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  1. #16
    chippy
    Guest

    Re: New Orange 12m free offers (April 2006)

    Simon Dobson wrote:

    > Reminds me of that old Dilbert cartoon where he works out how to make
    > a million. Sell something for £1,000,000.01 with a million cashback
    > and just find someone who'll forget to mail the form in.
    >
    > Cashbacks are repulsive pain-in-the-ass schemes that we as consumers
    > shouldn't support. They work by diddling people who don't understand
    > them or forget which hoops to jump through.
    >
    > While you've had your 'free' phone and 'free' minutes, others are on
    > plans paying monthly rental, perhaps because they've no interest in
    > the latest camera phone with wank ring-tunes, subsidising your
    > freebies.


    Then that is their fault.
    To me, the cashback system is similar to the vouchers for money off,
    that you cut off the packaging for food, if you are too embarassed or
    lazy to hand them in, that is your problem, you are willing to
    subsidise those who use the system.
    --
    wigwambam



    See More: New Orange 12m free offers (April 2006)




  2. #17
    Simon Dobson
    Guest

    Re: New Orange 12m free offers (April 2006)

    chippy wrote:
    >>
    >> While you've had your 'free' phone and 'free' minutes, others are on
    >> plans paying monthly rental, perhaps because they've no interest in
    >> the latest camera phone with wank ring-tunes, subsidising your
    >> freebies.

    >
    > Then that is their fault.
    > To me, the cashback system is similar to the vouchers for money off,
    > that you cut off the packaging for food, if you are too embarassed or
    > lazy to hand them in, that is your problem, you are willing to
    > subsidise those who use the system.


    How is it their fault what the network offer as talk plans?

    I had the same phone for 5 or 6 years. No want for a new number or phone
    with the latest rubbish on. Phone did just what I wanted it to and
    worked in my car kit. Yet I was still charged the same as someone in
    their first year.

    I'm not at all willing to subsidise those who use the system, that is my
    gripe.



  3. #18
    Ms Sensible
    Guest

    Re: New Orange 12m free offers (April 2006)

    On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 00:22:10 +0100, Simon Dobson
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Ms Sensible wrote:
    >>
    >> You sir - are a complete and utter idiot. If saving £360 (£30 per
    >> month for 12 months) by sending back 3 bills over the course of a year
    >> is tomfoolery, then I'm a great big fool and damned proud of it. My
    >> partner and I each took out a 'free' contract at the same time. It
    >> has so far taken us a total of 10 minutes to reclaim almost £600 and
    >> we'll be making our final claims 4 months from now. A stamp on an
    >> envelope, a copy of a bill and 20 yards walk to the neighbourhood post
    >> box - oh what an effort!!

    >
    >Well, quite.
    >
    >Reminds me of that old Dilbert cartoon where he works out how to make a
    >million. Sell something for £1,000,000.01 with a million cashback and
    >just find someone who'll forget to mail the form in.
    >
    >Cashbacks are repulsive pain-in-the-ass schemes that we as consumers
    >shouldn't support. They work by diddling people who don't understand
    >them or forget which hoops to jump through.
    >
    >While you've had your 'free' phone and 'free' minutes, others are on
    >plans paying monthly rental, perhaps because they've no interest in the
    >latest camera phone with wank ring-tunes, subsidising your freebies.
    >
    >I'd prefer companies/networks to come up with fairer talk plans for all
    >and do away with this illusion of 'free' goodies for some. While you're
    >happy at home photocopying past bills and toddling off to the post
    >office when they demand, I don't see why I should. I'd rather have a
    >better deal from the kick-off.


    Thanks for subsidising my fantastic free phone and 600 minutes per
    month deal. It's people like you who make it all worthwhile.

    While you're sitting at home fuming at phone companies' corporate
    greed - and looking out for all the 'poor' people who haven't the wit
    to send back a couple of phonebills on time for their cashback, we're
    all getting a bargain for a few minutes work.

    You clearly have a choice. Pay through the nose or send back 2 or 3
    bills over the space of a year.

    Some people think the world owes them something. Sometimes if you put
    some effort into making something work, you receive dividends that far
    exceed any 'work' you've had to do to earn them.

    If you're just LAZY, then you get what you deserve........Nothing!



  4. #19
    Simon Dobson
    Guest

    Re: New Orange 12m free offers (April 2006)

    Ms Sensible wrote:
    >
    > Thanks for subsidising my fantastic free phone and 600 minutes per
    > month deal. It's people like you who make it all worthwhile.


    You're quite welcome, although I suspect you're doing it more for the
    money rather than to bug me.

    You'd be right though saying it's people like me that make your
    cashbacks possible. Me and millions of other consumers forced to pay
    higher connection and termination fees or those unable to take out a
    freebie contract. I was charmed finding out what my neice and nephew pay
    for calls when I topped up their PAYG's over the weekend, do they not
    count as consumers? Or should good deals only be available to those over
    18 who can work a post-box and who have a suitable credit rating?

    > While you're sitting at home fuming at phone companies' corporate
    > greed - and looking out for all the 'poor' people who haven't the wit
    > to send back a couple of phonebills on time for their cashback, we're
    > all getting a bargain for a few minutes work.
    >
    > You clearly have a choice. Pay through the nose or send back 2 or 3
    > bills over the space of a year.


    Well, I don't have a choice, no. I'm not saving anything if every year I
    have to take a phone I don't want, buy/install a new car kit and
    familiarise myself with a new handset.

    > Some people think the world owes them something. Sometimes if you put
    > some effort into making something work, you receive dividends that far
    > exceed any 'work' you've had to do to earn them.
    >
    > If you're just LAZY, then you get what you deserve........Nothing!


    Swings and roundabouts, sweet cheeks. I've a pile of papers here to send
    on to the accountant to claim back a nice lump of VAT for some rather
    dashing home purchases I've made this month that would put your cashback
    deal to shame.



  5. #20
    Ms Sensible
    Guest

    Re: New Orange 12m free offers (April 2006)

    On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 15:53:15 +0100, Simon Dobson
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Ms Sensible wrote:
    >>
    >> Thanks for subsidising my fantastic free phone and 600 minutes per
    >> month deal. It's people like you who make it all worthwhile.

    >
    >You're quite welcome, although I suspect you're doing it more for the
    >money rather than to bug me.
    >
    >You'd be right though saying it's people like me that make your
    >cashbacks possible. Me and millions of other consumers forced to pay
    >higher connection and termination fees or those unable to take out a
    >freebie contract. I was charmed finding out what my neice and nephew pay
    >for calls when I topped up their PAYG's over the weekend, do they not
    >count as consumers? Or should good deals only be available to those over
    >18 who can work a post-box and who have a suitable credit rating?
    >
    >> While you're sitting at home fuming at phone companies' corporate
    >> greed - and looking out for all the 'poor' people who haven't the wit
    >> to send back a couple of phonebills on time for their cashback, we're
    >> all getting a bargain for a few minutes work.
    >>
    >> You clearly have a choice. Pay through the nose or send back 2 or 3
    >> bills over the space of a year.

    >
    >Well, I don't have a choice, no. I'm not saving anything if every year I
    >have to take a phone I don't want, buy/install a new car kit and
    >familiarise myself with a new handset.
    >
    >> Some people think the world owes them something. Sometimes if you put
    >> some effort into making something work, you receive dividends that far
    >> exceed any 'work' you've had to do to earn them.
    >>
    >> If you're just LAZY, then you get what you deserve........Nothing!

    >


    >familiarise myself with a new handset.and too lazy to do so
    >Swings and roundabouts, sweet cheeks. I've a pile of papers here to send
    >on to the accountant to claim back a nice lump of VAT for some rather
    >dashing home purchases I've made this month that would put your cashback
    >deal to shame.

    No-one forces you to pay higher connection and termination fees. It's
    your choice for being lazy.

    As for your VAT refund, who cares? You could have a VAT refund AND a
    free phone but you're still too much of a phone snob - quote "I don't
    want, buy/install a new car kit and familiarise myself with a new
    handset.". Your loss Mr. Loser.



  6. #21
    chippy
    Guest

    Re: New Orange 12m free offers (April 2006)

    Simon Dobson wrote:

    > I had the same phone for 5 or 6 years. No want for a new number or
    > phone with the latest rubbish on. Phone did just what I wanted it to
    > and worked in my car kit. Yet I was still charged the same as someone
    > in their first year.
    >
    > I'm not at all willing to subsidise those who use the system, that is
    > my gripe.


    So do the same.

    --
    wigwambam



  7. #22
    Simon Dobson
    Guest

    Re: New Orange 12m free offers (April 2006)

    Ms Sensible wrote:
    > No-one forces you to pay higher connection and termination fees. It's
    > your choice for being lazy.


    What does my laziness have to do with connection and termination fees?

    > As for your VAT refund, who cares? You could have a VAT refund AND a
    > free phone but you're still too much of a phone snob - quote "I don't
    > want, buy/install a new car kit and familiarise myself with a new
    > handset.". Your loss Mr. Loser.


    Sure.. I'm a hardcore phone snob me, what with having the same handset
    for X number of years. It ain't me who gets my knickers in a knot
    needing the newest piece of tat so I can send grainy photos to similar
    minded half-wits; or playback 50 Cent's newest track when a call comes in.



  8. #23
    Simon Dobson
    Guest

    Re: New Orange 12m free offers (April 2006)

    Gavin wrote:
    > If you don't call and get another phone, or a reduction then your
    > just giving them the subsidy over and over again, even if don't want a
    > new phone you should you call and get a new phone and flog it and use
    > the cash to pay your contract.


    This is actually what I do, or did do. The last phone my old network
    upgraded me to was a free SPV M2000. It got sold privately, it was of no
    use.

    My point is, I shouldn't have to do all this. I don't want cashback, I
    don't want a new phone every 12 months. If I choose to keep a phone I
    like, I shouldn't be forced to subsidise the phones of other people. I
    shouldn't have to take a phone to sell on while the network keeps
    another 12 month lock on me.

    I'm aware the system isn't geared towards people like me, which is at
    the centre of my complaint.



  9. #24
    Simon Dobson
    Guest

    Re: New Orange 12m free offers (April 2006)

    chippy wrote:
    > Simon Dobson wrote:
    >
    >> I had the same phone for 5 or 6 years. No want for a new number or
    >> phone with the latest rubbish on. Phone did just what I wanted it to
    >> and worked in my car kit. Yet I was still charged the same as someone
    >> in their first year.
    >>
    >> I'm not at all willing to subsidise those who use the system, that is
    >> my gripe.

    >
    > So do the same.


    But then you wind up in another 12 month contract.

    And if you hadn't noticed, how helpful a network is to you as a customer
    is directly related to whether or not you're in contract.

    In my experience..

    Billing problem and under contract? They'll sort it out when they can be
    arsed, maybe within a few months.

    Billing problem and not under contract? Threaten to leave and they'll
    sort it out that day.. With a callback from a supervisor and some good
    will credit thrown in to boot.



  10. #25
    Ms Sensible
    Guest

    Re: New Orange 12m free offers (April 2006)

    On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:36:02 +0100, Simon Dobson
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >chippy wrote:
    >> Simon Dobson wrote:
    >>
    >>> I had the same phone for 5 or 6 years. No want for a new number or
    >>> phone with the latest rubbish on. Phone did just what I wanted it to
    >>> and worked in my car kit. Yet I was still charged the same as someone
    >>> in their first year.
    >>>
    >>> I'm not at all willing to subsidise those who use the system, that is
    >>> my gripe.

    >>
    >> So do the same.

    >
    >But then you wind up in another 12 month contract.
    >
    >And if you hadn't noticed, how helpful a network is to you as a customer
    >is directly related to whether or not you're in contract.
    >
    >In my experience..
    >
    >Billing problem and under contract? They'll sort it out when they can be
    >arsed, maybe within a few months.
    >
    >Billing problem and not under contract? Threaten to leave and they'll
    >sort it out that day.. With a callback from a supervisor and some good
    >will credit thrown in to boot.

    Seems to me you like to make work for yourself. All the hassle - oh
    dear!

    Hmm....I know! Get a free phone and 600 minutes on a cashback basis
    and stop griping anout 'the system' and all the phone companies who
    apparently collude to upset you.

    Keep your bare bones phone. That's what I do too. I don't need all
    the gimmicks either. I just sell the new ones that are given to
    me...last time £115 profit.

    Will you ever learn or will you just keep griping 'cos you didn't get
    on the bandwagon. Bet you've already investigated getting one of
    these free deals. Go on - admit it.



  11. #26
    Shak
    Guest

    Re: New Orange 12m free offers (April 2006)

    "Simon Dobson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Gavin wrote:
    >> If you don't call and get another phone, or a reduction then your
    >> just giving them the subsidy over and over again, even if don't want a
    >> new phone you should you call and get a new phone and flog it and use
    >> the cash to pay your contract.

    >
    > This is actually what I do, or did do. The last phone my old network
    > upgraded me to was a free SPV M2000. It got sold privately, it was of no
    > use.
    >
    > My point is, I shouldn't have to do all this. I don't want cashback, I
    > don't want a new phone every 12 months. If I choose to keep a phone I
    > like, I shouldn't be forced to subsidise the phones of other people. I
    > shouldn't have to take a phone to sell on while the network keeps
    > another 12 month lock on me.
    >


    I agree. However I feel the best way to change things is to exploit the
    commission based sign up process. If everybody did a cashback, the networks
    would soon lower or get rid of the commissions that fund them. You can see
    this happening already with T-Mobile's 25% off for life.

    If no one used cashbacks, the only people to gain would be the retailers
    since they no longer have to pass on the commission. We'd still be paying
    through the nose for service each month; we'd just be subsidising them
    instead of ourselves.

    Shak





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