detecting hidden sat nav or phone in car

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:34:04 +0100, "Andreas van Hooijdonk"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Are you sure they were looking for satellite navigation systems?

I expect so. These are valuable and portable, with a ready market.

>Weren't
>they looking for an anti-theft device to be sure that if they steal the car,
>their every move will not be registered by the owner and eventually the
>police?

No, there are three types of tracker device. The "normal" sort is
passive, and needs to be switched on by the control centre. Once
enabled, they transmit a beacon signal that the police track. Until
triggered, undetectable.

Another sort is similar, but it detects movement of the vehicle,
contacts the control centre who phone the owner before switching on
the tracker. Until triggered, undetectable.

>The modems in these devices send periodic signals to the cell phone
>network and it must be possible to detect this.

The third sort uses GPS to track its position, which is transmitted by
SMS or GPRS from an embedded mobile phone. The chances of being able
to know that this is not just from some mobile phone in the vicinity
is just about nil.

Similarly, it is not credible that anyone could detect the signal from
a GPS receiver - these things are listening to a signal that is
significantly /below/ the noise floor. They can't put out any noise of
their own. The only detectable transmission would be any Bluetooth. It
would make sense not to have that discoverable!

--

Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!

---

› See More: detecting hidden sat nav or phone in car

[email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:34:04 +0100, "Andreas van Hooijdonk"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Are you sure they were looking for satellite navigation systems?
>
> I expect so. These are valuable and portable, with a ready market.
>
>> Weren't
>> they looking for an anti-theft device to be sure that if they steal
>> the car, their every move will not be registered by the owner and
>> eventually the police?
>
> No, there are three types of tracker device. The "normal" sort is
> passive, and needs to be switched on by the control centre. Once
> enabled, they transmit a beacon signal that the police track. Until
> triggered, undetectable.
>
> Another sort is similar, but it detects movement of the vehicle,
> contacts the control centre who phone the owner before switching on
> the tracker. Until triggered, undetectable.
>
>> The modems in these devices send periodic signals to the cell phone
>> network and it must be possible to detect this.
>
> The third sort uses GPS to track its position, which is transmitted by
> SMS or GPRS from an embedded mobile phone. The chances of being able
> to know that this is not just from some mobile phone in the vicinity
> is just about nil.

> Similarly, it is not credible that anyone could detect the signal from a
> GPS receiver - these things are listening to a signal that is significantly
> /below/ the noise floor. They can't put out any noise of their own.

Wrong with emissions outside the band that the satellites use.

> The only detectable transmission would be any Bluetooth.

So much for your previous claim.

> It would make sense not to have that discoverable!

Wrong again.

On 2 Mar 2007 16:15:13 -0800, "peter" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Using an electronic listening device to detect a car anti-
>theft tracking system seems much more feasible.

Even if this were possible (which I doubt) it would have the opposite
effect: they would not steal cars with it; they'd not target cars wit
it.

BTW, des onStar work in the UK? I have a car with onStar, which
definitely does not work. Not that I'd want it to.

--

Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 11:46:16 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Wrong again.

You are wrong, but I can't be bothered to argue with you about it.
Carry on deluding yourself.

--

Iain
the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Browse now while stocks last!

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 11:46:16 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Wrong again.
>
> You are wrong, but I can't be bothered to argue with you about it.
> Carry on deluding yourself.

Thanks for running up that white flag, child.

"Frank Tabor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]
> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:08:45 -0800, peter wrote:
>
> > The original OnStar system used the old analog cellular
> > phone network operating in the 800 MHz band in the US
> > and a few other countries, but not in the UK. I
> > believe they are now switching over to digital phone
> > technology but I'm not sure if they're using GSM or the
> > other technical standards (CDMA or IS41 TDMA). Even if
> > using GSM, the frequencies are different in the US from
> > those used in the UK and Europe.
>
> I'm wondering if OnStar is staying with an trimode. They
> advertise a signal virtually anywhere in the US, and I
> know that out west there are vast areas where there is no
> digital signal.

There are also vast areas with *no* signal at all..!

Ivor

Frank Tabor wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:08:45 -0800, peter wrote:
>
>> The original OnStar system used the old analog cellular phone network
>> operating in the 800 MHz band in the US and a few other countries, but
>> not in the UK. I believe they are now switching over to digital phone
>> technology but I'm not sure if they're using GSM or the other technical
>> standards (CDMA or IS41 TDMA). Even if using GSM, the frequencies are
>> different in the US from those used in the UK and Europe.
>
> I'm wondering if OnStar is staying with an trimode. They advertise a
> signal virtually anywhere in the US, and I know that out west there are
> vast areas where there is no digital signal.

Onstar has a dual mode only requirment for Jan 2008. After that if you
have an analog only version they will not provide service. They picked
CDMA for digital using VZW.

>
> However, in the cell phone shop yesterday a salesman advised that Federal
> Madates had all phones digital by 2008.

The mandate is that carriers only have to keep AMPS running until then.


>
> Yeah, yeah, I do know how to tell if a salesman is lying.
>

Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Frank Tabor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]
>> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:08:45 -0800, peter wrote:
>>
>>> The original OnStar system used the old analog cellular
>>> phone network operating in the 800 MHz band in the US
>>> and a few other countries, but not in the UK. I
>>> believe they are now switching over to digital phone
>>> technology but I'm not sure if they're using GSM or the
>>> other technical standards (CDMA or IS41 TDMA). Even if
>>> using GSM, the frequencies are different in the US from
>>> those used in the UK and Europe.
>>
>> I'm wondering if OnStar is staying with an trimode. They
>> advertise a signal virtually anywhere in the US, and I
>> know that out west there are vast areas where there is no
>> digital signal.
>
> There are also vast areas with *no* signal at all..!

Not if you use a satphone.

"Frank Tabor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]
> On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 12:03:26 +0000, Ivor Jones wrote:

[snip]

> > There are also vast areas with *no* signal at all..!
> >
> > Ivor
>
> I'm sot so sure about that. I and friend go out west
> every fall and car camp throughout Utah, Colorado, New
> Mexico, Arizona, and Nevada. He uses an old trimode
> Tracphone, (prepaid) and I can only remember one or two
> places that we were that he couldn't get service of some
> sort.
>
> As far as analog goes, there are some areas that don't
> have coverage, but not very many.

I can show you a few in California.

Ivor

"Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

> > There are also vast areas with *no* signal at all..!
>
> Not if you use a satphone.

In a tunnel..?!

Ivor

Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote
> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
>> Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote

>>> There are also vast areas with *no* signal at all..!

>> Not if you use a satphone.

> In a tunnel..?!

Doesnt qualify as a vast area.

"Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote
> > Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
> > > Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > > > There are also vast areas with *no* signal at all..!
>
> > > Not if you use a satphone.
>
> > In a tunnel..?!
>
> Doesnt qualify as a vast area.

It does if I'm stuck in a traffic queue in it and need to phone home ;-)

Ivor

Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote
> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
>> Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
>>>> Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote

>>>>> There are also vast areas with *no* signal at all..!

>>>> Not if you use a satphone.

>>> In a tunnel..?!

>> Doesnt qualify as a vast area.

> It does if I'm stuck in a traffic queue in it and need to phone home ;-)

Nope. Its still just a tunnel.

"Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote
>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
>>> Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>> Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote
>
>>>>>> There are also vast areas with *no* signal at all..!
>
>>>>> Not if you use a satphone.
>
>>>> In a tunnel..?!
>
>>> Doesnt qualify as a vast area.
>
>> It does if I'm stuck in a traffic queue in it and need to phone home ;-)
>
> Nope. Its still just a tunnel.
>
>
However did we manage when we didn't have car-phones? Hell I can remember
when the only cars in the village were the Doctors, the district nurse, the
ambulance and of course the bookie and the publican.
--

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. <[email protected]> wrote
> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
>> Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
>>>> Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>>> Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote

>>>>>>> There are also vast areas with *no* signal at all..!

>>>>>> Not if you use a satphone.

>>>>> In a tunnel..?!

>>>> Doesnt qualify as a vast area.

>>> It does if I'm stuck in a traffic queue in it and need to phone home ;-)

>> Nope. Its still just a tunnel.

> However did we manage when we didn't have car-phones?

I hiked a considerable distance to a pay phone myself.

> Hell I can remember when the only cars in the village were the Doctors, the district nurse, the
> ambulance and of course the bookie and the publican.

Just as true of houses, clothes, domesticated animals, etc etc etc.