REQ: Motorola Phone Tools.

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 02:54:46 GMT, "brobin" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Where did you learn this? I find it hard to believe that BVRP gets nothing
>based on each copy of their work. But if you have documentation to back up
>your assertion I'd appreciate seeing it.
> Given that what you say is is true and only Motorola and/or their dealers
>keep all the revenue, does that somehow justify making or using it free as
>"warez?"
> If, as you claim, Motorola did buy a fully paid up license for unlimited
>distribution, are they not entitled to recoup and profit from that
>investment through sale of that software? And finally, notwithstanding any
>of the financial arrangements between BVRP and Motorola, why, under any
>circumstances, would anyone be entitled to a free copy of something that is
>not offered for free?
> If you think that it's wrong for a company not to bundle the software with
>the phone simply don't buy that company's phone and go with the company who
>offers what you want. Want Motorola with bundled software? Buy it that
>way - there are independent dealers who sell it that way.
> All the arguments justifying theft through "warez" are nothing more than
>excuses from spoiled brats too cheap to pay their own way and too cowardly
>to actually walk into the store and shoplift it.

Hmm, I'm not going to get into this warez argument...but let me ask you a
question.

If you were walking down the street and saw a £50 or $50 note on the
floor..and there wasn't anybody around...........Would you take it to the
nearest Police Station or just put it into your pocket, thereby technically
stealing it???
--

Regards

John [Essex, UK]
Remove the obvious spamtrap to reply

---

› See More: REQ: Motorola Phone Tools.

Flawed analogy. Cash lying on the ground on public property doesn't
"belong" to anybody and as such can't be stolen. Now, if it were a wallet
with $50 and an ID inside it would be stealing.



>
> Hmm, I'm not going to get into this warez argument...but let me ask you a
> question.
>
> If you were walking down the street and saw a £50 or $50 note on the
> floor..and there wasn't anybody around...........Would you take it to the
> nearest Police Station or just put it into your pocket, thereby
> technically
> stealing it???
> --
>
> Regards
>
> John [Essex, UK]
> Remove the obvious spamtrap to reply

Todd Copeland Wrote:
> "not" [email protected] wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> sorry. argument doesn't fly. it's more like buying a box with no DOS
> at all... gotta have an interface.
> i'll happily buy the data cable, but the software should come
> packaged.. period. and i'll feel no qualms whatsoever in finding it
> any way i can. end of discussion.-
>
> Actually you analogy is incorrect. You cannot use a computer with an OS
> but
> you can use a mobile phone w/o a PC cable and software. So bamp's
> example
> was more to the point. That being said... data cables _are_ sold with
> MPTs
> but the poster is not looking to _buy_ MPT, he's looking to steal it.
>
> So to follow your example, it's like buying a bare bones computer with
> no OS
> and then asking someone to send you a pirated copy of Windows to load
> onto
> it.


As most pc suppliers are switching to or advising the use of
FreeBSD/Linux that doesnt work either............... and is only your
point of view on that matter, my personal view is that PC's SHULD come
with a OS on board, only idiots allow themselves to be held hostage by
MS


--
methusela

Todd Copeland Wrote:
> "not" [email protected] wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> sorry. argument doesn't fly. it's more like buying a box with no DOS
> at all... gotta have an interface.
> i'll happily buy the data cable, but the software should come
> packaged.. period. and i'll feel no qualms whatsoever in finding it
> any way i can. end of discussion.-
>
> Actually you analogy is incorrect. You cannot use a computer with an OS
> but
> you can use a mobile phone w/o a PC cable and software. So bamp's
> example
> was more to the point. That being said... data cables _are_ sold with
> MPTs
> but the poster is not looking to _buy_ MPT, he's looking to steal it.
>
> So to follow your example, it's like buying a bare bones computer with
> no OS
> and then asking someone to send you a pirated copy of Windows to load
> onto
> it.


As most pc suppliers are switching to or advising the use of
FreeBSD/Linux that doesnt work either............... and is only your
point of view on that matter, my personal view is that PC's SHOULD come
with a OS on board, only idiots allow themselves to be held hostage by
MS which is after all the main player everyone aludes to when OS is
mentioned, I dont buy a car from a showroom without wheels, and engine.


--
methusela

But if you DID buy the car without wheels you wouldn't then be entitled to
steal wheels would you? The price you paid was without wheels and you can
then buy your own. You make a choice as to what bundle of hardware/software
to buy and then pick and choose what you want to add later. Or, if you don't
like the way a company bundles or unbundles is products you buy a competing
product that meets yours needs.
Motorola is but one cellphone maker. If you don't like the way they market
their product just buy from another company. Just because I think that
phones "should " come with an extra battery doesn't mean I'm entitled to
steal one.

"methusela" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Todd Copeland Wrote:
>> "not" [email protected] wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> sorry. argument doesn't fly. it's more like buying a box with no DOS
>> at all... gotta have an interface.
>> i'll happily buy the data cable, but the software should come
>> packaged.. period. and i'll feel no qualms whatsoever in finding it
>> any way i can. end of discussion.-
>>
>> Actually you analogy is incorrect. You cannot use a computer with an OS
>> but
>> you can use a mobile phone w/o a PC cable and software. So bamp's
>> example
>> was more to the point. That being said... data cables _are_ sold with
>> MPTs
>> but the poster is not looking to _buy_ MPT, he's looking to steal it.
>>
>> So to follow your example, it's like buying a bare bones computer with
>> no OS
>> and then asking someone to send you a pirated copy of Windows to load
>> onto
>> it.
>
>
> As most pc suppliers are switching to or advising the use of
> FreeBSD/Linux that doesnt work either............... and is only your
> point of view on that matter, my personal view is that PC's SHOULD come
> with a OS on board, only idiots allow themselves to be held hostage by
> MS which is after all the main player everyone aludes to when OS is
> mentioned, I dont buy a car from a showroom without wheels, and engine.
>
>
> --
> methusela

"brobin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Flawed analogy. Cash lying on the ground on public property doesn't
> "belong" to anybody and as such can't be stolen. Now, if it were a wallet
> with $50 and an ID inside it would be stealing.

Amen, brobin, you are right on!!

bamp

>
>
>
>>
>> Hmm, I'm not going to get into this warez argument...but let me ask you a
>> question.
>>
>> If you were walking down the street and saw a £50 or $50 note on the
>> floor..and there wasn't anybody around...........Would you take it to the
>> nearest Police Station or just put it into your pocket, thereby
>> technically
>> stealing it???
>> --
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> John [Essex, UK]
>> Remove the obvious spamtrap to reply
>
>

If I bought it "not being told" I couldn't drive without wheels. It's a
scam. If the phone is equipped with the feature. I should have access to
that feature. It's like having the tires in the trunk and not giving the new
owner the key to the trunk.

srjrev

Not being told? Did one ask? Can one not see that there's no software disk
in the box? Under your scenario I guess one would be entitled to steal a
Bluetooth headset too since the capability is there but it's not in the box?
Sellers can bundle or unbundle as they choose to meet the needs of the
market. If the software were bundled then the package price would likely be
$20-$30 higher. Then you'd have people who couldn't care less about the
software (most users in fact) complaining that they're being scammed into
paying for something that they don't want and won't use.
If it's a scam, simply don't buy the phone in the first place. Buy one that
is budled the way you want it. Any way you try to slice it, in a commercial
transaction such as buying a phone, one is not entitled to steal to get what
they want just because they "think" they're entitled to more.

"Stephen R. Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If I bought it "not being told" I couldn't drive without wheels. It's a
> scam. If the phone is equipped with the feature. I should have access to
> that feature. It's like having the tires in the trunk and not giving the
> new owner the key to the trunk.
>
> srjrev
>

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 05:41:46 GMT, "lun4tik" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>What is the difference between MPT Lite and the full version?

The "L" versions are missing some features. IIRC one thing the v2.xxL
version wouldn't do was sync the V3 with Outlook 2003, even though it
was shipped with the phone. The updated version (V3.00) was required
for full V3 compatibility.

>BTW the software company was paid by MOTOROLA long ago in the process.
>They are not paid based on how many overpriced copys are sold by the
>individual phone companies.

I didn't suggest they were, but BVRP were paid for one version
specific to Motorola which is not the full retail version the OP was
looking for.

> Who has purchased their copy directly from BVRP?

I for one did, because the retail version had features I wanted that
were missing from the version shipped with my phone.

>Like I said it's your provider that is trying to extract more loot
>form your pocket.

It's got b*gg*r all to do with my provider. They gained nothing from
my purchase of MPT. In any case, as I stated my V3 was the standard
GSM stock supplied by Motorola to UK retail channels and not tied in
to any paticular provider.

Al
--
[This space intentionally left blank]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:39:37 GMT, "brobin" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Flawed analogy. Cash lying on the ground on public property doesn't
>"belong" to anybody and as such can't be stolen. Now, if it were a wallet
>with $50 and an ID inside it would be stealing.


Excuse me??????? Of course it does.

If your analogy was correct then *anything* lying on public ground that
wasn't readily identifiable wouldn't belong to anybody!!! That includes
dogs without collars, cycles, cameras, bags etc......

As for money being a special case...say it was a $10,000 bundle dropped by
a security guard on the way to the bank .....still say that wouldn't be
stealing??
--

Regards

John [Essex, UK]
Remove the obvious spamtrap to reply

No. If it were dropped by a security guard the cash would be banded and
identifyable to a financial institution. If it were a bundle of loose cash
it would most likely be from a drug deal gone bad and fair game. The other
things you listed, with the exception of the bike and camera which have
serial numbers, the dog which may have an ID chip installed and the bag
which might have identifying marks that an owner could describe to a lost
and found clerk, leaving only "etc" in your example, need clearer
definition.
There is a set of laws, called copyright laws, that prohibit the theft of
software. So all the comparisons you care to make are meaningless. Copying
software not intended for free distribution is theft even if you think it
should be free.
Your analogy does have one redeeming point though. If one is so careless as
to leave cash lying on the ground, an expensive camera on a park bench or
their cycle unlocked, to what extent do they have a right to complain when
the items go missing? "Tempting the mortals" by leaving property unprotected
is inevitable and if one fails to protect one's assets then maybe they get
what they deserve. BVRP could easily require a registration code to use or
update the software and could even tie it into the phone's serial number.
However, lack of security still does not justify stealing.


"JC" <johncalias-newsgroupsATyahooD0TcoD0Tuk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:39:37 GMT, "brobin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Flawed analogy. Cash lying on the ground on public property doesn't
>>"belong" to anybody and as such can't be stolen. Now, if it were a wallet
>>with $50 and an ID inside it would be stealing.
>
>
> Excuse me??????? Of course it does.
>
> If your analogy was correct then *anything* lying on public ground that
> wasn't readily identifiable wouldn't belong to anybody!!! That includes
> dogs without collars, cycles, cameras, bags etc......
>
> As for money being a special case...say it was a $10,000 bundle dropped by
> a security guard on the way to the bank .....still say that wouldn't be
> stealing??
> --
>
> Regards
>
> John [Essex, UK]
> Remove the obvious spamtrap to reply

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:07:39 GMT, "brobin" <[email protected]> wrote:

> No. If it were dropped by a security guard the cash would be banded and
>identifyable to a financial institution. If it were a bundle of loose cash
>it would most likely be from a drug deal gone bad and fair game. The other
>things you listed, with the exception of the bike and camera which have
>serial numbers, the dog which may have an ID chip installed and the bag
>which might have identifying marks that an owner could describe to a lost
>and found clerk, leaving only "etc" in your example, need clearer
>definition.
> There is a set of laws, called copyright laws, that prohibit the theft of
>software. So all the comparisons you care to make are meaningless. Copying
>software not intended for free distribution is theft even if you think it
>should be free.
> Your analogy does have one redeeming point though. If one is so careless as
>to leave cash lying on the ground, an expensive camera on a park bench or
>their cycle unlocked, to what extent do they have a right to complain when
>the items go missing? "Tempting the mortals" by leaving property unprotected
>is inevitable and if one fails to protect one's assets then maybe they get
>what they deserve. BVRP could easily require a registration code to use or
>update the software and could even tie it into the phone's serial number.
>However, lack of security still does not justify stealing.

I think you're being a little pedantic now, because if I follow your
examples, then in your first analogy, the note might have the name of the
owner scribbled on it! Also, if my auntie had balls, she'd be my uncle!!

The loose cash could be from a shop owner on his way to the bank, just
because a camera has a serial number doesn't mean the owner kept a record
of it..same for the bike. The dog might not have a chip or a collar and the
bag could be completely nondescript!!!

I also note that you didn't answer my question as to whether you would hand
in a bundle of notes if you found them. Incidentally, most bundles I have
seen do *not* have the name of the company or individual on the band, only
the issuing financial institution..and even then, they would no longer be
the owners as they would have handed the bundle to a third party!!

I agree with your last point about security though...If Mobile Phone Tools
is readily available, openly from several popular sources, then BVRP can't
really be surprised that it is being downloaded for free!!

Does that make it right...of course not....in much the same way that I
suspect that most people (if no one was around to witness it) would pocket
a bundle of cash found on the floor...regardless of what it said on the
band!!

--

Regards

John [Essex, UK]
Remove the obvious spamtrap to reply

Agreed. Cheers!

"JC" <johncalias-newsgroupsATyahooD0TcoD0Tuk> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:07:39 GMT, "brobin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
<snip>> I agree with your last point about security though...If Mobile Phone
Tools
> is readily available, openly from several popular sources, then BVRP can't
> really be surprised that it is being downloaded for free!!
>
> Does that make it right...of course not....in much the same way that I
> suspect that most people (if no one was around to witness it) would pocket
> a bundle of cash found on the floor...regardless of what it said on the
> band!!
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> John [Essex, UK]
> Remove the obvious spamtrap to reply