'd ask
>>>
>>>
>>> Say my name used to be David Tyke & I ran up £60,000 of debt
>>> (unsecured) on credit cards. But I couldn't afford to pay it back.
>>>
>>> So I dyed my hair, relocated, changed my name by Deed Poll (to Mike
>>> Tyke) & got a new passport
>>>
>>> I then opened a new bank account saying it was my very first bank
>>> aco**** in the uk as I grew up in Italy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Couple of questions
>>>
>>> - Is this illegal?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> It is fraud (Obtaining financial services by deception)
>
>That is now "obtaining services dishonestly" which requires that services
>be obtained on the basis that payment has been, is being or will be made
>for or in respect of them and when no such payment has been, is being or
>will be made. As stated by the OP, that does not apply in this situation.
I am not at all convinced that is a requirement.
The law does say "(2) It is an obtaining of services where the other
is induced to confer a benefit by doing some act, or causing or
permitting some act to be done, on the understanding that the benefit
has been or will be paid for."
But it does not say that "Dishonestly obtaining services by deception"
means that no such payment has been made. I would say that any
situation where the supplier is induced to offer those services by a
lie on the part of the customer is doing that.
Nor does it say that is the only definition of obtaining services.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
In youth we learn; in age we understand.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
- 01-02-2007, 11:59 AM #12Peter LynchGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:12:49 GMT, ThePunisher wrote:
>
> Too much trouble, do this, look up the deaths and find a baby who died just
> after birth around the same time you were born, send away for a copy of his
> birth cert and Bob's your uncle.
>
Well, there's a little more to it than that.
Some years ago there was an aricle in the FT called something like
"how to disappear". Conclusion was that it was:
a.) expensive to do properly
b.) took time to establish your alternate persona _before_ you
make the break
c.) required you to break contact with all your friends and family
The upshot is, that if all you're trying to do is wriggle out from paying
your debts, then an IVA is possibly cheaper/easier and means you won't
spend the rest of your life worrying that someone's found you.
Your credit rating will be completely non-existent in either case
so that balances out.
Usual disclaimers apply: IANAFC, don't lend someone money for plastic
surgery, etc.
Pete
--
...........................................................................
.. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
.. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
.. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................
- 01-02-2007, 03:09 PM #13TumbleweedGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
"ThePunisher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Too much trouble, do this, look up the deaths and find a baby who died
> just after birth around the same time you were born, send away for a copy
> of his birth cert and Bob's your uncle.
I thought that loophole was plugged years ago?
--
Tumbleweed
email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
- 01-02-2007, 04:10 PM #14Alex HeneyGuest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:51:26 +0000, "Anthony R. Gold"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:21:00 +0000, Alex Heney <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:42:47 +0000, "Anthony R. Gold"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 09:42:06 +0000, Alex Heney <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1 Jan 2007 21:56:21 -0800, "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I know this isn't really legal, but I'm curious so I thought I'd ask
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Say my name used to be David Tyke & I ran up £60,000 of debt
>>>>> (unsecured) on credit cards. But I couldn't afford to pay it back.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I dyed my hair, relocated, changed my name by Deed Poll (to Mike
>>>>> Tyke) & got a new passport
>>>>>
>>>>> I then opened a new bank account saying it was my very first bank
>>>>> aco**** in the uk as I grew up in Italy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Couple of questions
>>>>>
>>>>> - Is this illegal?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> It is fraud (Obtaining financial services by deception)
>>>
>>> That is now "obtaining services dishonestly" which requires that services
>>> be obtained on the basis that payment has been, is being or will be made
>>> for or in respect of them and when no such payment has been, is being or
>>> will be made. As stated by the OP, that does not apply in this situation.
>>
>> I am not at all convinced that is a requirement.
>>
>> The law does say "(2) It is an obtaining of services where the other
>> is induced to confer a benefit by doing some act, or causing or
>> permitting some act to be done, on the understanding that the benefit
>> has been or will be paid for."
>
>That section of the Theft (Amendment) Act 1996 was repealed in the Fraud
>Act 2006.
>
So what I said is correct now. But won't be in a fortnight :-)
I wasn't aware of the change due to the Fraud Act 2006, but having
checked, the replacement provision (section 11) certainly does have
the effect you suggest, but does not come into force until 15th
January 2007.
Which presumably is why SLD does not yet show the amendment :-)
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
A clean desk is a sign of a cluttered desk drawer.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
- 01-02-2007, 04:49 PM #15Guest
Re: Getting a new identity & a new credit history
On 1 Jan 2007 21:56:21 -0800, "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Say my name used to be David Tyke & I ran up £60,000 of debt
>(unsecured) on credit cards. But I couldn't afford to pay it back.
>
>So I dyed my hair, relocated, changed my name by Deed Poll (to Mike
>Tyke) & got a new passport
>
>I then opened a new bank account saying it was my very first bank
>aco**** in the uk as I grew up in Italy
>
>
>
>Couple of questions
>
>- Is this illegal?
Of course it is. It is fraud.
>- Any comments on this (apart from it being totally immoral & screwing
>the banks)
If you are run up debts you can't repay, the bankruptcy system is the
way to go. And you are clear of debt in 12 months with no need of hair
dye.
--
Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!
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