I wish I hadn't done it... (Migrate)

"RexYBlue" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:21:18 GMT, Zeng <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Rexyblue,
> >Here's what happened to you. With the new phone, you were
> >"load-balanced" [based on an algorithm to balance loading of the RAN.
> >Radio Network]. As such, since you already tested it with a friends
> >If you have challenges, insist on speaking to the
> >manager.
>
>
> Hey Zeng,
>
> Do you work for Cingular? Can YOU do this procedure for my phone? If
> so, email me: russ90069 at yahoo dot com.
>
> NO ONE at Cingular CS is the least bit interested in helping me out.
> NO ONE, including supervisors, has ever heard of or admits to knowing
> about load balancing. "Just give it time until the merger is
> complete...." "Maybe there's a tower down somewhere...." Blah Blah
> Blah.
>
> I did learn this: I have 30 days (well, now it's down to 22) to iron
> this out or I can in fact cancel the contract with no early
> termination fee. Had the CS double check with the supervisor, and
> yessirree, out with no fee! It's looking good.

If you also got a new phone, you have the lesser of 30 days or 30 (you
should check on this) minutes of call time.

---

› See More: I wish I hadn't done it... (Migrate)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Wed, 01 Dec
2004 19:00:01 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>Are you on The BBB payroll?

No. Are you?

>How can you defend the BBB when it more
>directly is paid by the companies it polices,

Because it has a very good track record, as evidenced by the citations
I posted.

>and then go and dispute
>J.D. Power results when the indirectly get paid by the companies it
>reports on.

Once again, what I actually said (wrote) was that JD Powers is "good."
What part of "good" don't you understand?

>When a consumer has a dispute with a business entity, if the business
>entity says they looked at the problem, the BBB closes the case
>regardless of what the consumer says.

Once again, not true. Learn something about the BBB before presuming to
attack it. Good place to start: <http://www.dr.bbb.org/>.

Do you actually read anything? Or do you just make up stuff as you go along?

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

In article <[email protected]>,
John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Wed, 01 Dec
> 2004 19:00:01 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Are you on The BBB payroll?
>
> No. Are you?
>
> >How can you defend the BBB when it more
> >directly is paid by the companies it polices,
>
> Because it has a very good track record, as evidenced by the citations
> I posted.


Did you flunk statistics in college. Anecdotal individual endorsements
mean nothing? The BBB is meant to deflect criticism, not solve it, look
at the promotional materials it gives business.


"The Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc. helps companies and major
corporations manage consumer disputes through its Dispute Resolution
Division."

http://www.dr.bbb.org/



manage disputes...not solve them

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Wed, 01 Dec
2004 21:16:43 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Because it has a very good track record, as evidenced by the citations
>> I posted.
>
>Did you flunk statistics in college.

I passed with honors. And you?

>Anecdotal individual endorsements
>mean nothing?

Those are far more than "anecdotal individual endorsements" -- or didn't you
bother to actually read them (as usual)?

>The BBB is meant to deflect criticism, not solve it,

Nonsense.

>look
>at the promotional materials it gives business.

Been there; done that. And you?

>"The Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc. helps companies and major
>corporations manage consumer disputes through its Dispute Resolution
>Division."
>
>http://www.dr.bbb.org/
>
>manage disputes...not solve them

LOL! Is that kind of semantic game the best you can do? Grow up and get a
life.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

In article <[email protected]>,
John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Wed, 01 Dec
> 2004 21:16:43 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Because it has a very good track record, as evidenced by the citations
> >> I posted.
> >
> >Did you flunk statistics in college.
>
> I passed with honors. And you?
>
> >Anecdotal individual endorsements
> >mean nothing?
>
> Those are far more than "anecdotal individual endorsements" -- or didn't you
> bother to actually read them (as usual)?

4 endorsements is not a statistical proof of value. Did you bribe your
statistics prof to pass?

>
> >The BBB is meant to deflect criticism, not solve it,
>
> Nonsense.

They say so.
>
> >look
> >at the promotional materials it gives business.
>
> Been there; done that. And you?

Quoted below.
>
> >"The Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc. helps companies and major
> >corporations manage consumer disputes through its Dispute Resolution
> >Division."
> >
> >http://www.dr.bbb.org/
> >
> >manage disputes...not solve them
>
> LOL! Is that kind of semantic game the best you can do? Grow up and get a
> life.

Insulting me doesnt change the fact that the BBB's purpose in life is to
deflect disputes not resolve them.

Words have meaning, even if you ignore them.

"Jack Zwick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>>
>> In <[email protected]> on Wed, 01
>> Dec
>> 2004 21:16:43 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>,
>> > John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> Because it has a very good track record, as evidenced by the citations
>> >> I posted.
>> >
>> >Did you flunk statistics in college.
>>
>> I passed with honors. And you?
>>
>> >Anecdotal individual endorsements
>> >mean nothing?
>>
>> Those are far more than "anecdotal individual endorsements" -- or didn't
>> you
>> bother to actually read them (as usual)?
>
> 4 endorsements is not a statistical proof of value. Did you bribe your
> statistics prof to pass?
>
>>
>> >The BBB is meant to deflect criticism, not solve it,
>>
>> Nonsense.
>
> They say so.
>>
>> >look
>> >at the promotional materials it gives business.
>>
>> Been there; done that. And you?
>
> Quoted below.
>>
>> >"The Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc. helps companies and major
>> >corporations manage consumer disputes through its Dispute Resolution
>> >Division."
>> >
>> >http://www.dr.bbb.org/
>> >
>> >manage disputes...not solve them
>>
>> LOL! Is that kind of semantic game the best you can do? Grow up and get
>> a
>> life.
>
> Insulting me doesnt change the fact that the BBB's purpose in life is to
> deflect disputes not resolve them.

Not so in my case, they got me the $300.00, credit owed me by Cingular!!!

bamp
> Words have meaning, even if you ignore them.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Wed, 01 Dec
2004 23:19:08 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Those are far more than "anecdotal individual endorsements" -- or didn't you
>> bother to actually read them (as usual)?
>
>4 endorsements is not a statistical proof of value.

I have something, you have nothing. You'll have to do a lot better than that.

>Did you bribe your
>statistics prof to pass?

No. And you?

>> >The BBB is meant to deflect criticism, not solve it,
>>
>> Nonsense.
>
>They say so.

Nope.

>> >look
>> >at the promotional materials it gives business.
>>
>> Been there; done that. And you?
>
>Quoted below.

You mean misconstrued.

>> LOL! Is that kind of semantic game the best you can do? Grow up and get a
>> life.
>
>Insulting me doesnt change the fact that the BBB's purpose in life is to
>deflect disputes not resolve them.

Nope.

>Words have meaning, even if you ignore them.

Words have meaning, even if you have no clue what they really mean.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

In <[email protected]> on Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:21:18
GMT, Zeng <[email protected]> wrote:

>Rexyblue,
>Here's what happened to you. With the new phone, you were
>"load-balanced" [based on an algorithm to balance loading of the RAN.
>Radio Network]. As such, since you already tested it with a friends
>AWS SIM, the signal is there in the subject area.
>
>You have apparently been load-balanced to the ORG (CW RAN) instead of
>the one that has better signal in your apartment unit. Either call
>611 or go back to the store and insist that they load-balance you back
>to the BLU RAN. If you have challenges, insist on speaking to the
>manager. They will engage customer service to push a new BLU profile
>to your phone, an IRDB push, over-the-air. This has historically been
>just a roaming database update. ...

With all due respect, that makes no sense, because that's not the way GSM
works. As an ATTWS subscriber, your SIM is programmed with ATTWS as the Home
network, which will be selected when there is a "usable" ATTWS signal even if
Cingular has a better signal. Likewise as a Cingular subscriber, your SIM is
programmed with Cingular as the Home network, which will be selected when
there is a "usable" Cingular signal even if ATTWS has a better signal. There
is no "load balancing."

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Wed, 01 Dec 2004 18:16:59
GMT, RexYBlue <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:21:18 GMT, Zeng <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Rexyblue,
>>Here's what happened to you. With the new phone, you were
>>"load-balanced" [based on an algorithm to balance loading of the RAN.
>>Radio Network]. As such, since you already tested it with a friends
>>If you have challenges, insist on speaking to the
>>manager.
>
>Hey Zeng,
>
>Do you work for Cingular? Can YOU do this procedure for my phone? If
>so, email me: russ90069 at yahoo dot com.

There is no such procedure -- see my response to his posting.

>NO ONE at Cingular CS is the least bit interested in helping me out.
>NO ONE, including supervisors, has ever heard of or admits to knowing
>about load balancing. ...

That's because there is no such thing.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:15:58 -0500, "Alan"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"RexYBlue" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...

>> I did learn this: I have 30 days (well, now it's down to 22) to iron
>> this out or I can in fact cancel the contract with no early
>> termination fee. Had the CS double check with the supervisor, and
>> yessirree, out with no fee! It's looking good.
>
>If you also got a new phone, you have the lesser of 30 days or 30 (you
>should check on this) minutes of call time.

You always have 30 days.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

>On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 04:12:21 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>With all due respect, that makes no sense, because that's not the way GSM works. As an ATTWS subscriber, your SIM is programmed with ATTWS as the Home >network, which will be selected when there is a "usable" ATTWS signal even if Cingular has a better s
ignal. Likewise as a Cingular subscriber, your SIM is >programmed with Cingular as the Home network, which will be selected when there is a "usable" Cingular signal even if ATTWS has a better signal. There
>is no "load balancing."
>
>--
>Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
>John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
>

[My NG-reader program may not copy John's comments, so I copied
them--in case you see them twice, you'll understand.]

Anyway, I understand where the confusion can come into play, because
as John Navas points out, that is how GSM "normally works." However,
the beauty of being a large carrier with the ability to engage your
vendors to provide added functionality is exactly what CW did by
moving to 64k SIMs and ENS (Enhanced Network Selection) handsets.

Basically, this means that one has altered the way that GSM behaves
under normal conditions, i.e., previously allowing the Home PLMN to
direct the mobile's network. In this case, due to the successful
merger, as part of the integration, the 64k SIMS have something new
added: it's called the Acting PLMN. If the file downloaded to the
handset has an MCC/MNC populating the AHPLMN, then this will have
priority as *the* setting for home, w/out regard to what the HPLMN
has.

So, one of the things that's being done, but NOT "evident" in all
markets, is Cingular ability, via the network -- upon initially
provisioning the subscriber, is to determine which RAN they want that
sub to consider his 'home.' That is, the former AWS (BLU) or CW
(ORG). This is the load-balancing concept or term that I refer to.

If you think about it, going into the merger, if you planned for it,
[which they did] the markets with overlapping coverage, i.e., both BLU
& ORG, then a network planner could now choose which one *new* subs
would be provisioned to. This is so that if in a particular market,
say CW had a subscriber load of say 80% vs 50% , one might want to
provision *new* subs on the least loaded RF network. This is in fact
what exists. Other than that, to the mobile, if this *new* (in fact,
home) network signal degrades beyond a threshold, then it will of
course register on the other one--which would more akin to roam rather
than home.

Rexyblue, Tier 2 CSR reps at 611 have been trained about this, and
yes, they should be able to change your "Radio Network Color." Ask
for tier 2 to do that. You may even want to try calling into the
former AWS number (866-293-4634) and get routed to a different path.
[they both say CW now though] and continue on even though when
prompted for mobile #, it may not be recognized.

Good luck,
Zeng

>
>In <[email protected]> on Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:21:18
>GMT, Zeng <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Rexyblue,
>>Here's what happened to you. With the new phone, you were
>>"load-balanced" [based on an algorithm to balance loading of the RAN.
>>Radio Network]. As such, since you already tested it with a friends
>>AWS SIM, the signal is there in the subject area.
>>
>>You have apparently been load-balanced to the ORG (CW RAN) instead of
>>the one that has better signal in your apartment unit. Either call
>>611 or go back to the store and insist that they load-balance you back
>>to the BLU RAN. If you have challenges, insist on speaking to the
>>manager. They will engage customer service to push a new BLU profile
>>to your phone, an IRDB push, over-the-air. This has historically been
>>just a roaming database update. ...
>
>With all due respect, that makes no sense, because that's not the way GSM
>works. As an ATTWS subscriber, your SIM is programmed with ATTWS as the Home
>network, which will be selected when there is a "usable" ATTWS signal even if
>Cingular has a better signal. Likewise as a Cingular subscriber, your SIM is
>programmed with Cingular as the Home network, which will be selected when
>there is a "usable" Cingular signal even if ATTWS has a better signal. There
>is no "load balancing."

In article <[email protected]>,
Zeng <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> >On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 04:12:21 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]>
> >wrote:
> >
> >With all due respect, that makes no sense, because that's not the way GSM
> >works. As an ATTWS subscriber, your SIM is programmed with ATTWS as the
> >Home >network, which will be selected when there is a "usable" ATTWS signal
> >even if Cingular has a better signal. Likewise as a Cingular subscriber,
> >your SIM is >programmed with Cingular as the Home network, which will be
> >selected when there is a "usable" Cingular signal even if ATTWS has a better
> >signal. There
> >is no "load balancing."

I thought the Networks were to be integrated so there was no more
separate ATTWS Network? Didn't happen???


> >
> >--
> >Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> >John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
> >
>
> [My NG-reader program may not copy John's comments, so I copied
> them--in case you see them twice, you'll understand.]
>
> Anyway, I understand where the confusion can come into play, because
> as John Navas points out, that is how GSM "normally works." However,
> the beauty of being a large carrier with the ability to engage your
> vendors to provide added functionality is exactly what CW did by
> moving to 64k SIMs and ENS (Enhanced Network Selection) handsets.
>
> Basically, this means that one has altered the way that GSM behaves
> under normal conditions, i.e., previously allowing the Home PLMN to
> direct the mobile's network. In this case, due to the successful
> merger, as part of the integration, the 64k SIMS have something new
> added: it's called the Acting PLMN. If the file downloaded to the
> handset has an MCC/MNC populating the AHPLMN, then this will have
> priority as *the* setting for home, w/out regard to what the HPLMN
> has.

Again I ask, is Cingular going to replace for FREE the 10's of millions
of 32K SIMs in 64K Sim capable phones.

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:00:46 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]>
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> Zeng <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> >On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 04:12:21 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >With all due respect, that makes no sense, because that's not the way GSM
>> >works. As an ATTWS subscriber, your SIM is programmed with ATTWS as the
>> >Home >network, which will be selected when there is a "usable" ATTWS signal
>> >even if Cingular has a better signal. Likewise as a Cingular subscriber,
>> >your SIM is >programmed with Cingular as the Home network, which will be
>> >selected when there is a "usable" Cingular signal even if ATTWS has a better
>> >signal. There
>> >is no "load balancing."
>
>I thought the Networks were to be integrated so there was no more
>separate ATTWS Network? Didn't happen???

Yep, that happened. But they still exist physically. So, they're
being used as one sees fit.
Zeng

>
>
>> >
>> >--
>> >Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
>> >John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
>> >
>>
>> [My NG-reader program may not copy John's comments, so I copied
>> them--in case you see them twice, you'll understand.]
>>
>> Anyway, I understand where the confusion can come into play, because
>> as John Navas points out, that is how GSM "normally works." However,
>> the beauty of being a large carrier with the ability to engage your
>> vendors to provide added functionality is exactly what CW did by
>> moving to 64k SIMs and ENS (Enhanced Network Selection) handsets.
>>
>> Basically, this means that one has altered the way that GSM behaves
>> under normal conditions, i.e., previously allowing the Home PLMN to
>> direct the mobile's network. In this case, due to the successful
>> merger, as part of the integration, the 64k SIMS have something new
>> added: it's called the Acting PLMN. If the file downloaded to the
>> handset has an MCC/MNC populating the AHPLMN, then this will have
>> priority as *the* setting for home, w/out regard to what the HPLMN
>> has.
>
>Again I ask, is Cingular going to replace for FREE the 10's of millions
>of 32K SIMs in 64K Sim capable phones.

Nope, attrition should take care of that, along with marketing
enticements to upgrade.
Zeng

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:38:48
GMT, Zeng <[email protected]> wrote:

>>On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 04:12:21 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>With all due respect, that makes no sense, because that's not the way GSM works. As an ATTWS subscriber, your SIM is programmed with ATTWS as the Home >network, which will be selected when there is a "usable" ATTWS signal even if Cingular has a better
signal. Likewise as a Cingular subscriber, your SIM is >programmed with Cingular as the Home network, which will be selected when there is a "usable" Cingular signal even if ATTWS has a better signal. There
>>is no "load balancing."

>Anyway, I understand where the confusion can come into play, because
>as John Navas points out, that is how GSM "normally works." However,
>the beauty of being a large carrier with the ability to engage your
>vendors to provide added functionality is exactly what CW did by
>moving to 64k SIMs and ENS (Enhanced Network Selection) handsets.

With all due respect, there is no such confusion, because the great majority
of Cingular + ATTWS subscribers do not have ENS. Even with ENS, the network
is selected by current real world conditions, not some sort of "load
balancing" (which would actually result in less effective utilization).

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 03 Dec
2004 18:00:46 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>I thought the Networks were to be integrated so there was no more
>separate ATTWS Network? Didn't happen???

Not yet.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>