Rail companies roll out barcode ticket standard

[cross-posted to uk.telecom.mobile]
[original thread on uk.railway]

On 18 Dec, 14:10, disgoftunwells <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> The current Chiltern system sends tickets by SMS (or e-mail), and well
> over 90% of phones can display the barcode, and virtually all phones
> can display the ticket number which can be keyed in. Not only that,
> but everyone knows where their SMS inbox is.
>
> The new RSP standard has all the ticket data in the barcode. It can
> only be sent by MMS, or a web page to the phone browser, or to a Java
> application. Unfortunately that will limit it to quite a bit over 50%
> of phones, but an unknown percentage of users.

I've never bought a Chiltern Railway's e-ticket so I'm unfamiliar with
the system, but I did wonder how it worked as the help pages
specifically say SMS as opposed to MMS. I'm curious (indeed, somewhat
perplexed) as to how an SMS message can result in a barcode being
displayed - barcodes are not after all ASCII test. How does this work?

For the uninitiated, the Chiltern "tckt by txt" are described on this
Q&A page:
http://ticketing.chilternrailways.co...nd-answers.php

---

› See More: Rail companies roll out barcode ticket standard

In message
c4f277cb-a7ae-4370-91a3-801ccae6f33b...oglegroups.com,
Mizter T <[email protected]> Proclaimed from the tallest tower:

> [cross-posted to uk.telecom.mobile]
> [original thread on uk.railway]
>
> On 18 Dec, 14:10, disgoftunwells <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>> The current Chiltern system sends tickets by SMS (or e-mail), and
>> well over 90% of phones can display the barcode, and virtually all
>> phones can display the ticket number which can be keyed in. Not only
>> that, but everyone knows where their SMS inbox is.
>>
>> The new RSP standard has all the ticket data in the barcode. It can
>> only be sent by MMS, or a web page to the phone browser, or to a Java
>> application. Unfortunately that will limit it to quite a bit over 50%
>> of phones, but an unknown percentage of users.
>
> I've never bought a Chiltern Railway's e-ticket so I'm unfamiliar with
> the system, but I did wonder how it worked as the help pages
> specifically say SMS as opposed to MMS. I'm curious (indeed, somewhat
> perplexed) as to how an SMS message can result in a barcode being
> displayed - barcodes are not after all ASCII test. How does this work?
>
> For the uninitiated, the Chiltern "tckt by txt" are described on this
> Q&A page:
> http://ticketing.chilternrailways.co...nd-answers.php

I'm guessing that the SMS message contains an URL that opens a webpage
containing the barcode...???

--
Regards,
Chris.
(Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)

"Mizter T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c4f277cb-a7ae-4370-91a3-801ccae6f33b@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> [cross-posted to uk.telecom.mobile]
> [original thread on uk.railway]
>
> On 18 Dec, 14:10, disgoftunwells <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>> The current Chiltern system sends tickets by SMS (or e-mail), and well
>> over 90% of phones can display the barcode, and virtually all phones
>> can display the ticket number which can be keyed in. Not only that,
>> but everyone knows where their SMS inbox is.
>>
>> The new RSP standard has all the ticket data in the barcode. It can
>> only be sent by MMS, or a web page to the phone browser, or to a Java
>> application. Unfortunately that will limit it to quite a bit over 50%
>> of phones, but an unknown percentage of users.
>
> I've never bought a Chiltern Railway's e-ticket so I'm unfamiliar with
> the system, but I did wonder how it worked as the help pages
> specifically say SMS as opposed to MMS. I'm curious (indeed, somewhat
> perplexed) as to how an SMS message can result in a barcode being
> displayed - barcodes are not after all ASCII test. How does this work?
>
> For the uninitiated, the Chiltern "tckt by txt" are described on this
> Q&A page:
> http://ticketing.chilternrailways.co...nd-answers.php



I'm sure they mean MMS, and it can be made to work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQFtGWNJ0k0

The technology works in reverse too with a suitable app.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQp4c...eature=related

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 18 Dec, 16:19, "Graham." <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Mizter T" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > [cross-posted to uk.telecom.mobile]
> > [original thread on uk.railway]
>
> > On 18 Dec, 14:10, disgoftunwells <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> (snip)
>
> >> The current Chiltern system sends tickets by SMS (or e-mail), and well
> >> over 90% of phones can display the barcode, and virtually all phones
> >> can display the ticket number which can be keyed in. Not only that,
> >> but everyone knows where their SMS inbox is.
>
> >> The new RSP standard has all the ticket data in the barcode. It can
> >> only be sent by MMS, or a web page to the phone browser, or to a Java
> >> application. Unfortunately that will limit it to quite a bit over 50%
> >> of phones, but an unknown percentage of users.
>
> > I've never bought a Chiltern Railway's e-ticket so I'm unfamiliar with
> > the system, but I did wonder how it worked as the help pages
> > specifically say SMS as opposed to MMS. I'm curious (indeed, somewhat
> > perplexed) as to how an SMS message can result in a barcode being
> > displayed - barcodes are not after all ASCII test. How does this work?
>
> > For the uninitiated, the Chiltern "tckt by txt" are described on this
> > Q&A page:
> > http://ticketing.chilternrailways.co...nd-answers.php
>
> I'm sure they mean MMS, and it can be made to work
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQFtGWNJ0k0
>
> The technology works in reverse too with a suitable app.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQp4c...eature=related
>

The first video demonstrates how I understand it to work on Chiltern
Railways (I've seen the fixed readers on ticket gates, the handheld
readers used by guards and also recall seeing that kind of barcode in
a leaflet of theirs). I can only think they mean MMS, not SMS - but
this is apparently contradicted by their website and also by the
poster I was replying to who seemed to think otherwise.

Anyway, I've just had a brainwave - perhaps the ticket is sent as an
MMS if this is supported by the network and the device, and failing
that it is sent as an SMS...

<...looks carefully at the Q&A page again...>

Aha, here's what I was looking for. Under the heading that says "What
is a tckt by txt and what do they look like?" it states...

"[...]Some older phones will be sent a text only ticket; this is still
valid for travel but will need to be manually checked by our staff."

Problem solved then! Sorry for disturbing you u.t.m folks.

On 18 Dec, 15:17, Mizter T <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm curious (indeed, somewhat
> perplexed) as to how an SMS message can result in a barcode being
> displayed - barcodes are not after all ASCII test. How does this work?

Many phones support receiving low-res images in SMS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTA_Bitmap

U

On 2008-12-19 10:32:20 +0000, Mr Thant
<[email protected]> said:

> On 18 Dec, 15:17, Mizter T <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I'm curious (indeed, somewhat
>> perplexed) as to how an SMS message can result in a barcode being
>> displayed - barcodes are not after all ASCII test. How does this work?
>
> Many phones support receiving low-res images in SMS:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTA_Bitmap
>
> U

May I add to that? The link describes a Nokia proprietary
implementation, so it would only be found in Nokia handsets. Only those
features which are described in the GSM and 3G set of standards
originally prepared under the auspices of ETSI (European
Telecommunications Standards Institute) and 3GPP (3rd Generation
Partnership Programme) ( http://www.3gpp.org/ )will be adopted by all
the infrastructure and handset manufacturers. Even then there can be
differences in that features are labelled as either 'mandatory' or
'optional' so it is up to the network operator to specify exactly what
he requires for his kit.
--
Robert

On 19 Dec, 11:42, Robert <[email protected]> wrote:
> May I add to that? The link describes a Nokia proprietary
> implementation, so it would only be found in Nokia handsets.

It's widely implemented by other manufacturers though, and I'm fairly
certain it's what Chiltern used to get a barcode on my phone (a Sony
Ericsson). The fact it isn't a proper standard doesn't matter all that
much for their purposes (although I realise the ideological and longer
term impacts of ad-hoc standards like this).

U

On 18 Dec, 17:56, disgoftunwells <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 18 Dec, 16:54, Mizter T <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 18 Dec, 16:19, "Graham." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > "Mizter T" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > [cross-posted to uk.telecom.mobile]
> > > > [original thread on uk.railway]
>
> > > > On 18 Dec, 14:10, disgoftunwells <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > >> (snip)
>
> > > >> The current Chiltern system sends tickets by SMS (or e-mail), and well
> > > >> over 90% of phones can display the barcode, and virtually all phones
> > > >> can display the ticket number which can be keyed in. Not only that,
> > > >> but everyone knows where their SMS inbox is.
>
> > > >> The new RSP standard has all the ticket data in the barcode. It can
> > > >> only be sent by MMS, or a web page to the phone browser, or to a Java
> > > >> application. Unfortunately that will limit it to quite a bit over 50%
> > > >> of phones, but an unknown percentage of users.
>
> > > > I've never bought a Chiltern Railway's e-ticket so I'm unfamiliar with
> > > > the system, but I did wonder how it worked as the help pages
> > > > specifically say SMS as opposed to MMS. I'm curious (indeed, somewhat
> > > > perplexed) as to how an SMS message can result in a barcode being
> > > > displayed - barcodes are not after all ASCII test. How does this work?
>
> > > > For the uninitiated, the Chiltern "tckt by txt" are described on this
> > > > Q&A page:
> > > > http://ticketing.chilternrailways.co...nd-answers.php
>
> > > I'm sure they mean MMS, and it can be made to work
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQFtGWNJ0k0
>
> > > The technology works in reverse too with a suitable app.
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQp4c...eature=related
>
> Try here:
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4YTqOSgfKNU
>

Thanks, that's great, as along with all the Brummies doing voc-pops it
actually shows a mobile displaying a text barcode at 47 seconds in and
again briefly at the end. I was under the quite erroneous impression
that Chiltern were using the more sophisticated square-shaped barcodes
(shouldn't they be called 'squarecodes' then?) like these ones here
(though obviously the last one is a 'circlecode'!):
http://mizter.t.googlepages.com/barcodes.png

>
> > The first video demonstrates how I understand it to work on Chiltern
> > Railways (I've seen the fixed readers on ticket gates, the handheld
> > readers used by guards and also recall seeing that kind of barcode in
> > a leaflet of theirs). I can only think they mean MMS, not SMS - but
> > this is apparently contradicted by their website and also by the
> > poster I was replying to who seemed to think otherwise.
>
> > Anyway, I've just had a brainwave - perhaps the ticket is sent as an
> > MMS if this is supported by the network and the device, and failing
> > that it is sent as an SMS...
>
> > <...looks carefully at the Q&A page again...>
>
> > Aha, here's what I was looking for. Under the heading that says "What
> > is a tckt by txt and what do they look like?" it states...
>
> > "[...]Some older phones will be sent a text only ticket; this is still
> > valid for travel but will need to be manually checked by our staff."
>
> > Problem solved then! Sorry for disturbing you u.t.m folks.
>
> The tickets are mostly SMS (actually a subset of SMS called Enhanced
> Messaging Service (EMS), which concatenates texts) unless you have a
> smart phone (WAP Push ) or an ancient phone (Plain text SMS ). The
> advantage of SMS is that everyone is familiar with it.
>
> There has been some use of MMS tickets (on Hull Trains?) but there the
> user needs to receive a test ticket and confirm its receipt.
>
> SMS tickets however can't convey much data so will not work with the
> new ATOC standard.
>

Thanks for the explanation - it all makes much more sense now. That
also (sort of) explains how old steam-powered mobiles with the most
basic SMS functionality can receive these messages anyway but will
only display the text (so presumably the serial/reference number of
the ticket), not the barcode. Would these ancient phones just ignore
the attempt to send them a barcode, or alternatively display a load of
nonsense characters (potentially confusing to the punters), or would
the network simply not send such data to a basic mobile phone like
that in the first place I wonder?

On 19 Dec, 12:46, Mizter T <[email protected]> wrote:
> Very interesting - actually I do recall those SMS bitmap-picture
> messages that were a selling point of the Nokia phones of old.
> 'disgoftunwells' upthread suggests that it is in fact "a subset of SMS
> called Enhanced Messaging Service (EMS)".

I've just discovered I still have the text from Chiltern lurking in my
inbox. The barcode image is an 80x15 pixel WBMP, so not the Nokia
format at all. It would appear to be an EMS.

U

In article
<[email protected]>,
Mizter T <[email protected]> wrote:

> Thanks for the explanation - it all makes much more sense now. That
> also (sort of) explains how old steam-powered mobiles with the most
> basic SMS functionality can receive these messages anyway but will
> only display the text (so presumably the serial/reference number of
> the ticket), not the barcode. Would these ancient phones just ignore
> the attempt to send them a barcode, or alternatively display a load of
> nonsense characters (potentially confusing to the punters), or would
> the network simply not send such data to a basic mobile phone like
> that in the first place I wonder?

A while back, before I activated MMS on my T-Mobile account, I did get
the odd SMS telling me that a 'picture message' had been delivered, with
a link to their website if I wanted to view it.

AFAIK the MMS message is a combination of alert/SMS to tell the phone
there is a message, and separate graphic & audio components, picked up
using GPRS or 3G. I say this because this is how they turn up on my
broken MMS application!

Mizter T wrote:

> Thanks, that's great, as along with all the Brummies doing voc-pops it
> actually shows a mobile displaying a text barcode at 47 seconds in and
> again briefly at the end. I was under the quite erroneous impression
> that Chiltern were using the more sophisticated square-shaped barcodes
> (shouldn't they be called 'squarecodes' then?) like these ones here
> (though obviously the last one is a 'circlecode'!):
> http://mizter.t.googlepages.com/barcodes.png

The Chiltern system does use 3D barcodes for those devices that support
them, and for the print@home tickets. Older phones, such as the Nokia in
the video, receive a 2D barcode instead.

Cheers,

Barry

On 19 Dec, 12:38, Mizter T <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 18 Dec, 17:56, disgoftunwells <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 18 Dec, 16:54, Mizter T <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On 18 Dec, 16:19, "Graham." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > "Mizter T" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > [cross-posted to uk.telecom.mobile]
> > > > > [original thread on uk.railway]
>
> > > > > On 18 Dec, 14:10, disgoftunwells <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > >> (snip)
>
> > > > >> The current Chiltern system sends tickets by SMS (or e-mail), and well
> > > > >> over 90% of phones can display the barcode, and virtually all phones
> > > > >> can display the ticket number which can be keyed in. Not only that,
> > > > >> but everyone knows where their SMS inbox is.
>
> > > > >> The new RSP standard has all the ticket data in the barcode. It can
> > > > >> only be sent by MMS, or a web page to the phone browser, or to aJava
> > > > >> application. Unfortunately that will limit it to quite a bit over 50%
> > > > >> of phones, but an unknown percentage of users.
>
> > > > > I've never bought a Chiltern Railway's e-ticket so I'm unfamiliarwith
> > > > > the system, but I did wonder how it worked as the help pages
> > > > > specifically say SMS as opposed to MMS. I'm curious (indeed, somewhat
> > > > > perplexed) as to how an SMS message can result in a barcode being
> > > > > displayed - barcodes are not after all ASCII test. How does this work?
>
> > > > > For the uninitiated, the Chiltern "tckt by txt" are described on this
> > > > > Q&A page:
> > > > >http://ticketing.chilternrailways.co...nd-answers.php
>
> > > > I'm sure they mean MMS, and it can be made to work
> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQFtGWNJ0k0
>
> > > > The technology works in reverse too with a suitable app.
> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQp4c...eature=related
>
> > Try here:
> >http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4YTqOSgfKNU
>
> Thanks, that's great, as along with all the Brummies doing voc-pops it
> actually shows a mobile displaying a text barcode at 47 seconds in and
> again briefly at the end. I was under the quite erroneous impression
> that Chiltern were using the more sophisticated square-shaped barcodes
> (shouldn't they be called 'squarecodes' then?) like these ones here
> (though obviously the last one is a 'circlecode'!):http://mizter.t.googlepages.com/barcodes.png

I actually used one of these recently, the first time in my life that
I have ever bought a rail ticket in advance, other than railtours.

The Chiltern system uses a code similar to the top-right example, I
can never remember the names of the various two-dimensional codes.

The ticket is sent as a SMS text message, not a MMS picture message.
The message is sent from 'Chiltern', and the code is quite small,
about 7mm square, and about 14 pixels square, though I'm having
difficulty counting them without my glasses. I hadn't realised that
it was possible to send these codes as a simple text message.

Below that is the ticket number, eight digits, then a hyphen, then
four digits, all underscored. Below this is:

Chiltern Railways
Advance Tckt
10 Dec 08
09:20 London Myb -
Birmingham SH
1xAd
£10.00X
Seats * ***

This was sent to a Sony Ericsson T610, not the latest technology, but
capable of handling both text and picture messages. The outward code
wouldn't read on the scanner, but the return one did on the way out.
The On-board staff did not use a scanner, I don't know if they have
them, but simply read the text.

On 19 Dec, 12:46, Mizter T <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 19 Dec, 11:55, Mr Thant <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > On 19 Dec, 11:42, Robert <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > May I add to that? The link describes a Nokia proprietary
> > > implementation, so it would only be found in Nokia handsets.
>
> > It's widely implemented by other manufacturers though, and I'm fairly
> > certain it's what Chiltern used to get a barcode on my phone (a Sony
> > Ericsson). The fact it isn't a proper standard doesn't matter all that
> > much for their purposes (although I realise the ideological and longer
> > term impacts of ad-hoc standards like this ).
>
> Very interesting - actually I do recall those SMS bitmap-picture
> messages that were a selling point of the Nokia phones of old.
> 'disgoftunwells' upthread suggests that it is in fact "a subset of SMS
> called Enhanced Messaging Service (EMS)".

Actually there are two subsets:
EMS is used by most phones apart from Nokias (http://en.wikipedia.org/
wiki/Enhanced_Messaging_Service)
Nokia Picture Messaging Service: A standard used by Nokia (and one or
two smaller brands). The Nokia will elongate the image to about 72
pixels wide by 28 pixels high.

Both are SMS. Many older phones don't support either standard, so all
you get is the ticket number. Annoyingly, most smart phones don't
support either standard so you're left with MMS and WAP Push (or other
forms of a link in an SMS).

On 19 Dec, 16:04, "Mr.G" <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> Mizter T <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the explanation - it all makes much more sense now. That
> > also (sort of) explains how old steam-powered mobiles with the most
> > basic SMS functionality can receive these messages anyway but will
> > only display the text (so presumably the serial/reference number of
> > the ticket), not the barcode. Would these ancient phones just ignore
> > the attempt to send them a barcode, or alternatively display a load of
> > nonsense characters (potentially confusing to the punters), or would
> > the network simply not send such data to a basic mobile phone like
> > that in the first place I wonder?
>
> A while back, before I activated MMS on my T-Mobile account, I did get
> the odd SMS telling me that a 'picture message' had been delivered, with
> a link to their website if I wanted to view it.
>
> AFAIK the MMS message is a combination of alert/SMS to tell the phone
> there is a message, and separate graphic & audio components, picked up
> using GPRS or 3G. I say this because this is how they turn up on my
> broken MMS application!
>

Yes I understand that - but I wasn't asking about MMS at all, rather
what happens when an old or very basic phone that only supports the
most basic SMS functionality i.e. one that does not not have the SMS
Enhanced Messaging Service capability (nothing to do with MMS)
receives a message with a barcode in it - does it just display a
nonsense string of characters?

My suspicion however is that the network - which knows what type of
device a mobile is and hence its capabilities - strips anything out
which the receiving handset cannot cope with.

On 19 Dec, 17:13, Barry Salter <[email protected]> wrote:

> Mizter T wrote:
> > Thanks, that's great, as along with all the Brummies doing voc-pops it
> > actually shows a mobile displaying a text barcode at 47 seconds in and
> > again briefly at the end. I was under the quite erroneous impression
> > that Chiltern were using the more sophisticated square-shaped barcodes
> > (shouldn't they be called 'squarecodes' then?) like these ones here
> > (though obviously the last one is a 'circlecode'!):
> >http://mizter.t.googlepages.com/barcodes.png
>
> The Chiltern system does use 3D barcodes for those devices that support
> them, and for the print@home tickets. Older phones, such as the Nokia in
> the video, receive a 2D barcode instead.
>

Aha, that explains things!

These 3D barcodes - are they sent as an 'enhanced SMS' message, or are
they just a normal MMS message instead, I wonder?