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  1. #16
    tony sayer
    Guest

    Re: O2 Complaints

    In article <[email protected]>, Lofty
    <[email protected]> writes
    >
    >>> Anything else ?
    >>> A PC ? No, they are usually return to base warranties after 8 months, and
    >>> you certainly wouldn't get a replacement while it was being repaired. Nor
    >>> would your loss of data be covered.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Yes but your examples above are not to provide services but products, big
    >> difference.

    >
    >But that's all the O2 shop does - it provides a one off product for a one
    >off commission. After that, the shop earns nothing from a customer's monthly
    >payments. The contract is in place, the customer is tied to it and the
    >commission cannot be reclaimed from the shop/staff.
    >So to that extent the shop provides a product, then O2 take over and
    >run/manage the contract.
    >
    >> If your phone line goes faulty then BT offer free divert to mobile and can
    >> give some costs towards making calls

    >
    >Of course they do because they are providing the service. If you went into a
    >BT shop (do they still exist in the High Street ? They used to but I haven't
    >seen one for ages) they would not do any of that for you. I bet they would
    >refer you to the telephone fault reporting people - the customer service
    >people. They are the ones who have taken over the contract and are providing
    >the service. It is in THEIR interests to keep you as a customer.
    >
    >The individual shops (or more accurately the low paid - boosted by
    >commission) shop staff have no vested interest in keeping customers. They
    >just want the commission in their pay packet at the end of the month. A
    >customer with a faulty phone is not going to make them a penny for the time
    >they spend sorting the problem out.


    No but human nature being what it is they will remember their duff phone
    more then they will remember their one that worked OK.

    They will remember the shop that sorted out their problem..



    Question..

    how many times do you remember your car starting OK over say the last
    few years?.

    And how many times do you remember it when it didn't start or otherwise
    let you down?..

    The fist will be many times.. The second will, one hopes, be very much
    fewer!...

    But which one will you remember more?..
    >
    >I'm not saying that is how it should be, just how I have found things are.
    >That's why I talked about the independent retailer who generally has a much
    >more vested interest in keeping happy customers.


    Indeed
    >
    >I wonder what would have happened if the OP had phoned O2 customer telephone
    >support and kicked up a (polite) stink. He may have had more joy.
    >
    >Mind you, O2 are structured very strangely, their online stores and High
    >Street stores seem to be run as seperate entities, and if you buy a contract
    >in a shop, you have to speak to someone different to if you had bought the
    >contract online.
    >
    >> Stephen
    >>

    >
    >


    --
    Tony Sayer




    See More: O2 Complaints




  2. #17
    Lofty
    Guest

    Re: O2 Complaints

    > Question..
    >
    > how many times do you remember your car starting OK over say the last
    > few years?.
    >
    > And how many times do you remember it when it didn't start or otherwise
    > let you down?..
    >
    > The fist will be many times.. The second will, one hopes, be very much
    > fewer!...
    >
    > But which one will you remember more?..


    That's probably a bit of an unfair question. I have a 2 year old Freelander
    and it has started every morning, first time, for every day of those 2
    years, so I don't remember any times when it didn't start ;-)

    But that in itself tells a story, as Landrover had a particularly bad image
    with early model Freelanders, but have worked hard on them, and the later
    models are pretty reliable. Don't know what the new model is like, as I'm
    getting something completely different at the end of the month, but I am
    sure it is a well built car.

    So I agree with you. Shop staff SHOULD care about their customers - minimum
    wage or £30k a year, it should not impact the way they do their job.
    You are also right that the store Manager should motivate his/her staff to
    provide good service, as the Manager is the one who probably will be with
    the Company in 12-18 months time when that customer decides whether to go
    back to the shop for an upgrade or find another shop.

    Unfortunately, in reality, people in large organisations seem to have little
    loyalty to the brand and do not think long term.

    To an extent, that's to do with the way we select and promote Managers these
    days, but that's a whole new topic, and my talk of Freelanders has already
    pushed the envelope of what might be considered 'off topic'.

    Cheers
    Lofty





  3. #18
    Lofty
    Guest

    Re: O2 Complaints

    > Yes but your examples above are not to provide services but products, big
    > difference.
    >
    > If your phone line goes faulty then BT offer free divert to mobile and can
    > give some costs towards making calls
    >
    > Stephen



    But if your home handset fails, and BT are still providing a working line,
    they won't do anything for you - even if you bought the phone from them and
    it was under warranty.

    They are still providing the phone line (the service bit), and the hardware
    side is dealt with as a separate issue under the various consumer laws, the
    terms of the equipment warranty and any extra benefits the company chooses
    to offer as goodwill gestures.

    (In fact I believe BT diverting calls to a mobile and contributing to calls
    is a goodwill gesture, as they are not - under their contract - obliged to
    provide you with 24/7 365 days a year phone line. Things break down, and
    their contract covers them for that. If you pay for a business line you get
    a faster guaranteed fix time and compensation if they fail to meet their
    stated times, but for standard residential lines you are actually entitled
    to very little. BT make the offer you describe outwith their contract terms,
    in order to promote good customer relations and to try and stop customers
    walking away in a very competitive market place).

    So I don't see the O2 case being much different - the service is still being
    provided.
    The shop in question did not offer a replacement handset as a goodwill
    gesture, but I doubt they are obliged to under the terms of an O2 contract.

    The staff's hands were probably tied in that respect. I doubt the shop
    carries a stock of 2nd hand phones to loan to customers when theirs are
    being repaired. And they are not about to dish out a brand new hand set and
    have it come back 'used' in a months time.

    And O2 were still providing the SERVICE (a working SIM card and a
    functioning line). The fact the customer could not make use of it because
    the hardware failed is then related to hardware warranty, not the service
    provided by O2.
    Therefore my examples are valid - in my opinion, and your example of BT is
    different - in your scenario, BT have failed to provide the ongoing service
    you are paying for.
    This is a hardware issue, not a service failure issue.

    Having said all that, it does sound like the staff in the shop could have
    been more helpful and sympathetic. But I doubt they had any facility to loan
    a phone. How many would they have to keep in a box under the counter ? 3 ?
    8? 10? 20?
    However many they had, when they have a bad week, there is always going to
    be the customer who comes in when the last one has been loaned out and there
    are none left.
    So I am a bit on their side on the 'no loan phone' issue.

    My local independent shop has a few spare phones in a box, but will give
    them out to their regular good customers and when they are gone they are
    gone.

    Lofty





  4. #19
    Jon
    Guest

    Re: Re: O2 Complaints

    [email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
    > Not quite. Orange will do a 14 day money back return policy if you
    > order over the phone under the distance selling act, but buy it from
    > the shop and that's it, it's yours.


    Sorry old fruit, but that is as wrong as you can be.
    --
    Regards
    Jon



  5. #20
    Jon
    Guest

    Re: O2 Complaints

    [email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
    > > O2 are not obliged to provide one.


    > Rubbish, She's got a contract with o2 to provide her with a service if they
    > take her phone and don't give her a replacement then they are not providing
    > the service as sold.


    The contract is to supply airtime to the SIM card. The handset is
    entirely separate from the airtime contract.

    > > And? Phones go wrong occasionally.

    >
    > o2 should then be covered by the manufacturer to get it replaced.


    Repaired or replaced. Read the warranty terms. And it's the
    manufacturers decision to repair or replace, not yours.

    --
    Regards
    Jon



  6. #21
    Lurch
    Guest

    Re: Re: Re: O2 Complaints

    On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:28:11 +0100, Jon <[email protected]>
    mused:

    >[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
    >> Not quite. Orange will do a 14 day money back return policy if you
    >> order over the phone under the distance selling act, but buy it from
    >> the shop and that's it, it's yours.

    >
    >Sorry old fruit, but that is as wrong as you can be.


    Care to tell me what is correct then. Thge above is exactly what
    Orange told me recently.
    --
    Regards,
    Stuart.



  7. #22
    Jon
    Guest

    Re: Re: Re: O2 Complaints

    [email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
    > On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:28:11 +0100, Jon <[email protected]>
    > mused:
    >
    > >[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
    > >> Not quite. Orange will do a 14 day money back return policy if you
    > >> order over the phone under the distance selling act, but buy it from
    > >> the shop and that's it, it's yours.

    > >
    > >Sorry old fruit, but that is as wrong as you can be.

    >
    > Care to tell me what is correct then. Thge above is exactly what
    > Orange told me recently.


    You have 14 days to return the phone without having to give a reason.
    Credit cannot be refunded but may be transferred to another Orange
    phone.

    If you upgraded your phone, you will have to re-upgrade to another
    phone, you cannot simply reverse your upgrade.
    --
    Regards
    Jon



  8. #23
    Dave Mayall
    Guest

    Re: O2 Complaints


    "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
    >> Twenty eight days to repair

    >
    > This is an upper estimate, it will almost certainly come back sooner
    > than that.
    >
    >> no phones available for her to use whilst it is under repair.

    >
    > O2 are not obliged to provide one.


    They are obliged under SOGA to replace if a repair cannot be achieved
    without undue inconvenience to the purchaser.





  9. #24
    Dave Mayall
    Guest

    Re: Re: Re: O2 Complaints


    "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
    >> On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:28:11 +0100, Jon <[email protected]>
    >> mused:
    >>
    >> >[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
    >> >> Not quite. Orange will do a 14 day money back return policy if you
    >> >> order over the phone under the distance selling act, but buy it from
    >> >> the shop and that's it, it's yours.
    >> >
    >> >Sorry old fruit, but that is as wrong as you can be.

    >>
    >> Care to tell me what is correct then. Thge above is exactly what
    >> Orange told me recently.

    >
    > You have 14 days to return the phone without having to give a reason.
    > Credit cannot be refunded but may be transferred to another Orange
    > phone.
    >
    > If you upgraded your phone, you will have to re-upgrade to another
    > phone, you cannot simply reverse your upgrade.


    Not true.





  10. #25
    Dave Mayall
    Guest

    Re: O2 Complaints

    "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    >> o2 should then be covered by the manufacturer to get it replaced.

    >
    > Repaired or replaced. Read the warranty terms. And it's the
    > manufacturers decision to repair or replace, not yours.


    Warranty terms cannot remove SOGA rights.





  11. #26
    Lofty
    Guest

    Re: O2 Complaints


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    "Dave Mayall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> [email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
    >>> Twenty eight days to repair

    >>
    >> This is an upper estimate, it will almost certainly come back sooner
    >> than that.
    >>
    >>> no phones available for her to use whilst it is under repair.

    >>
    >> O2 are not obliged to provide one.

    >
    > They are obliged under SOGA to replace if a repair cannot be achieved
    > without undue inconvenience to the purchaser.


    Sorry but that's not correct. You cannot just take parts of law out of the
    context in which they are written.

    The part of the Act you quote above is from section 48B which ONLY applies
    if the conditions of section 48A are met, and those conditions state that
    the goods must "not conform to the contract of sale at the time of
    delivery". (Sn 48A 1b)

    Clearly in this case the goods DID conform at the time of delivery - the
    phone worked for 8 months, so section 48B cannot be applied as you suggest.

    In fact your quote comes from the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers
    Regulations 2002 which enhance the SOGA 1979

    You can make claims under other parts of the Act, which state that If you
    discover a fault in the first few months you are entitled to "reject the
    goods and demand a refund from the retailer. After that period, you can ask
    for a range of remedies including repair, replacement and a refund of part
    of the price".

    In the first six months, you do not have to prove the goods were faulty when
    they were supplied, as this will be presumed by a court.
    However, after 6 months, to make a claim under the Act, you DO have to prove
    that the goods were faulty WHEN THEY WERE SUPPLIED..
    I think that might be rather tricky when a mobile phone has been subjected
    to daily use for an 8 month period before it failed.

    So the only remedy left after 8 months is via the manufacturer's warranty
    (which is voluntary and is in addition to your rights under the SOGA and
    SSoGCR 2002), and I reckon a manufacturer's offer of a free of charge
    repair, taking 28 days, without temporary replacement, would be deemed
    'reasonable' by any court when an item has been used for 8 months as this is
    beyond what the law requires.

    Lofty





  12. #27
    John
    Guest

    Re: O2 Complaints

    Your right O2 are shocking for customer service.

    A couple of years ago I tested all the phone networks to see which
    were the best customer service wise before I signed to a new contract
    and got a new phone.

    I tested them all by sending an email to all of them asking a bunch of
    questions etc.

    Vodafone came out on top by a long shot for me. They replied within 24
    hours and it was a very thorough reply written in plain english that I
    could understand. If I remember correctly Virgin were also pretty
    good Customer Service wise as well as Fresh.

    The rest were lagging behind. The response I got from O2 was actually
    pretty quick and full of information so I had to score them highly for
    my experience back then, however what they put in the response was not
    too coherent and understandable if I remember rightly I didn't have a
    clue what they were going on about. It was like they were answering a
    different question to the one I asked, and I just didn't understand
    the english in their response whatsoever.

    I know of quite a lot of friends who have had very bad experience with
    O2 and T-Mobile. I have only heard the odd bad experience with
    Vodafone, but overwhelmingly good opinions of them. If you check back
    through the posts made to this group you'll see it is littered with
    posts from people seriously criticising O2.

    I've been with Voda for about 16 months now of an 18 month contract.
    Was previously with T-Mobile. I'm extremely happy with them it has
    been plain sailing. I think I have only ever had to contact them twice
    since I signed up with them. I sent them an email to which they
    replied within hours. And another time I called them, got through to
    someone straight away and he was extremely helpful.

    Vodafone might not be the cheapest but I don't mind paying more as far
    as they are concerned. The service is top notch imho, I don't think
    I'll ever change from them now though it did take me a while to sign
    up with them, I refused to do it until they ceased sponsoring Man Utd.
    I think that O2 still probably are the second best behind Vodafone,
    however Voda are way out in front of everyone else, so being second
    best as a mobile network provider isn't anything to celebrate.

    I believe I may have posted the results of my test in this group about
    one and a half years ago towards the end of 2005.

    Cheers

    John





  13. #28
    tony sayer
    Guest

    Re: O2 Complaints

    >Vodafone might not be the cheapest but I don't mind paying more as far
    >as they are concerned. The service is top notch imho, I don't think
    >I'll ever change from them now though it did take me a while to sign
    >up with them, I refused to do it until they ceased sponsoring Man Utd.
    >I think that O2 still probably are the second best behind Vodafone,
    >however Voda are way out in front of everyone else, so being second
    >best as a mobile network provider isn't anything to celebrate.
    >
    >I believe I may have posted the results of my test in this group about
    >one and a half years ago towards the end of 2005.


    Try doing it again.. Voda have their moments;!.....
    >
    >Cheers
    >
    >John
    >
    >


    --
    Tony Sayer




  14. #29
    NoNeedToKnow
    Guest

    Re: O2 Complaints

    On 17 Apr 2007, "BIGEYE" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >It seems that customer services goes out in the box when you get a
    >contract phone from O2. ...


    While potentially of interest to u.t.mobile readers, I'm not sure what
    the need to cross-post it was. Years ago, PGS complained that there
    would be a lot of cross-posting when he was against the setting up of
    u.t.mobile Fortunately it doesn't happen that often - there's usually
    a clear distinction between what is and isn't needed in uk.telecom



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