Do not buy gadgets having proprietary batteries

source: http://www.popsci.com/gear-amp-gadge...8-10/double-ok

I bet the ’80s was a good decade for Energizer, Duracell and their
ilk. I mean, it was a good decade for sharkskin, too, but the ’80s had
to be the absolute peak for these battery makers. Suddenly, it seemed
like everything required portable juice: that new-fangled wireless TV
remote, the Walkman, my futuristic calculator watch and, of course,
all of those awesomely high-tech electronic toys like Simon (which
actually had its launch party at Studio 54!).

Well, Energizer’s mascot might not have changed since then, but times
sure have. Today, I can’t even count the number of portable electronic
gadgets I own—each of them requiring its own on-the-go power source.
And yet, I probably buy fewer than 10 batteries per year. Even then
I’m only buying them for my two TV remotes, smoke alarm and flashlight—
things that haven’t changed much since the ’80s.

Nowadays, proprietary batteries are forced upon us by the
manufacturers of the very devices we need them for. What’s worse,
these batteries are in many cases impossible to replace without
performing major surgery on your gadget’s delicate innards (ahem,
Apple). While this is quite the cozy and convenient situation for
manufacturers, I can’t help but feel screwed. And I don’t like feeling
screwed…

Where’s the beef? C’mon, that should be obvious. Anyone who’s ever
traveled from Point A to B knows the misery of lugging around the
cable salad of different proprietary chargers for a laptop, cell
phone, digital camera, iPod and portable gaming unit. I roll up and
pack each and every one of these chargers with me on even the briefest
of excursions; I’m sure you do too. We’ve all been there. We’ve all
had a gadget die on us and not had its charger on hand. For me, it
wasn’t as tragic a scenario as having my digital camera conk out on
vacation, but it was painful nonetheless. I recently traveled to
Europe and, in the rush to get to the airport, neglected to pack my
iPod charger. So, while I rocked all the way to Heathrow, the flight
back was far less enjoyable. What were my options, after all? I could
have gone without, or I could have purchased a new charger. For iPod
owners, that’s now a two-part kick in gut: the USB cable, plus the USB-
to-power-outlet thingamajig. That’s a £40 expenditure at the apple.com/
uk store, so it would have cost me about $80. No thanks.

Some time in the early part of this decade I owned a digital camera by
Olympus that accepted standard batteries. If the battery ran out on me
during a trip, I could buy a new one at any drug store and be on my
way. That’s a right I’d like back. If my iPod dies, I shouldn’t have
to wait until I get home or near a power outlet to use it again. If my
cell phone sputters out while traveling, I shouldn’t be forced to
locate a Best Buy or Verizon store in order to shell out a new
charger. Why have we accepted this completely unnecessary
inconvenience as a fact of life?

I saw an ad recently for Energizer’s new Ultimate Lithium batteries,
which are designed specifically for digital devices. Duracell has
something similar called PowerPix, which is a line geared for cameras.
Panasonic makes the gadget-friendly EVOLTA. Problem solved, right?
Wrong. I can’t find more than a handful of products that actually use
these batteries. Energizer’s site lists a few Nikon cameras, a
Motorola Bluetooth headset, a GPS unit from Bushnell and some LEGO
robots. Duracell’s site doesn’t bother listing anything at all, and
Panasonic’s EVOLTA site only goes so far as to show a remote-
controlled car and a no-name digital camera, both of which I suspect
are stock photography. Typing a hundred variations of “AA batteries
portable electronics” into Google is a completely fruitless endeavor.

It’s too bad these battery makers have close to no support from the
electronics industry—but it’s understandable why. Electronics
manufacturers make boatloads forcing us to buy their chargers and
replacement batteries, which they have a convenient monopoly on. Plus,
proprietary batteries are essentially custom made for the gadgets
they’re powering, which is why our electronic toys have continued to
shrink in size over the years. Think about how bloated your iPhone
would be if it had to accommodate a chamber for two AA bullets.
Energizer and Duracell could easily make a universal slim-profile
battery and make it available everywhere. But, what incentive would
there be for gadget manufacturers to make their products work with it?

Sadly, our power liberation won’t come without standardization, and
standardization won’t come without legislation. Without laws forcing
manufacturers to make their products compatible with a standard
battery size, this notion of mine will remain forever a pipe dream. So
here it is: I’m calling for a new battery size—let’s call it “G” for
Grouse. It’s super slim, it’s available in both rechargeable and
disposable flavors, it’s available anywhere you can buy toilet paper
and it’s compatible with all digital cameras, cell phones, handheld
media players and portable game consoles. And because it’s
manufactured by different vendors, it’s affordable.

Am I really talking about battery legislation here? I am indeed, and
doing my best not to come off as old-fartish as Andy Rooney while
doing so. What do you think – do you agree with me, or did I just
waste 15 minutes of your life on an absurdly inane issue? Let me hear
it!

---

› See More: Do not buy gadgets having proprietary batteries

In news:d6951e71-e3cb-4d8e-8a70-65653e34b3e4@q35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
simple.language typed on Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:21:33 -0700 (PDT):
> source:
> http://www.popsci.com/gear-amp-gadge...8-10/double-ok
>
> I bet the ’80s was a good decade for Energizer, Duracell and their
> ilk. I mean, it was a good decade for sharkskin, too, but the ’80s had
> to be the absolute peak for these battery makers. Suddenly, it seemed
> like everything required portable juice: that new-fangled wireless TV
> remote, the Walkman, my futuristic calculator watch and, of course,
> all of those awesomely high-tech electronic toys like Simon (which
> actually had its launch party at Studio 54!).
>
> Well, Energizer’s mascot might not have changed since then, but times
> sure have. Today, I can’t even count the number of portable electronic
> gadgets I own—each of them requiring its own on-the-go power source.
> And yet, I probably buy fewer than 10 batteries per year. Even then
> I’m only buying them for my two TV remotes, smoke alarm and
> flashlight— things that haven’t changed much since the ’80s.
>
> Nowadays, proprietary batteries are forced upon us by the
> manufacturers of the very devices we need them for. What’s worse,
> these batteries are in many cases impossible to replace without
> performing major surgery on your gadget’s delicate innards (ahem,
> Apple). While this is quite the cozy and convenient situation for
> manufacturers, I can’t help but feel screwed. And I don’t like feeling
> screwed…
>
> Where’s the beef? C’mon, that should be obvious. Anyone who’s ever
> traveled from Point A to B knows the misery of lugging around the
> cable salad of different proprietary chargers for a laptop, cell
> phone, digital camera, iPod and portable gaming unit. I roll up and
> pack each and every one of these chargers with me on even the briefest
> of excursions; I’m sure you do too. We’ve all been there. We’ve all
> had a gadget die on us and not had its charger on hand. For me, it
> wasn’t as tragic a scenario as having my digital camera conk out on
> vacation, but it was painful nonetheless. I recently traveled to
> Europe and, in the rush to get to the airport, neglected to pack my
> iPod charger. So, while I rocked all the way to Heathrow, the flight
> back was far less enjoyable. What were my options, after all? I could
> have gone without, or I could have purchased a new charger. For iPod
> owners, that’s now a two-part kick in gut: the USB cable, plus the
> USB- to-power-outlet thingamajig. That’s a £40 expenditure at the
> apple.com/ uk store, so it would have cost me about $80. No thanks.
>
> Some time in the early part of this decade I owned a digital camera by
> Olympus that accepted standard batteries. If the battery ran out on me
> during a trip, I could buy a new one at any drug store and be on my
> way. That’s a right I’d like back. If my iPod dies, I shouldn’t have
> to wait until I get home or near a power outlet to use it again. If my
> cell phone sputters out while traveling, I shouldn’t be forced to
> locate a Best Buy or Verizon store in order to shell out a new
> charger. Why have we accepted this completely unnecessary
> inconvenience as a fact of life?
>
> I saw an ad recently for Energizer’s new Ultimate Lithium batteries,
> which are designed specifically for digital devices. Duracell has
> something similar called PowerPix, which is a line geared for cameras.
> Panasonic makes the gadget-friendly EVOLTA. Problem solved, right?
> Wrong. I can’t find more than a handful of products that actually use
> these batteries. Energizer’s site lists a few Nikon cameras, a
> Motorola Bluetooth headset, a GPS unit from Bushnell and some LEGO
> robots. Duracell’s site doesn’t bother listing anything at all, and
> Panasonic’s EVOLTA site only goes so far as to show a remote-
> controlled car and a no-name digital camera, both of which I suspect
> are stock photography. Typing a hundred variations of “AA batteries
> portable electronics” into Google is a completely fruitless endeavor.
>
> It’s too bad these battery makers have close to no support from the
> electronics industry—but it’s understandable why. Electronics
> manufacturers make boatloads forcing us to buy their chargers and
> replacement batteries, which they have a convenient monopoly on. Plus,
> proprietary batteries are essentially custom made for the gadgets
> they’re powering, which is why our electronic toys have continued to
> shrink in size over the years. Think about how bloated your iPhone
> would be if it had to accommodate a chamber for two AA bullets.
> Energizer and Duracell could easily make a universal slim-profile
> battery and make it available everywhere. But, what incentive would
> there be for gadget manufacturers to make their products work with it?
>
> Sadly, our power liberation won’t come without standardization, and
> standardization won’t come without legislation. Without laws forcing
> manufacturers to make their products compatible with a standard
> battery size, this notion of mine will remain forever a pipe dream. So
> here it is: I’m calling for a new battery size—let’s call it “G” for
> Grouse. It’s super slim, it’s available in both rechargeable and
> disposable flavors, it’s available anywhere you can buy toilet paper
> and it’s compatible with all digital cameras, cell phones, handheld
> media players and portable game consoles. And because it’s
> manufactured by different vendors, it’s affordable.
>
> Am I really talking about battery legislation here? I am indeed, and
> doing my best not to come off as old-fartish as Andy Rooney while
> doing so. What do you think – do you agree with me, or did I just
> waste 15 minutes of your life on an absurdly inane issue? Let me hear
> it!

Why buy stuff with proprietary batteries if you don't like them? You only
encourage them when you do so. I just don't buy them since somebody else is
making them with off of the shelf regular batteries. And they do so because
they know people like me will buy them because of this.

Take for example of my MP3 player. Many of them use proprietary batteries,
but some do not. That is why I fell in love with my four iRiver T10 players.
They run 45 plus hours on a single AA battery. It has a great FM radio to
boot and can record from FM and sports a timer as well. So set it to record
something and then do what you need to do and come back and everything is
recorded (I hear tell European models this feature is disabled for legal
reasons). Plays files from many different formats too. It has everything I
need and want to do. All from one AA battery to boot.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:50:26 -0400, U*U earned a 'D' by writing:

>> Am I really talking about battery legislation here? I am indeed, and
>> doing my best not to come off as old-fartish as Andy Rooney while
>> doing so. What do you think – do you agree with me, or did I just
>> waste 15 minutes of your life on an absurdly inane issue? Let me hear
>> it!
>
> Even Andy Rooney is laughing at you!!! I am to trade of my slim LithION
> cellphone battery for what "AA" batteries, oh wait better be "D cells" to
> get decent battery life.

Nice theory, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Years ago I had a small, slim Nokia phone that used a NiMH battery
pack that when opened revealed essentially three AAA NiMH cells.
Battery talk and standby time was good (it only needed to be
recharged weekly), and it supported both digital and analog
networks. Cell phones aren't used like cameras, so despite the NiMH
cells of that time having fairly high self-discharge rates, it had
no measurable negative impact. Today's Eneloop AAA cells have
higher capacity as well as lower self-discharge rates than Li-Ion
batteries. With such small battery requirements, Li-Ion's lighter
weight hardly matters, unless you're dealing with sub-miniature
electronic devices intended to attach to, or dangle from ears.

Li-Ion batteries have some nice properties, but low cost isn't
often the case. The last several cell phones I've used had
replacement batteries priced so high that I've never bought any of
them. Instead, I've wastefully purchased complete duplicate cell
phones, including chargers, manuals and new batteries for anywhere
from 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of just the proprietary battery.

The Panasonic portable phone I bought earlier this year has
excellent battery life, and I can use it for hours with the battery
indicator never showing that the capacity has been reduced by more
than one segment. The batteries will probably last many years but
when they're eventually replaced I won't have to worry about whether
any expensive, proprietary, batteries can still be found, since it
uses just two 630mAH NiMH AAA cells. Today's AAA NiMH cells are
very inexpensive (just a couple of dollars) and have capacities at
least up to 1,000mAH. Even low self-discharge AAA Eneloops have
significantly higher capacity, 800 mAH, but even that's overkill
since today's phones (and cameras too) use so much less power than
they used to.

I noticed that you removed sci.chem.electrochem.battery and some
other newsgroups from the OP's original list, substituting for them
alt.usenet.kooks. Would that happen to be your home base?

In news[email protected],
ASAAR typed on Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:41:32 -0400:
[...]
> The Panasonic portable phone I bought earlier this year has
> excellent battery life, and I can use it for hours with the battery
> indicator never showing that the capacity has been reduced by more
> than one segment. The batteries will probably last many years but
> when they're eventually replaced I won't have to worry about whether
> any expensive, proprietary, batteries can still be found, since it
> uses just two 630mAH NiMH AAA cells. Today's AAA NiMH cells are
> very inexpensive (just a couple of dollars) and have capacities at
> least up to 1,000mAH. Even low self-discharge AAA Eneloops have
> significantly higher capacity, 800 mAH, but even that's overkill
> since today's phones (and cameras too) use so much less power than
> they used to...

My VTech USB7200 uses two standard Ni-MH batteries. The OP doesn't have to
buy stuff with proprietary batteries if they don't want too.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2

>>
>> Am I really talking about battery legislation here? I am indeed, and
>> doing my best not to come off as old-fartish as Andy Rooney while
>> doing so. What do you think - do you agree with me, or did I just
>> waste 15 minutes of your life on an absurdly inane issue? Let me hear
>> it!
>
> Why buy stuff with proprietary batteries if you don't like them? You only
> encourage them when you do so. I just don't buy them since somebody else
> is making them with off of the shelf regular batteries. And they do so
> because they know people like me will buy them because of this.
>
> Take for example of my MP3 player. Many of them use proprietary batteries,
> but some do not. That is why I fell in love with my four iRiver T10
> players. They run 45 plus hours on a single AA battery. It has a great FM
> radio to boot and can record from FM and sports a timer as well. So set it
> to record something and then do what you need to do and come back and
> everything is recorded (I hear tell European models this feature is
> disabled for legal reasons). Plays files from many different formats too.
> It has everything I need and want to do. All from one AA battery to boot.
>
> --
> Bill
> Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2
>

What about all your laptops Bill, how many AAs do they take?

In news:[email protected],
Pete D typed on Sun, 26 Oct 2008 08:17:40 +1100:
>>> Am I really talking about battery legislation here? I am indeed, and
>>> doing my best not to come off as old-fartish as Andy Rooney while
>>> doing so. What do you think - do you agree with me, or did I just
>>> waste 15 minutes of your life on an absurdly inane issue? Let me
>>> hear it!
>>
>> Why buy stuff with proprietary batteries if you don't like them? You
>> only encourage them when you do so. I just don't buy them since
>> somebody else is making them with off of the shelf regular
>> batteries. And they do so because they know people like me will buy
>> them because of this. Take for example of my MP3 player. Many of them use
>> proprietary
>> batteries, but some do not. That is why I fell in love with my four
>> iRiver T10 players. They run 45 plus hours on a single AA battery.
>> It has a great FM radio to boot and can record from FM and sports a
>> timer as well. So set it to record something and then do what you
>> need to do and come back and everything is recorded (I hear tell
>> European models this feature is disabled for legal reasons). Plays
>> files from many different formats too. It has everything I need and
>> want to do. All from one AA battery to boot.
>
> What about all your laptops Bill, how many AAs do they take?

Hahaha good question. I buy laptops which has cheap battery replacements.
For example I buy cheap Li-Ion batteries with the Gateway brand name on them
on eBay for less than 40 bucks for almost a 4 hour runtime (they are brand
new and not used). And the battery will last me over 10 years.

I do have a Palm IIIxe that does run from two AAA batteries. Does that
count? Although I do like my Palm IIIc much better which uses a Li-Ion
battery which you have to disassemble it to replace it. Luckily I get them
cheap too on eBay and they last 5 years before I have to spend another 10
bucks to get another one. Since they were built back in '99, I only had to
replace it once. The second battery is doing just fine so far (knock on
wood).

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d6951e71-e3cb-4d8e-8a70-65653e34b3e4@q35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
source: http://www.popsci.com/gear-amp-gadge...8-10/double-ok

I bet the ’80s was a good decade for Energizer, Duracell and their
ilk. I mean, it was a good decade for sharkskin, too, but the ’80s had
to be the absolute peak for these battery makers. Suddenly, it seemed
like everything required portable juice: that new-fangled wireless TV
remote, the Walkman, my futuristic calculator watch and, of course,
all of those awesomely high-tech electronic toys like Simon (which
actually had its launch party at Studio 54!).

Well, Energizer’s mascot might not have changed since then, but times
sure have. Today, I can’t even count the number of portable electronic
gadgets I own—each of them requiring its own on-the-go power source.
And yet, I probably buy fewer than 10 batteries per year. Even then
I’m only buying them for my two TV remotes, smoke alarm and flashlight—
things that haven’t changed much since the ’80s.

Nowadays, proprietary batteries are forced upon us by the
manufacturers of the very devices we need them for. What’s worse,
these batteries are in many cases impossible to replace without
performing major surgery on your gadget’s delicate innards (ahem,
Apple). While this is quite the cozy and convenient situation for
manufacturers, I can’t help but feel screwed. And I don’t like feeling
screwed…

Where’s the beef? C’mon, that should be obvious. Anyone who’s ever
traveled from Point A to B knows the misery of lugging around the
cable salad of different proprietary chargers for a laptop, cell
phone, digital camera, iPod and portable gaming unit. I roll up and
pack each and every one of these chargers with me on even the briefest
of excursions; I’m sure you do too. We’ve all been there. We’ve all
had a gadget die on us and not had its charger on hand. For me, it
wasn’t as tragic a scenario as having my digital camera conk out on
vacation, but it was painful nonetheless. I recently traveled to
Europe and, in the rush to get to the airport, neglected to pack my
iPod charger. So, while I rocked all the way to Heathrow, the flight
back was far less enjoyable. What were my options, after all? I could
have gone without, or I could have purchased a new charger. For iPod
owners, that’s now a two-part kick in gut: the USB cable, plus the USB-
to-power-outlet thingamajig. That’s a £40 expenditure at the apple.com/
uk store, so it would have cost me about $80. No thanks.

Some time in the early part of this decade I owned a digital camera by
Olympus that accepted standard batteries. If the battery ran out on me
during a trip, I could buy a new one at any drug store and be on my
way. That’s a right I’d like back. If my iPod dies, I shouldn’t have
to wait until I get home or near a power outlet to use it again. If my
cell phone sputters out while traveling, I shouldn’t be forced to
locate a Best Buy or Verizon store in order to shell out a new
charger. Why have we accepted this completely unnecessary
inconvenience as a fact of life?

I saw an ad recently for Energizer’s new Ultimate Lithium batteries,
which are designed specifically for digital devices. Duracell has
something similar called PowerPix, which is a line geared for cameras.
Panasonic makes the gadget-friendly EVOLTA. Problem solved, right?
Wrong. I can’t find more than a handful of products that actually use
these batteries. Energizer’s site lists a few Nikon cameras, a
Motorola Bluetooth headset, a GPS unit from Bushnell and some LEGO
robots. Duracell’s site doesn’t bother listing anything at all, and
Panasonic’s EVOLTA site only goes so far as to show a remote-
controlled car and a no-name digital camera, both of which I suspect
are stock photography. Typing a hundred variations of “AA batteries
portable electronics” into Google is a completely fruitless endeavor.

It’s too bad these battery makers have close to no support from the
electronics industry—but it’s understandable why. Electronics
manufacturers make boatloads forcing us to buy their chargers and
replacement batteries, which they have a convenient monopoly on. Plus,
proprietary batteries are essentially custom made for the gadgets
they’re powering, which is why our electronic toys have continued to
shrink in size over the years. Think about how bloated your iPhone
would be if it had to accommodate a chamber for two AA bullets.
Energizer and Duracell could easily make a universal slim-profile
battery and make it available everywhere. But, what incentive would
there be for gadget manufacturers to make their products work with it?

Sadly, our power liberation won’t come without standardization, and
standardization won’t come without legislation. Without laws forcing
manufacturers to make their products compatible with a standard
battery size, this notion of mine will remain forever a pipe dream. So
here it is: I’m calling for a new battery size—let’s call it “G” for
Grouse. It’s super slim, it’s available in both rechargeable and
disposable flavors, it’s available anywhere you can buy toilet paper
and it’s compatible with all digital cameras, cell phones, handheld
media players and portable game consoles. And because it’s
manufactured by different vendors, it’s affordable.

Am I really talking about battery legislation here? I am indeed, and
doing my best not to come off as old-fartish as Andy Rooney while
doing so. What do you think – do you agree with me, or did I just
waste 15 minutes of your life on an absurdly inane issue? Let me hear
it!


I think free market principles work very well here. As others have said,
"why buy it if you don't like the battery in it?" Some legislated,
standardized, battery is not the answer. The company, like the one that uses
a single AA battery for MP3, will thrive. That's innovation and capitalism
at work.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:32:01 -0500, BillW50 wrote:

> Take for example of my MP3 player. Many of them use proprietary batteries,
> but some do not. That is why I fell in love with my four iRiver T10 players.
> They run 45 plus hours on a single AA battery. It has a great FM radio to
> boot and can record from FM and sports a timer as well. So set it to record
> something and then do what you need to do and come back and everything is
> recorded (I hear tell European models this feature is disabled for legal
> reasons). Plays files from many different formats too. It has everything I
> need and want to do. All from one AA battery to boot.

The iAudio G3 also used a single AA battery (50 hours playback)
and judging from a comparison with my iRiver T60 which uses a single
AAA cell, was probably a better mp3 player than the iRiver T10.
Among its features was that bookmarks could be set for a large
number of mp3 files, a really useful feature for audiobooks. The
problem with these players is that they're disappearing. Where is
the T10 or G3 still sold? They don't seem to be available anymore.
J&R and B&H both sell many iRiver mp3 players, but the only model
that they carry that doesn't use a Li-Ion battery is the T60, and
neither store carries the 4GB version any longer. J&R only has the
1GB model and B&H has the 1GB and 2GB versions. A problem with the
G3 and T60 is that they have very small displays which (for me, at
least) are difficult to use without reading glasses.

I'd love to be able to find a good mp3 player that uses either AA
or AAA cells, has good battery life and a larger display but as I
haven't been able to do that, I recently got an iAudio (aka Cowon)
D2 that uses a Li-Ion battery. It has a large screen that is much
more readable and navigable, has the G3's flexible bookmarks (up to
256), has good battery life (52 hours/charge), can be bought with
4GB, 8GB or 16GB of built-in memory, and can also access mp3 and
other format audio and video files saved on SDHC memory cards.

"Lancelot" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I think free market principles work very well here. As others have said,
>"why buy it if you don't like the battery in it?" Some legislated,
>standardized, battery is not the answer. The company, like the one that uses
>a single AA battery for MP3, will thrive. That's innovation and capitalism
>at work.

And besides, by the time the encapsulated battery fails in 2 years,
there will be something better, smaller, and cheaper to buy...with a
nice new proprietary battery...

(I replace my cell phones every two years cause with the deals it's
cheaper than replacing the battery...)

Environmental flames can start now...

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:15:06 -0500, BillW50 wrote:

> My VTech USB7200 uses two standard Ni-MH batteries. The OP doesn't
> have to buy stuff with proprietary batteries if they don't want too.

As does my Panasonic KX-TGA931S. But isn't your USB7200 also a
portable phone? It's cell phones that don't seem to use NiMH
batteries any more, even though they'd be more than adequate,
non-proprietary, widely available and inexpensive. Most people
don't see this as a real problem since cell phones are designed to
rapidly become so obsolete that most people replace the phones
before replacement batteries are needed. And with the phone plans,
most people think (falsely) that the new phones they get with their
carrier's new two year subscription plans are free.

In news:[email protected],
AJL typed on Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:06:46 -0700:
> "Lancelot" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I think free market principles work very well here. As others have
>> said, "why buy it if you don't like the battery in it?" Some
>> legislated, standardized, battery is not the answer. The company,
>> like the one that uses a single AA battery for MP3, will thrive.
>> That's innovation and capitalism at work.
>
> And besides, by the time the encapsulated battery fails in 2 years,
> there will be something better, smaller, and cheaper to buy...with a
> nice new proprietary battery...
>
> (I replace my cell phones every two years cause with the deals it's
> cheaper than replacing the battery...)
>
> Environmental flames can start now...

No I agree. Cell phones are different and it pays to just get another one
with far more features than your old one. No battery replacement necessary.
But if you wanted to, eBay probably has them cheap if it is a popular one.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2

In news:[email protected],
ASAAR typed on Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:59:55 -0400:
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:32:01 -0500, BillW50 wrote:
>
>> Take for example of my MP3 player. Many of them use proprietary
>> batteries, but some do not. That is why I fell in love with my four
>> iRiver T10 players. They run 45 plus hours on a single AA battery.
>> It has a great FM radio to boot and can record from FM and sports a
>> timer as well. So set it to record something and then do what you
>> need to do and come back and everything is recorded (I hear tell
>> European models this feature is disabled for legal reasons). Plays
>> files from many different formats too. It has everything I need and
>> want to do. All from one AA battery to boot.
>
> The iAudio G3 also used a single AA battery (50 hours playback)
> and judging from a comparison with my iRiver T60 which uses a single
> AAA cell, was probably a better mp3 player than the iRiver T10.
> Among its features was that bookmarks could be set for a large
> number of mp3 files, a really useful feature for audiobooks. The
> problem with these players is that they're disappearing. Where is
> the T10 or G3 still sold? They don't seem to be available anymore.
> J&R and B&H both sell many iRiver mp3 players, but the only model
> that they carry that doesn't use a Li-Ion battery is the T60, and
> neither store carries the 4GB version any longer. J&R only has the
> 1GB model and B&H has the 1GB and 2GB versions. A problem with the
> G3 and T60 is that they have very small displays which (for me, at
> least) are difficult to use without reading glasses.
>
> I'd love to be able to find a good mp3 player that uses either AA
> or AAA cells, has good battery life and a larger display but as I
> haven't been able to do that, I recently got an iAudio (aka Cowon)
> D2 that uses a Li-Ion battery. It has a large screen that is much
> more readable and navigable, has the G3's flexible bookmarks (up to
> 256), has good battery life (52 hours/charge), can be bought with
> 4GB, 8GB or 16GB of built-in memory, and can also access mp3 and
> other format audio and video files saved on SDHC memory cards.

Wow! That iAudio G3 also sounds really nice. The iRiver T10 only comes in
512kb, 1GB and 2GB versions (those 2GB versions might be fake, I am not
sure). That T60 also sounds very nice as well. Sorry to hear about the small
displays, I'm very nearsighted so small is just fine with me. Does either
have FM and record from them too? The T10 can record up to 4 hours with the
timer. It doesn't run out of memory, that is all it allows on the timer.
Sometimes I wish for more, but that is why I have more of them.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2

In news:[email protected],
ASAAR typed on Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:11:31 -0400:
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:15:06 -0500, BillW50 wrote:
>
>> My VTech USB7200 uses two standard Ni-MH batteries. The OP doesn't
>> have to buy stuff with proprietary batteries if they don't want too.
>
> As does my Panasonic KX-TGA931S. But isn't your USB7200 also a
> portable phone? It's cell phones that don't seem to use NiMH
> batteries any more, even though they'd be more than adequate,
> non-proprietary, widely available and inexpensive. Most people
> don't see this as a real problem since cell phones are designed to
> rapidly become so obsolete that most people replace the phones
> before replacement batteries are needed. And with the phone plans,
> most people think (falsely) that the new phones they get with their
> carrier's new two year subscription plans are free.

Yes the USB7200 is a cordless landline and also a VoIP phone. Yes I agree
with cell phones. Having proprietary batteries doesn't mean much with them.
Since you usually end up getting another phone before the batteries die.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2

ASAAR wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:50:26 -0400, U*U earned a 'D' by writing:
>
>>> Am I really talking about battery legislation here? I am indeed, and
>>> doing my best not to come off as old-fartish as Andy Rooney while
>>> doing so. What do you think – do you agree with me, or did I just
>>> waste 15 minutes of your life on an absurdly inane issue? Let me hear
>>> it!
>> Even Andy Rooney is laughing at you!!! I am to trade of my slim LithION
>> cellphone battery for what "AA" batteries, oh wait better be "D cells" to
>> get decent battery life.
>
> Nice theory, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
> Years ago I had a small, slim Nokia phone that used a NiMH battery
> pack that when opened revealed essentially three AAA NiMH cells.
> Battery talk and standby time was good (it only needed to be
> recharged weekly), and it supported both digital and analog
> networks. Cell phones aren't used like cameras, so despite the NiMH
> cells of that time having fairly high self-discharge rates, it had
> no measurable negative impact. Today's Eneloop AAA cells have
> higher capacity as well as lower self-discharge rates than Li-Ion
> batteries. With such small battery requirements, Li-Ion's lighter
> weight hardly matters, unless you're dealing with sub-miniature
> electronic devices intended to attach to, or dangle from ears.
>
> Li-Ion batteries have some nice properties, but low cost isn't
> often the case. The last several cell phones I've used had
> replacement batteries priced so high that I've never bought any of
> them. Instead, I've wastefully purchased complete duplicate cell
> phones, including chargers, manuals and new batteries for anywhere
> from 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of just the proprietary battery.
>
> The Panasonic portable phone I bought earlier this year has
> excellent battery life, and I can use it for hours with the battery
> indicator never showing that the capacity has been reduced by more
> than one segment. The batteries will probably last many years but
> when they're eventually replaced I won't have to worry about whether
> any expensive, proprietary, batteries can still be found, since it
> uses just two 630mAH NiMH AAA cells. Today's AAA NiMH cells are
> very inexpensive (just a couple of dollars) and have capacities at
> least up to 1,000mAH. Even low self-discharge AAA Eneloops have
> significantly higher capacity, 800 mAH, but even that's overkill
> since today's phones (and cameras too) use so much less power than
> they used to.
>
> I noticed that you removed sci.chem.electrochem.battery and some
> other newsgroups from the OP's original list, substituting for them
> alt.usenet.kooks. Would that happen to be your home base?
>
Perhaps you can explain how one could get 3 AAA cells into a phone the
size of the Motorola RAZR. Do that, and I would be a likely customer.
Until then, the lithium ion batteries are the best answer, and lighter
as well.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:21:33 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:

>What do you think – do you agree with me, or did I just
>waste 15 minutes of your life on an absurdly inane issue? Let me hear
>it!

Only 2 minutes of my life. I read faster than you type. :-)

But seriously, I do understand your anguish and anger, and need to do SOMEthing
about it. I'm one of those lucky few that owns a good multimeter, soldering gun,
and purchasing savvy. I'd rather make my own life better than force or expect
others to make my life better for me. You'll be in your grave before they do
that.

If a device I own doesn't take a more universal battery or common battery
charger, then I make one for it. Or I search and search until I do find a more
universal solution.

For example, I won't even consider for one moment paying $40-$60 for one of
Canon's brick-sized, brick-weight, dedicated, external camera power-supplies. I
went on the hunt and found a multi-voltage switching power-supply (a type of
compact, hi-amperage converter). Good thing that Canon only offered their
overweight oversized overpriced crap or I wouldn't have gone in search of this
handy-dandy to add to my supplies. Made by "Lenmar", their "Pro40" model. If I
recall it was only $18 or something like that at the time. Comes complete with
every adapter that any camera (and other battery operated device) that I've ever
owned uses. Comes complete with every voltage setting that every camera that
I've ever owned uses. Comes complete with amperages from 1.7A to 2.5A (voltage
dependent) for every power-consumption required. Comes complete as a size
smaller than a pack of cigarettes so it can fit in nearly any camera bag or
pocket. It's just as light as a pack of cigarettes too. Comes complete with
100-240v AC 50/60Hz input.

Then recently I went on the hunt for a new MP3 player. My old one lost its sound
quality after I landed a 7lb. bass on the shoreline this summer and the MP3
player momentarily played tunes to the fish and frogs. (I hope they enjoyed it.)
Afterward it still worked, but ... low passages had a distracting rumbling and
hiss in them on all tunes and audio-books. (Wasn't no leech that got in there, I
even opened it up and washed it out to be sure. :-) )

I hunted for a new MP3 player for quite a while. Always running into one reason
or another why I would NOT support that design or corporate concept. No
replaceable battery? Nope, keep looking. No way to add more memory with a
jaw-droppingly-inexpensive MicroSD card? Nope, keep looking. Dedicated
replaceable battery? Never a first choice, but maybe, ONLY if I can't find
anything that doesn't fit the first two requirements ... the hunt was long.

So I found a sale on Sandisk's "Sansa" players. Found some of their $100 models
on sale for $20. My last non-Sandisk one worked for18-hours on one AAA NiMH
cell. I loved that. The new ones from other companies? All proprietary "no user
servicable parts inside" internal batteries. The rare few that did still run on
AAA's didn't have the MicroSD card requirement. Major bummer. But these Sandisk
ones, with MicroSD slot, at least had an easily removable Li-Polymer
battery-pack in the back. Runs for about 10-14 hours per charge.Ttaking a hit
backward on playtime with that one. But I wouldn't even consider buying a device
where the battery can't be easily replaced. Replacements for these are available
from quite a few sources when I went on a hunt for them, to be certain before I
even made my MP3 player purchase, even at that low price. Then I found out the
backup batteries would cost $25 to $30 each, with shipping. I quickly decided to
order a whole extra MP3 player that was on sale for only $20 with new battery
(headphones, extra proprietary USB cable, etc.) included for a well-rounded
backup. I feel I sorta won this round. These models are also one of the few to
be supported by RockBox.org software so I can even play DVD movie rips on my MP3
player. Whoo hoo! I also keep a slideshow on my MP3 player of some of my
favorite photography. RockBox does indeed rock. Except for dedicated battery
this was win-win-win all around.

Anyway ... While I hate it has a dedicated Li-Polymer battery pack, at least I
got a good deal this time. 2 excellent MP3 players for the price of just 2 of
their batteries (shipping was even free), and the battery is easily replaceable.
Should the batteries ever fail or those batteries are no longer made? Out comes
the soldering gun and I turn it into a 3-AAA NiMH model. Exact same voltage. But
much more amperage. It'll run 6-8x's as long on 3-AAAs. Many days worth of
non-stop listening pleasure, weeks to months between charges if used
intermittently. In a way I'm sort of hoping that the dedicated Li-Polymer
batteries fail so I will go ahead and modify these to be more functional. Hell,
I just might make a 3-AAA adapter for them anyway for use both ways. I can run
them off of a portable USB-connector 5v power-source that I have, through their
USB connection, but that's much more awkward and cumbersome, that's better for
use in a car or something.

The other reason I bring up this MP3 player anecdote, is that this battery that
they use in their MP3 players is almost exactly what you describe. An easily
replaceable pack, that's only 1" x 2.25" x 1/8". Flat little lightweight
Li-Polymer rectangle, could be used in most any of the new slim gadgets, more
than one if needing more amperage or voltage. If everyone started to have enough
brains to understand the convenience of this and only buy devices that supported
them.

So there you go. Yes, you can whine about it, even try to force them to do it
through political means. But there is no greater vote in the world than where
you put your dollar. After all, that is really the only time you vote in life
now, when you purchase something. Whatever corporation gets the most money
decides your government for you, not your hanging-chad at the voting booth.
People are just kidding themselves when they go cast their ballot. Voting today
is nothing but a senseless displacement activity, like a bird that resorts to
preening its feathers when it can't escape an impending attack. A familiar but
now-useless motion because they don't know what else to do. Democracy died many
decades ago, capitalism buried it and tamped the dirt down, permanently.

$1 = 1 vote. Make no doubt about that.

Oh, and work on getting creative so you aren't dependent on corporate fascism.
Learn to solder and tweak to circumvent the dependency traps that they want
everyone to fall into for their own benefit, not yours.