Goodbye, Verizon...

In alt.cellular Larry Thomas <[email protected]> wrote:

> Steve, I know Sprint recently activated a new tower in Victorville but
> I'm still waiting for the two planned towers along Hwy 395 North of
> Adelanto and South of Hwy 58. Once they get that coverage up and
> running (which I hear is only about 4 or 5 months away) they will have
> coverage just about everywhere I go.

I wish I had an excuse to venture up there. My sister-in-law and her
family live right up on the northern end of Adelanto, and she and her
husband and my wife and about a gazillion other family members work for
the Adelanto School District, so we're out there a lot, but I really
have no reason to be north of Adelanto on 395.

I wish I did; I'd be happy to check out the signal on both phones and
report back to you... but we have to be careful with our gas usage...

> By the way does your Vi660 have the new hardware and software
> verisons? The original batch had some problems so they revised the
> hardware on the newere batches.

Uhhhhh. Other than our original Sprint phone, my wife's 8500, this is the
only Samsung model we've ever owned. I really have no idea, but Phone Info
says:

PRL 10024
S: ES.A660 XA28
H: A660.11

I have no idea what the last two lines mean - is that the info you're looking
for? My Kyocera phones have always specifically said what the firmware
revision is...

So far, I love the phone, and have had no problems, but I've not had it
even for a week yet...

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

---

› See More: Goodbye, Verizon...

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:54:08 -0400, Mike <[email protected]> wrote:

>I can certainly understand what you're doing, and your frustration,
>based on what you've talked about it. It doesn't really seem like VZW
>gives a crap about that area you're in.

*Every* carrier has places where they don't give a crap. With VZW
Apple Valley/Victorville apparently is one, as is Mobile, AL; with
Cingular, southeastern Tennessee is one...

-SC
--
Stanley Cline -- sc1 at roamer1 dot org -- http://www.roamer1.org/
....
"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might
be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune

Verizon could care less you are leaving. They have the best cellular network
available and can do anything they want. You were just an asset to
them....probably over-charging you anyway for services you had. You weren't
a customer...just another number customer service can blow off.

"Steven J Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, the unthinkable has happened.
>
> After nearly four years as a mostly-quite-satisfied Verizon Wireless
customer,
> I'm cancelling the service as soon as my contract ends, and porting my
number
> to Sprint PCS.
>
> Background:
>
> I live in Southern California, in the Mojave Desert. I have had
> continuous dropped-call problems at the intersection of Bear Valley
> Road and Hesperia Road on the Hesperia/Victorville border; ironically,
> the Victor Valley Town Square shopping center is at this intersection,
> and that's where the Verizon Wireless Victorville retail store is.
>
> I kept reporting the problems for months with no resolution, to find
> out later that the ticket I requested opened was closed with no
> communication. (VZW policy is that tech support is supposed to call
> you back if you open a ticket, and I didn't hear from them for months.
> They apparently ran some tests and didn't find any problems, or at
> least that's what I was told.) I have also had some problems on
> Highway 18 in Apple Valley, near Navajo Road - but I never followed up
> on those problems and they aren't the reason I cancelled. The primary
> reason is the lack of support on the repair issue, and the time it has
> taken to fix - and supposedly the problem has been fixed, but I don't
> know for sure. (And never will, either.)
>
> I live in Apple Valley, CA, in the northeast corner of town. The
> terrain in my neighborhood is quite hilly, and it's also quite hilly
> in the Marianas, the foothills that sit between southern Apple Valley
> and the San Bernardino Mountains. Providing any kind of radio service
> is tough - I've discussed doing 802.11x wireless Internet service with
> people here recently, and you have to be careful where you put the
> towers (although I am now partnered with a local ISP that IS doing
> wireless). Providing cellular service has to be tricky too, and I'm
> *just* outside Verizon coverage at my house. Sometimes I can get a
> good signal, sometimes not; I often had problems receiving calls on
> VZW, as well as problems with the phone not de-registering from the
> network properly when I turned it off, because it couldn't FIND the
> network (with the result that my callers still had to wait six rings
> to go to voicemail when they should have gone direct to VM). If I forced
> my VZW phone to analog, I *could* make a call without fail, except when
> the analog cells were filled up, which was actually pretty often.
>
> Now, if I was to estimate about 1,000 people living in the immediate
> area, I think I'd be guessing high. And you can look north from my
> house towards Barstow and see miles of NOTHING except maybe one house
> every half-mile or so. Given that, I can't fault Verizon for not
> improving coverage in the neighborhood around my house, because they'd
> be spending an assload of money on an area where they may only have a
> few customers. I imagine that it's unlikely that they'd recoup their
> expenditures. Yet Sprint PCS, the carrier world-renowned for "only
covering
> big cities and the major highways," has coverage here. Good, *solid*
> coverage.
>
> Having experienced all of this, I have come up with a theory.
>
> You see, the Victor Valley -- Victorville, Apple Valley, and a group
> of about four or five other towns in the immediate area -- has a
> population of, mmm, probably about a quarter million people. Maybe
> 300,000. But we're in the Los Angeles market. Of course, Los Angeles,
> which is 90 miles away (a 1.5-hour to 2-hour drive if traffic is
> light), is the second-largest city in the US, and the metro area has a
> population of several million people. Given this, and given my
> experiences with VZW since moving here, I have come to assume that
> Victorville is the bastard child here.
>
> I call this the Akron, Ohio syndrome. I have spoken in private email
> with someone else from the Verizon newsgroup to whom I mentioned that
> my VZW service was outstanding when I lived in Cleveland. Well,
> Akron's about 30 miles south of Cleveland and is much smaller.
> Cleveland hovers around #25 in terms of population... I forget where
> Akron ranks, but you're talking about MAYBE a couple hundred thousand
> people compared to 1 .25 to 1.5 million in the Cleveland metro. And
> this person told me they were having significant problems in DOWNTOWN
> Akron, out near the UA campus - not exactly a rural area, and not a
> place where a cell user should have trouble.
>
> And yet ANOTHER example... My sister-in-law and her husband were
> stationed at Fort Campbell until recently. Now she is back in college,
> but he landed a job at the base, so they still live in the area. Fort
> Campbell literally straddles the KY/TN state line - part of it is in
> Elizabethtown, KY and part is in Clarksville, TN. Apparently VZW
> doesn't work too well out there either. And Clarksville would be
> ANOTHER medium-size town close to a large population center: it's
> 20-30 miles from Nashville.
>
> It's rather disappointing.
>
> So I activated my second line with Sprint on Friday*, and they sent me
> a cool silver Samsung SPH-A660 (the "VI660" is what Sprint calls it), a
tri-
> mode phone, for $30 plus tax, with a two-year contract and a commitment to
try
> PCS Vision for free for two months. (The 660 is much like the SCH-A650
> model that Verizon sells, but with some really cool features like
> Voice Digit Dial - which is why I got the phone - and voice menus and
> traditional voice dialing that in most cases DON'T REQUIRE TRAINING
> THE PHONE! Plus, of course, since it's a Sprint phone it supports PCS
> Vision apps written in Java as opposed to Qualcomm's Binary Runtime
> Environment for Wireless [BREW], which Verizon uses. I like that too,
> for reasons that are irrelevant to this post...)
>
> It was $45.50 out the door because they charge tax on the retail price
> of the phone (in this case, $199). I didn't have to pay for next-day
> shipping, though.
>
> My VZW contract ends on August 17th, and I've been issued enough
> customer-satisfaction credits by Verizon that I probably won't owe
> them any money, since I dropped my plan to the $15/25 minute emergency
> plan a couple weeks ago. That's one thing that has been cool recently:
> Verizon has been acknowledging my problems and offering service
> credits. I even got a month free a couple months ago. Quite frankly,
> however, I'd rather have the service work all the time than have to
> call in and whine about problems. Not that I mind free wireless
> service, but it's useless if the calls don't go through.
>
> Another issue is that I did switch down to the $15/month/25-minute
> emergency plan for $15 from my $59.95 America's Choice 800 plan, but then
> I was told I'd still owe the AC balance for the current month
> and had to wait 30 days for the new rate to kick in. Keep in mind that
> at this point, I'd be paying $59.95, not $15, for 25 minutes/month and
> no nights/weekends or in-network calling. (I could have gotten the
> emergency plan with 200 N/W minutes but it would have required a
> contract extension.) What complete *crap.* On the hook for $60 for a
> $15 plan. Bite me, VZW. I'd been relatively patient until I heard
> this, but hearing it *really* pissed me off. I generally have no issues
> with most of their policies, but that one has TURN THE CUSTOMER UPSIDE
> DOWN AND SHAKE HIM UNTIL HIS MONEY FALLS OUT OF HIS POCKET written all
> over it. Apparently, the "screw-the-customer" attitude exists somewhere
> relatively high-up within VZW, wherever policies like this are cooked
up...
>
> What I'm getting with Sprint PCS that I wasn't getting with Verizon:
>
> 1. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 2. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 3. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 4. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 5. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 6. Unlimited PCS to PCS calling, which because I have lots of family and
> friends on Sprint, will save me much more than the $5/month I'm paying for
it.
>
> 7. Flat-rate unlimited web browsing and download time through PCS
> Vision for $15 per month (ringtones and screensavers and apps are
> charged individually if purchased from Sprint, but the downloads don't
> cost extra if I go to a free site and send content to my phone).
> Includes a monthly download credit for content I buy from Sprint, or I
> can pay $10 if I don't want the download credit.
>
> 8. Flat-rate unlimited text messaging - something I really, really
> wanted to have when I used text messaging on my Verizon phones. This
> will finally make it practical to receive network outage notices,
> notices about my servers going down, etc., to my cell phone as I will
> not have to worry about counting messages. With Vision, 100 text
> messages/month are free or unlimited would be $5/month. ($5 and $10
> without Vision.)
>
> 9. A Samsung 660, although okay, I'll concede that I could have gotten
> almost the same phone from Verizon.
>
> 10. Slightly lower monthly access fees on PCS Free and Clear than on
> Verizon's equivalent plan (America's Choice). Plus, they're running a
> promotion, an Area Wide plan that covers CA and NV (just like VZW's
> local plans), 1000 minutes for $45, and since I am not planning on
> travelling for a while i might sign up for it and switch back to F&C
> later.
>
> 11. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 12. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 13. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 14. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> 15. Wireless service that actually works when and where I need it to work.
>
> I'll still hang out in alt.cellular.verizon, but no longer as a
> customer...
>
> OBTW, General Lee in the Verizon newsgroup suggested cancelling right
> away and disputing the $175 ETF on the basis that "we paid what we
> would have owed and you suffered no losses." I think it could work,
> but Sarah and I decided to take the safe route and just stick it out
> for another five weeks or so. My Verizon number goes to voice mail
> right now, as does my toll-free number which forwards to my cell
> phone. I check VM several times a day and will port my VZW number to
> Sprint at end-of-contract. Not the most convenient option, but
> definitely the safest.
>
> *sigh* VZW... what happened to the wonderful relationship we had? You seem
> to have dropped the ball. The service was great when I lived in Ohio...
>
> --SJS
>
> *I've been an SPCS customer since the end of '01. My wife's phone is, and
> always has been a Sprint phone.
>
> --
> JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
> Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
[email protected]
> PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
> Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Here is an interesting question. If someone has a phone from
carrier A before the portability was available, and ports the number to
carrier B, then cancels the account, does that number go back to the
carrier that paid for it, or is it now owned by carrier B?
Is there still the problem where a carrier would 'run out of'
numbers and have to buy more? Or does the number pooling fee paid by
the carriers to the gobmnt make all numbers available to all carriers
now? If so, is all the money paid to buy numbers before just gone?


O/Siris wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
>> Anyone who knows for sure, please confirm/deny, but I did not
>>think that you could port a number to an existing line/number. Does not
>>a ported number have to be to a new line of service?
>>
>
>
> It's called a port swap. So long as the number you're porting is in
> the same service area (called a CSA) as the existing number, it's a
> trivial operation. No harder than porting it in on a new line.
>

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Larry Thomas) wrote:

> Steve, I know Sprint recently activated a new tower in Victorville but
> I'm still waiting for the two planned towers along Hwy 395 North of
> Adelanto and South of Hwy 58. Once they get that coverage up and
> running (which I hear is only about 4 or 5 months away) they will have
> coverage just about everywhere I go.
>
> By the way does your Vi660 have the new hardware and software
> verisons? The original batch had some problems so they revised the
> hardware on the newere batches.

Buy when will SprintPCS go public with the problems of overheating and
quick failures of the whole Sanyo line of cell phones?

In article <[email protected]>,
Stanley Cline <[email protected]> wrote:

> *Every* carrier has places where they don't give a crap. With VZW
> Apple Valley/Victorville apparently is one, as is Mobile, AL; with
> Cingular, southeastern Tennessee is one...

and as ABC-TV said last night:

"The carriers are well aware of the problems. "They know almost block by
block whether, when, and where you're going to get good coverage and
where there are going to be real holes and dead zones. But they don't
tell you,"

Robert M. wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Stanley Cline <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>*Every* carrier has places where they don't give a crap. With VZW
>>Apple Valley/Victorville apparently is one, as is Mobile, AL; with
>>Cingular, southeastern Tennessee is one...
>
>
> and as ABC-TV said last night:
>
> "The carriers are well aware of the problems. "They know almost block by
> block whether, when, and where you're going to get good coverage and
> where there are going to be real holes and dead zones. But they don't
> tell you,"

They also said you're a dildo. If we believe one we have to believe the
other.

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 22:10:09 -0500, Steven J Sobol
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Well, the unthinkable has happened.
>
>After nearly four years as a mostly-quite-satisfied Verizon Wireless customer,
>I'm cancelling the service as soon as my contract ends, and porting my number
>to Sprint PCS.

Sorry it took so long to reply to this message, Steven. It's been a
busy week/month/year, take your pick.

Sorry to see you leave, but understand the reasons. You might just
find me hanging out in the Alltell group if VZW's offering of phones
doesn't improve and /or their improved signal at my home fades again.

Glad to see you will still be hanging around the VZW group. Good
luck!

BTW,

>OBTW, General Lee in the Verizon newsgroup suggested cancelling right
>away and disputing the $175 ETF on the basis that "we paid what we
>would have owed and you suffered no losses.

That was an argument suggested for use to get out of the EFT charge
for someone who had already ported. No way I'd suggest porting first,
then using that argument to try to get out of it. It would probably
wind up in arbitration, and while I think the argument has merit, I
wouldn't willingly wager $175 to find out for sure, nor would I want
to waste my time. You are wise for waiting until the contract
expiration date.

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:50:38 -0500, Steven J Sobol
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I will absolutely not ever use Cingular,
>having previously been screwed over on a DSL line by one of the telcos
>that owns Cingular (specifically, SBC). If only BellSouth owned Cingular I'd
>consider them, but SBC gets none of my money.

What a coincidence. I'm considering dumping BellSouth entirely (land
line, DSL, everything) over a port 25 blocking issue on their premium
DSL lines. BS runs their internet division like a bunch of untrained
chimps. No, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have insulted chimps like that.

And having dealt with Cingular CS, they don't sound much better than
the companies that came together to create it, BS and SBC included.

In article <[email protected]>,=20
[email protected] says...
>=20
> Here is an interesting question. If someone has a phone from=20
> carrier A before the portability was available, and ports the number to=
=20
> carrier B, then cancels the account, does that number go back to the=20
> carrier that paid for it, or is it now owned by carrier B?

That's an interesting question indeed. I don't know. If I had to=20
guess, I'd say it stays with the last carrier to service the number. =20
But, as I say, that's a guess.

> Is there still the problem where a carrier would 'run out of'=20
> numbers and have to buy more? Or does the number pooling fee paid by=20
> the carriers to the gobmnt make all numbers available to all carriers=20
> now? If so, is all the money paid to buy numbers before just gone?
>=20

Yes, numbers can run out. And no, the pooling fee isn't for making=20
all numbers available. It's another cost recovery fee because the=20
FCC stopped allowing carriers to reserve numbers in 10,000 number=20
blocks (effectively allowing a carrier to reserve an entire prefix). =20
It's now 1,000 at a time. And I'm told that was a pretty major=20
change in our accounting systems.


--=20
R=D8=DF
O/Siris
I work for Sprint PCS
I *don't* speak for them

In alt.cellular Robert M. <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Stanley Cline <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> *Every* carrier has places where they don't give a crap. With VZW
>> Apple Valley/Victorville apparently is one, as is Mobile, AL; with
>> Cingular, southeastern Tennessee is one...
>
> and as ABC-TV said last night:
>
> "The carriers are well aware of the problems. "They know almost block by
> block whether, when, and where you're going to get good coverage and
> where there are going to be real holes and dead zones. But they don't
> tell you,"

I don't think it's possible for them to proactively know about EVERYTHING,
although they are certainly able to find a lot of the problems themselves,
through their field staff.

Wasn't an issue here, though. I reportedly *****ed, moaned, whined,
complained, etc. to Verizon about the Victorville issue for months.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

In alt.cellular "R?bert M." <[email protected]> wrote:

> Buy when will SprintPCS go public with the problems of overheating and
> quick failures of the whole Sanyo line of cell phones?

Ahhhh, like the ones my mother-in-law carries? Her 8100 is just fine,
thank you, Mr. Conspiracy Theorist...

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

In alt.cellular The Ghost of General Lee <[email protected]> wrote:

> Sorry to see you leave, but understand the reasons. You might just
> find me hanging out in the Alltell group if VZW's offering of phones
> doesn't improve and /or their improved signal at my home fades again.

I'd actually almost be glad to go back to Alltel. I didn't leave Alltel
because I wanted to - I ended up with no income a couple years ago and
couldn't pay them (and Alltel has this weird thing about not providing
service to people who don't pay their bills). They did get paid, but I
think the likelihood of me being able to get another phone from them right
now is pretty low.

Alltel was great in Cleveland, just like VZW was. Of course, back then they
still had the network and most of the employees they got as a result of
getting the former GTE Wireless Cleveland properties from the Verizon merger.
I don't know how they are now. I know that I was a very happy customer of
GTE Wireless for seven years...

But it doesn't matter. Alltel doesn't serve California; the closest area
they serve is the Grand Canyon region of Arizona.

> That was an argument suggested for use to get out of the EFT charge
> for someone who had already ported. No way I'd suggest porting first,
> then using that argument to try to get out of it. It would probably
> wind up in arbitration, and while I think the argument has merit, I
> wouldn't willingly wager $175 to find out for sure, nor would I want
> to waste my time. You are wise for waiting until the contract
> expiration date.

Yeah, it'll cost us a grand total of less than $50 - two months worth of
$15/month airtime plus taxes and fees. But enlighten me: what's the
difference between using the argument for someone who's already ported,
and porting and then using the argument? I don't understand.

Besides, I think the argument could very well work anyhow. They are NOT
losing anything at all if I cancel right now. They will have received
everything they would have received anyhow even if I did cancel.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

In alt.cellular Mitchell Regenbogen <[email protected]> wrote:
> That's interesting, because here on the Right Coast, around NYC in
> particular, Sprint was a disaster for me

Yup. I'd probably not use Sprint if I was in NYC, since I've heard
some horror stories. I know they were having problems in both NYC and
Chicago for a while. Chicago has supposedly gotten better, but last
time I was there I carried a Verizon phone.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

"Steven J Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In alt.cellular "R?bert M." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Buy when will SprintPCS go public with the problems of overheating and
> > quick failures of the whole Sanyo line of cell phones?
>
> Ahhhh, like the ones my mother-in-law carries? Her 8100 is just fine,
> thank you, Mr. Conspiracy Theorist...
>
> --

Just out of curiosity, do you like your MIL, or are you hoping the
conspiracy guy is right?