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- 04-17-2007, 04:34 PM #16tony sayerGuest
Re: O2 Complaints
In article <[email protected]>, Lofty
<[email protected]> writes
>
>>> Anything else ?
>>> A PC ? No, they are usually return to base warranties after 8 months, and
>>> you certainly wouldn't get a replacement while it was being repaired. Nor
>>> would your loss of data be covered.
>>>
>>
>> Yes but your examples above are not to provide services but products, big
>> difference.
>
>But that's all the O2 shop does - it provides a one off product for a one
>off commission. After that, the shop earns nothing from a customer's monthly
>payments. The contract is in place, the customer is tied to it and the
>commission cannot be reclaimed from the shop/staff.
>So to that extent the shop provides a product, then O2 take over and
>run/manage the contract.
>
>> If your phone line goes faulty then BT offer free divert to mobile and can
>> give some costs towards making calls
>
>Of course they do because they are providing the service. If you went into a
>BT shop (do they still exist in the High Street ? They used to but I haven't
>seen one for ages) they would not do any of that for you. I bet they would
>refer you to the telephone fault reporting people - the customer service
>people. They are the ones who have taken over the contract and are providing
>the service. It is in THEIR interests to keep you as a customer.
>
>The individual shops (or more accurately the low paid - boosted by
>commission) shop staff have no vested interest in keeping customers. They
>just want the commission in their pay packet at the end of the month. A
>customer with a faulty phone is not going to make them a penny for the time
>they spend sorting the problem out.
No but human nature being what it is they will remember their duff phone
more then they will remember their one that worked OK.
They will remember the shop that sorted out their problem..
Question..
how many times do you remember your car starting OK over say the last
few years?.
And how many times do you remember it when it didn't start or otherwise
let you down?..
The fist will be many times.. The second will, one hopes, be very much
fewer!...
But which one will you remember more?..
>
>I'm not saying that is how it should be, just how I have found things are.
>That's why I talked about the independent retailer who generally has a much
>more vested interest in keeping happy customers.
Indeed
>
>I wonder what would have happened if the OP had phoned O2 customer telephone
>support and kicked up a (polite) stink. He may have had more joy.
>
>Mind you, O2 are structured very strangely, their online stores and High
>Street stores seem to be run as seperate entities, and if you buy a contract
>in a shop, you have to speak to someone different to if you had bought the
>contract online.
>
>> Stephen
>>
>
>
--
Tony Sayer
› See More: O2 Complaints
- 04-18-2007, 01:22 AM #17LoftyGuest
Re: O2 Complaints
> Question..
>
> how many times do you remember your car starting OK over say the last
> few years?.
>
> And how many times do you remember it when it didn't start or otherwise
> let you down?..
>
> The fist will be many times.. The second will, one hopes, be very much
> fewer!...
>
> But which one will you remember more?..
That's probably a bit of an unfair question. I have a 2 year old Freelander
and it has started every morning, first time, for every day of those 2
years, so I don't remember any times when it didn't start ;-)
But that in itself tells a story, as Landrover had a particularly bad image
with early model Freelanders, but have worked hard on them, and the later
models are pretty reliable. Don't know what the new model is like, as I'm
getting something completely different at the end of the month, but I am
sure it is a well built car.
So I agree with you. Shop staff SHOULD care about their customers - minimum
wage or £30k a year, it should not impact the way they do their job.
You are also right that the store Manager should motivate his/her staff to
provide good service, as the Manager is the one who probably will be with
the Company in 12-18 months time when that customer decides whether to go
back to the shop for an upgrade or find another shop.
Unfortunately, in reality, people in large organisations seem to have little
loyalty to the brand and do not think long term.
To an extent, that's to do with the way we select and promote Managers these
days, but that's a whole new topic, and my talk of Freelanders has already
pushed the envelope of what might be considered 'off topic'.
Cheers
Lofty
- 04-18-2007, 01:55 AM #18LoftyGuest
Re: O2 Complaints
> Yes but your examples above are not to provide services but products, big
> difference.
>
> If your phone line goes faulty then BT offer free divert to mobile and can
> give some costs towards making calls
>
> Stephen
But if your home handset fails, and BT are still providing a working line,
they won't do anything for you - even if you bought the phone from them and
it was under warranty.
They are still providing the phone line (the service bit), and the hardware
side is dealt with as a separate issue under the various consumer laws, the
terms of the equipment warranty and any extra benefits the company chooses
to offer as goodwill gestures.
(In fact I believe BT diverting calls to a mobile and contributing to calls
is a goodwill gesture, as they are not - under their contract - obliged to
provide you with 24/7 365 days a year phone line. Things break down, and
their contract covers them for that. If you pay for a business line you get
a faster guaranteed fix time and compensation if they fail to meet their
stated times, but for standard residential lines you are actually entitled
to very little. BT make the offer you describe outwith their contract terms,
in order to promote good customer relations and to try and stop customers
walking away in a very competitive market place).
So I don't see the O2 case being much different - the service is still being
provided.
The shop in question did not offer a replacement handset as a goodwill
gesture, but I doubt they are obliged to under the terms of an O2 contract.
The staff's hands were probably tied in that respect. I doubt the shop
carries a stock of 2nd hand phones to loan to customers when theirs are
being repaired. And they are not about to dish out a brand new hand set and
have it come back 'used' in a months time.
And O2 were still providing the SERVICE (a working SIM card and a
functioning line). The fact the customer could not make use of it because
the hardware failed is then related to hardware warranty, not the service
provided by O2.
Therefore my examples are valid - in my opinion, and your example of BT is
different - in your scenario, BT have failed to provide the ongoing service
you are paying for.
This is a hardware issue, not a service failure issue.
Having said all that, it does sound like the staff in the shop could have
been more helpful and sympathetic. But I doubt they had any facility to loan
a phone. How many would they have to keep in a box under the counter ? 3 ?
8? 10? 20?
However many they had, when they have a bad week, there is always going to
be the customer who comes in when the last one has been loaned out and there
are none left.
So I am a bit on their side on the 'no loan phone' issue.
My local independent shop has a few spare phones in a box, but will give
them out to their regular good customers and when they are gone they are
gone.
Lofty
- 04-18-2007, 03:28 AM #19JonGuest
Re: Re: O2 Complaints
[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> Not quite. Orange will do a 14 day money back return policy if you
> order over the phone under the distance selling act, but buy it from
> the shop and that's it, it's yours.
Sorry old fruit, but that is as wrong as you can be.
--
Regards
Jon
- 04-18-2007, 03:29 AM #20JonGuest
Re: O2 Complaints
[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> > O2 are not obliged to provide one.
> Rubbish, She's got a contract with o2 to provide her with a service if they
> take her phone and don't give her a replacement then they are not providing
> the service as sold.
The contract is to supply airtime to the SIM card. The handset is
entirely separate from the airtime contract.
> > And? Phones go wrong occasionally.
>
> o2 should then be covered by the manufacturer to get it replaced.
Repaired or replaced. Read the warranty terms. And it's the
manufacturers decision to repair or replace, not yours.
--
Regards
Jon
- 04-18-2007, 03:45 AM #21LurchGuest
Re: Re: Re: O2 Complaints
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:28:11 +0100, Jon <[email protected]>
mused:
>[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
>> Not quite. Orange will do a 14 day money back return policy if you
>> order over the phone under the distance selling act, but buy it from
>> the shop and that's it, it's yours.
>
>Sorry old fruit, but that is as wrong as you can be.
Care to tell me what is correct then. Thge above is exactly what
Orange told me recently.
--
Regards,
Stuart.
- 04-18-2007, 09:18 AM #22JonGuest
Re: Re: Re: O2 Complaints
[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:28:11 +0100, Jon <[email protected]>
> mused:
>
> >[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> >> Not quite. Orange will do a 14 day money back return policy if you
> >> order over the phone under the distance selling act, but buy it from
> >> the shop and that's it, it's yours.
> >
> >Sorry old fruit, but that is as wrong as you can be.
>
> Care to tell me what is correct then. Thge above is exactly what
> Orange told me recently.
You have 14 days to return the phone without having to give a reason.
Credit cannot be refunded but may be transferred to another Orange
phone.
If you upgraded your phone, you will have to re-upgrade to another
phone, you cannot simply reverse your upgrade.
--
Regards
Jon
- 04-18-2007, 10:06 AM #23Dave MayallGuest
Re: O2 Complaints
"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
>> Twenty eight days to repair
>
> This is an upper estimate, it will almost certainly come back sooner
> than that.
>
>> no phones available for her to use whilst it is under repair.
>
> O2 are not obliged to provide one.
They are obliged under SOGA to replace if a repair cannot be achieved
without undue inconvenience to the purchaser.
- 04-18-2007, 10:06 AM #24Dave MayallGuest
Re: Re: Re: O2 Complaints
"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
>> On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:28:11 +0100, Jon <[email protected]>
>> mused:
>>
>> >[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
>> >> Not quite. Orange will do a 14 day money back return policy if you
>> >> order over the phone under the distance selling act, but buy it from
>> >> the shop and that's it, it's yours.
>> >
>> >Sorry old fruit, but that is as wrong as you can be.
>>
>> Care to tell me what is correct then. Thge above is exactly what
>> Orange told me recently.
>
> You have 14 days to return the phone without having to give a reason.
> Credit cannot be refunded but may be transferred to another Orange
> phone.
>
> If you upgraded your phone, you will have to re-upgrade to another
> phone, you cannot simply reverse your upgrade.
Not true.
- 04-18-2007, 10:07 AM #25Dave MayallGuest
Re: O2 Complaints
"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> o2 should then be covered by the manufacturer to get it replaced.
>
> Repaired or replaced. Read the warranty terms. And it's the
> manufacturers decision to repair or replace, not yours.
Warranty terms cannot remove SOGA rights.
- 04-18-2007, 12:08 PM #26LoftyGuest
Re: O2 Complaints
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"Dave Mayall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> [email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
>>> Twenty eight days to repair
>>
>> This is an upper estimate, it will almost certainly come back sooner
>> than that.
>>
>>> no phones available for her to use whilst it is under repair.
>>
>> O2 are not obliged to provide one.
>
> They are obliged under SOGA to replace if a repair cannot be achieved
> without undue inconvenience to the purchaser.
Sorry but that's not correct. You cannot just take parts of law out of the
context in which they are written.
The part of the Act you quote above is from section 48B which ONLY applies
if the conditions of section 48A are met, and those conditions state that
the goods must "not conform to the contract of sale at the time of
delivery". (Sn 48A 1b)
Clearly in this case the goods DID conform at the time of delivery - the
phone worked for 8 months, so section 48B cannot be applied as you suggest.
In fact your quote comes from the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers
Regulations 2002 which enhance the SOGA 1979
You can make claims under other parts of the Act, which state that If you
discover a fault in the first few months you are entitled to "reject the
goods and demand a refund from the retailer. After that period, you can ask
for a range of remedies including repair, replacement and a refund of part
of the price".
In the first six months, you do not have to prove the goods were faulty when
they were supplied, as this will be presumed by a court.
However, after 6 months, to make a claim under the Act, you DO have to prove
that the goods were faulty WHEN THEY WERE SUPPLIED..
I think that might be rather tricky when a mobile phone has been subjected
to daily use for an 8 month period before it failed.
So the only remedy left after 8 months is via the manufacturer's warranty
(which is voluntary and is in addition to your rights under the SOGA and
SSoGCR 2002), and I reckon a manufacturer's offer of a free of charge
repair, taking 28 days, without temporary replacement, would be deemed
'reasonable' by any court when an item has been used for 8 months as this is
beyond what the law requires.
Lofty
- 04-18-2007, 02:35 PM #27JohnGuest
Re: O2 Complaints
Your right O2 are shocking for customer service.
A couple of years ago I tested all the phone networks to see which
were the best customer service wise before I signed to a new contract
and got a new phone.
I tested them all by sending an email to all of them asking a bunch of
questions etc.
Vodafone came out on top by a long shot for me. They replied within 24
hours and it was a very thorough reply written in plain english that I
could understand. If I remember correctly Virgin were also pretty
good Customer Service wise as well as Fresh.
The rest were lagging behind. The response I got from O2 was actually
pretty quick and full of information so I had to score them highly for
my experience back then, however what they put in the response was not
too coherent and understandable if I remember rightly I didn't have a
clue what they were going on about. It was like they were answering a
different question to the one I asked, and I just didn't understand
the english in their response whatsoever.
I know of quite a lot of friends who have had very bad experience with
O2 and T-Mobile. I have only heard the odd bad experience with
Vodafone, but overwhelmingly good opinions of them. If you check back
through the posts made to this group you'll see it is littered with
posts from people seriously criticising O2.
I've been with Voda for about 16 months now of an 18 month contract.
Was previously with T-Mobile. I'm extremely happy with them it has
been plain sailing. I think I have only ever had to contact them twice
since I signed up with them. I sent them an email to which they
replied within hours. And another time I called them, got through to
someone straight away and he was extremely helpful.
Vodafone might not be the cheapest but I don't mind paying more as far
as they are concerned. The service is top notch imho, I don't think
I'll ever change from them now though it did take me a while to sign
up with them, I refused to do it until they ceased sponsoring Man Utd.
I think that O2 still probably are the second best behind Vodafone,
however Voda are way out in front of everyone else, so being second
best as a mobile network provider isn't anything to celebrate.
I believe I may have posted the results of my test in this group about
one and a half years ago towards the end of 2005.
Cheers
John
- 04-18-2007, 02:55 PM #28tony sayerGuest
Re: O2 Complaints
>Vodafone might not be the cheapest but I don't mind paying more as far
>as they are concerned. The service is top notch imho, I don't think
>I'll ever change from them now though it did take me a while to sign
>up with them, I refused to do it until they ceased sponsoring Man Utd.
>I think that O2 still probably are the second best behind Vodafone,
>however Voda are way out in front of everyone else, so being second
>best as a mobile network provider isn't anything to celebrate.
>
>I believe I may have posted the results of my test in this group about
>one and a half years ago towards the end of 2005.
Try doing it again.. Voda have their moments;!.....
>
>Cheers
>
>John
>
>
--
Tony Sayer
- 04-22-2007, 05:13 AM #29NoNeedToKnowGuest
Re: O2 Complaints
On 17 Apr 2007, "BIGEYE" <[email protected]> wrote:
>It seems that customer services goes out in the box when you get a
>contract phone from O2. ...
While potentially of interest to u.t.mobile readers, I'm not sure what
the need to cross-post it was. Years ago, PGS complained that there
would be a lot of cross-posting when he was against the setting up of
u.t.mobile Fortunately it doesn't happen that often - there's usually
a clear distinction between what is and isn't needed in uk.telecom
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