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  1. #1
    Chris White
    Guest
    www.NO2ID.net

    More than a card - a new way of life

    The ID Card scheme is not just a harmless new bit of plastic in your wallet.
    It requires a massive and intrusive database that changes the nature of UK
    Citizenship and shifts the balance of power further away from the citizen to
    the State. With the National Identity Register (NIR) and ID Card, the
    Government will control your identity. It will decide who you are. Showing
    ID to officials will become an everyday part of British life. Although other
    Europeans are used to ID Cards the NIR is much more controlling than their
    ID Card systems and they have legal safeguards we do not. It will open your
    life to inspection by thousands of bureaucrats.

    Spiraling costs

    Even the Government admits the minimum cost is E5.8 billion - that's six
    domes! That estimate has doubled since 2004. And it only counts Home Office
    costs and not the penalties for errors, or the cost of policing many new
    offences. The Government is reducing the Civil Service but is building a
    whole new Identity Service. Taxpayers and businesses will have to pay yet
    more for special scanners in doctors' surgeries, benefit offices, banks and
    even hotels.

    The biggest ever White Elephant

    Big Government computer systems are a catalogue of disaster. Yet this is the
    biggest and most complicated government computer scheme anywhere, ever. Even
    if it works perfectly, the ID scheme cannot meet the problems it is supposed
    to solve. The Government admits that the NIR will not stop terrorism. Almost
    all benefit fraud is lying about circumstances, not who
    you are. A single master document makes identity theft easier, and more
    worthwhile, not harder. Criminals don't play by the bureaucratic rules. ID
    Cards won't cut crime.

    A tool for bullies

    With a wink to racism, the Government says ID will stop illegal
    immigration. But it doesn't in the rest of Europe. Asians and black people
    often feel they are unfairly stopped and searched by police already. ID will
    give more reasons to "check" people. What's more, demands to prove you are
    British will creep into more and more public and private services, with the
    system as an excuse. How does a divided society make you safer?

    And when it goes wrong? -- You, the suspect

    You are about to be fingerprinted, eye-scanned and tagged like a criminal.
    Any errors will be your responsibility. The Home Office will have the final
    say. Even now about 100 people a month (out of a few thousand checked) are
    wrongly marked as criminals by the Criminal Records Bureau. The NIR could
    mean several checks a day for everybody. What happens to your life when the
    scanner fails or there's a mistake?

    Say NO to ID

    The ID scheme is expensive and socially destructive. Either it will help
    make Britain a police-state, or it will be a bigger white elephant than the
    poll tax. Help us stop it.

    This briefing summarises N02ID's key concerns with the Governments
    proposals. More detailed discussion and research references are available on
    request. You can find more information at www.no2id.net


    The government ID scheme: what you need to know

    1. Not just a card. The card is the least of it...

    - The proposed identity management system has multiple layers: The NIR
    (National Identification Register) - individual checking and numbering of
    the population - marking many personal details as "registrable facts' to be
    disclosed and constantly updated - collection and checking of biometrics
    (e.g. fingerprints) - the card itself - a widespread scanner network and
    secure (one hopes) infrastructure connecting it to the central database -
    provision for use across the private and public sectors - datasharing
    between organisations on an unprecedented scale.

    - Massive accumulation of personal data: 50 categories of "registrable
    fact''' are set out in the Act, though they could be added to. Effectively
    an index to all other official and quasi-official records, through
    cross-references and an audit trail of all checks on the Register, the NIR
    would be the key to a total life history of every individual, to be retained
    even after death.

    - Lifelong surveillance and the meta-database: Every registered individual
    will be under an obligation to notify any change in registrable facts. It is
    a clear aim of the system to require identity verification for many more
    civil transactions, the occasions to be stored in the audit trail.
    Information verified and indexed by numbers from the NIR would be easily
    cross-referenced in any database or set of databases The "rneta-database" of
    all the thousands of databases cross-referenced is much more powerful and
    much less secure than the NIR itself

    - Overseas ID cards are not comparable: Many western countries that have ID
    cards do not have a shared register. Mostly ID cards have been limited in
    use, with strong legal privacy protections. In Germany centralisation is
    forbidden for historical reasons. and when cards are replaced, the records
    are not finked. Belgium has made use of modern encryption methods and local
    storage to protect privacy and prevent data-sharing, an approach opposite to
    the Home Office's. The UK scheme is closest to those of some Middle Eastern
    countries and of the People's Republic of China-though the latter has
    largely given up on biometrics.

    2. The Government has not made a case. There is no evidence the system will
    produce the stated benefits. Less liberty does not imply greater security.

    - Terrorism: ID does not establish intention. Competent criminals and
    terrorists will be able to subvert the identity system. Random outrages by
    individuals can't be stopped. Ministers agree that ID cards will not prevent
    atrocities. A blank assertion that the department would find it helpful is
    not an argument that would be entertained for fundamental change in any
    other sphere of government but national security. Where is the evidence?
    Research suggests there is no link between the use of identity cards and the
    prevalence of terrorism and in no instance has the presence of an identity
    card system been shown a significant deterrent to terrorist activity.
    Experts attest that ID unjustifiably presumed secure actually diminishes
    security.'

    - Illegal immigration and working: People will still enter Britain using
    foreign documents-genuine or forged-and ID cards offer no more deterrent to
    people smugglers than passports and visas. Employers already face
    substantial penalties for failing to obtain proof of entitlement to work,
    yet there are only a handful of prosecutions a year. Benefit fraud and abuse
    of public services: Identity is "only a tiny part of the problem in the
    benefit system."' Figures for claims under false identity are estimated at
    £50 million (2.5%) of an (estimated) £2 billion per year in fraudulent
    claims.

    - `Identity fraud': Both Australia and the USA have far worse problems of
    identity theft than Britain, precisely because of general reliance on a
    single reference source. Costs usually cited for of identityrelated crime
    here include much fraud not susceptible to an ID system. So-called "secure",
    trusted, ID is more useful to the fraudster. The Home Office has not
    explained how it will stop identity thieves registering as other people.
    Coherent collection of all sensitive personal data by govemment, and its
    easy transmission between departments, will create vast new opportunities
    for data-theft.

    3. Overcomplicated, unproven technology

    - Computer system: IT providers find that identity systems work best when
    limited in design. The Home Office scheme combines untested technologies on
    an unparalleled scale. Its many inchoate purposes create innumerable points
    for failure. The government record with computer projects is poor, and the
    ID system is likely to end up a broken mess.

    - Biometrics: Not all biometrics will work for all people. Plenty are
    missing digits, or eyes, or have physical conditions that render one or more
    biometrics unstable or hard to read. All systems have error. Deployment on a
    vast scale, with variably trained operators and variably maintained and
    calibrated equipment, will produce vast numbers of mismatches. leading to
    potentially gross inconvenience to millions.

    4. Identity Cards will cost money that could be better spent

    - No ceiling: The Government has not ventured figures for the cost to the
    country as whole of the identity management scheme. That makes evaluation
    difficult. Civil Service IT experience suggests current projections are
    likely to be seriously underestimated. Home Office figures are for internal
    costs and have risen sharply where they are not utterly obscure. Industry
    estimates suggest that public and private sector compliance costs could
    easily be double whatever is spent centrally.

    - Opportunity costs: The Government has not even tried to show that national
    ID management will be more cost-effective than less spectacular alternative,
    targeted. solutions to the same problems (whether tried and tested or novel)
    We are to trust to luck that it is.

    - Taxpayer pain: Even at current Home Office estimates, the additional tax
    burden of setting up the scheme will be of the order of £200 per person. The
    direct cost to individuals (of a combined passport ;,and iD card package) is
    quoted as £.93. The impact on other departmental and local authority budgets
    is unknown. The scope and impact of arbitrary penalties would make speed
    cameras trivial by comparison.

    5. Unchecked executive powers.

    - Broad delegated power: The Home Office seeks wide discretion over the
    future shape of the scheme. There are more than 30 types of regulatory power
    for future Secretaries of State would change the functions and content of
    the system ad lib. The scope, application and possible extension are
    extra-parliamentary decisions, even if nominally subject to approval.

    - Presumption of accuracy: Data entered onto the National Identity Register
    (NIR) is arbitrarily presumed to be accurate, and the Home Secretary is the
    judge of whether information provided to him is a, :curate. Meanwhile, the
    Home Office gets the power to enter information without informing the
    individual. But there's no duty to ensure that such data is accurate, or
    criterion of accuracy. Personal identity is implicitly made wholly subject
    to state control.

    - Compulsion by stealth: Even during the so-called `voluntary' phase, the
    Home Secretary can add any person to the Register without their consent, and
    categories of individuals might be compelled selectively to register using
    powers under any future legislation. Anyone newly applying for a passport or
    other "designated document", or renewing an existing one, will automatically
    have to be interviewed and submit all required details. This is less a
    "phased" introduction than a clandestine one. There is to be no choice. And
    the minimum of notice to the public about the change in the handling of
    their registrable information.

    - Limited oversight: As proposed, the National Identity Scheme Commissioner
    would have very limited powers and is excluded from considering a number of
    key issues. He does not even report directly to Parliament. The reliance on
    administrative penalties means severe punishments may be inflicted without
    judicial process. The onus is on the individual to seek relief from the
    courts, at a civil standard of proof. Those who most require the protection
    of a fair trial are the least likely to be able to resort to legal action.

    - Individuals managed by executive order: Without reference to the courts or
    any appeals process, the Home Secretary may cancel or require surrender of
    an identity card, without a right of appeal, at any time. Given that the
    object of the scheme is that an ID card will be eventually required to
    exercise any ordinary civil function, this amounts to granting the Home
    Secretary the power of civic life and death.

    6. The National Identity Register creates specific new threats to
    individuals

    - Discrimination-no guarantees: There have been vapid "assurances" made to
    some minority groups". That underlines the potential for threat. The system
    offers a ready-made police-state tool for a future government less
    trustworthy than the current one. A Home Secretary could create
    classifications of individuals to be registered as he sees fit, introdcuing
    onerous duties backed by severe penalties for fractions of the population.
    Religious or ethnic affiliation, for example, could be added to the Register
    by regulation-or be inferred by cross-referencing other information using a
    National Identity Register Number or associated data.

    - `Papers, please': ID cards in practice would provide a pretext for those
    in authority-public or private-to question individuals who stand out for
    reasons of personal appearance or demeanour. This is likely to exacerbate
    divisions in society. The Chairman of the Bar Council has asked, "is there
    not a great risk that those who feel at the margins of society - the
    somewhat disaffected - will be driven into the arms of extremists?

    - Third party abuse: The requirement that all those registered notify all
    changes in details risks creating the means of tracking and persecution
    through improper use of the database. A variety of persons have good reason
    to conceal their identity and whereabouts, for example: those fleeing
    domestic abuse; victims of "honour" crimes; witnesses in criminal cases;
    those at risk of kidnapping; undercover investigators; refugees from
    oppressive regimes overseas; those pursued by the press; those who may be
    terrorist targets. The seizure of ID cards (like benefit-books and passports
    now) will become a means for extortion by gangsters.

    - Lost identity, becoming an un-person: By making ordinary life dependent on
    the reliability of a complex administrative system, the scheme makes myriad
    small errors potentially catastrophic. There's no hint from the government
    how it will deal with inevitably large numbers of mis-identifications and
    errors, or deliberate attacks on or corruption of what would become a
    critical piece of national infrastructure. A failure in any part of the
    system at a check might deny a person access to his or her rights or
    property or to public services, with no immediate solution or
    redress-"license to live" withdrawn.

    Visit www.no2id.net today!









    See More: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenship in Britain




  2. #2
    Martin
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenship in Britain


    "Chris White" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > www.NO2ID.net


    WTF is this to do with telecom/broadband?






  3. #3
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenship in Britain



    "Chris White" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    : : www.NO2ID.net
    : :
    : : More than a card - a new way of life

    While I agree entirely, it has nothing to do with VoIP so has no place
    here. There are newsgroups specifically for this kind of debate.

    Ivor




  4. #4
    Michael Swift
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenship in Britain

    In article <[email protected]>, Ivor Jones
    <[email protected]> writes
    >: : More than a card - a new way of life
    >
    >While I agree entirely, it has nothing to do with VoIP so has no place
    >here. There are newsgroups specifically for this kind of debate.


    But the way things are going you'll soon need your ID card number to log
    on to the www which of course will only contain government approved
    information, and I'm only half joking.

    Mike

    --
    Michael Swift We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners.
    Kirkheaton We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians.
    Yorkshire Halvard Lange



  5. #5
    David Kennedy
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenshipin Britain

    On 1/2/08 15:17, Michael Swift wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>, Ivor Jones
    > <[email protected]> writes
    >> : : More than a card - a new way of life
    >>
    >> While I agree entirely, it has nothing to do with VoIP so has no place
    >> here. There are newsgroups specifically for this kind of debate.

    >
    > But the way things are going you'll soon need your ID card number to log
    > on to the www which of course will only contain government approved
    > information, and I'm only half joking.
    >
    > Mike
    >


    I was told [quite seriously] last weekend that the Government are
    selling the Internet to Micro$oft.

    --
    David Kennedy

    http://www.anindianinexile.com



  6. #6
    Simon
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenshipin Britain

    Michael Swift wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>, Ivor Jones
    > <[email protected]> writes
    >> : : More than a card - a new way of life
    >>
    >> While I agree entirely, it has nothing to do with VoIP so has no place
    >> here. There are newsgroups specifically for this kind of debate.

    >
    > But the way things are going you'll soon need your ID card number to log
    > on to the www which of course will only contain government approved
    > information, and I'm only half joking.
    >
    > Mike
    >


    Thats so 1984



  7. #7
    Simon
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenshipin Britain

    David Kennedy wrote:
    > On 1/2/08 15:17, Michael Swift wrote:
    >> In article <[email protected]>, Ivor Jones
    >> <[email protected]> writes
    >>> : : More than a card - a new way of life
    >>>
    >>> While I agree entirely, it has nothing to do with VoIP so has no
    >>> place here. There are newsgroups specifically for this kind of debate.

    >>
    >> But the way things are going you'll soon need your ID card number to log
    >> on to the www which of course will only contain government approved
    >> information, and I'm only half joking.
    >>
    >> Mike
    >>

    >
    > I was told [quite seriously] last weekend that the Government are
    > selling the Internet to Micro$oft.
    >

    Are they going to send it on a couple of DVD's



  8. #8
    Simon
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenshipin Britain

    Ivor Jones wrote:
    >
    >
    > "Chris White" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > : : www.NO2ID.net
    > : :
    > : : More than a card - a new way of life
    >
    > While I agree entirely, it has nothing to do with VoIP so has no place
    > here. There are newsgroups specifically for this kind of debate.
    >
    > Ivor
    >


    That was not a discussion, its a rant and mostly inaccurate at that.



  9. #9

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenship in Britain


    > But the way things are going you'll soon need your ID card number to log
    > on to the www which of course will only contain government approved
    > information, and I'm only half joking.


    As in China. Next will come controls over use of the WWW, they will
    justify it as a measure to catch paedophiles, and combat terrorism,
    stage two will be that ISP's will have to keep extensive records of
    all internet activity, in ever greater detail, and for ever longer periods.
    All P2P activity will be monitored, it's seen as a means of
    illegally distributing copyright material, then VPN will come under
    scrutiny, as will encryption. If you encrypt, then by definition
    you are trying to hide something.
    It's very relevant to broadband and VoIP groups.



  10. #10
    Tony
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenship in Britain

    "Simon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > That was not a discussion, its a rant and mostly inaccurate at that.


    Pity that the OP probably won't read this thread. I would like to tell him
    that, as a NO2ID supporter, I am really annnoyed as his spam because I think
    it will only turn people off.

    --
    Tony W
    My e-mail address has no hyphen
    - but please don't use it, reply to the group.





  11. #11
    Steve Terry
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenship in Britain


    "David Kennedy"
    <davidkennedy@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid>
    wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > On 1/2/08 15:17, Michael Swift wrote:
    >> In article <[email protected]>, Ivor Jones
    >> <[email protected]> writes
    >>> : : More than a card - a new way of life
    >>>
    >>> While I agree entirely, it has nothing to do with VoIP so has no place
    >>> here. There are newsgroups specifically for this kind of debate.

    >>
    >> But the way things are going you'll soon need your ID card number to log
    >> on to the www which of course will only contain government approved
    >> information, and I'm only half joking.
    >> Mike

    >
    > I was told [quite seriously] last weekend that the Government are selling
    > the Internet to Micro$oft.
    > David Kennedy
    >

    Why not, Maggi Thatch sold off the TSB bank, and didn't own that either

    Steve Terry






  12. #12
    Steve Terry
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenship in Britain

    "Simon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > David Kennedy wrote:
    >> On 1/2/08 15:17, Michael Swift wrote:
    >>> In article <[email protected]>, Ivor Jones
    >>> <[email protected]> writes

    <snip>
    >> I was told [quite seriously] last weekend that the Government are selling
    >> the Internet to Micro$oft.
    >>

    > Are they going to send it on a couple of DVD's
    >

    Don't be daft, they would never get there

    Steve Terry





  13. #13
    Simon
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenshipin Britain

    Steve Terry wrote:
    > "Simon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> David Kennedy wrote:
    >>> On 1/2/08 15:17, Michael Swift wrote:
    >>>> In article <[email protected]>, Ivor Jones
    >>>> <[email protected]> writes

    > <snip>
    >>> I was told [quite seriously] last weekend that the Government are selling
    >>> the Internet to Micro$oft.
    >>>

    >> Are they going to send it on a couple of DVD's
    >>

    > Don't be daft, they would never get there
    >
    > Steve Terry
    >
    >

    Depends on who they use for a courier service!



  14. #14
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenship in Britain



    "Steve Terry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    : : "Simon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    : : news:[email protected]...
    : : : David Kennedy wrote:
    : : : : On 1/2/08 15:17, Michael Swift wrote:
    : : : : : In article <[email protected]>,
    : : : : : Ivor Jones <[email protected]> writes
    : : <snip>
    : : : : I was told [quite seriously] last weekend that the
    : : : : Government are selling the Internet to Micro$oft.
    : : : :
    : : : Are they going to send it on a couple of DVD's
    : : :
    : : Don't be daft, they would never get there

    They'd be stolen out of the back of somebody's car in Birmingham.

    Ivor




  15. #15
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: NO2ID - It's more than a card, it changes the nature of citizenship in Britain



    "Steve Terry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    : : "David Kennedy"
    : :
    <davidkennedy@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid>
    : : wrote in message
    : : news:[email protected]...

    [snip]
    :
    : : : I was told [quite seriously] last weekend that the
    : : : Government are selling the Internet to Micro$oft.
    : :
    : : Why not, Maggi Thatch sold off the TSB bank, and didn't
    : : own that either

    Trustee Savings Bank Bank... Never could work that one out.

    Ivor




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