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  1. #31
    Your Name
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?


    "Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Your Name" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >> Sorta puts a different light on Bill Gates the greedy monster, doesn't
    > >> it?

    > >
    > > Nope. Melinda is the one behind giving money away, not Bill Gates. If it
    > > was up to Bill Gates he would be Emperor of the World by now (that world

    being
    > > named "Planet Microsoft" and overflowing with garbage that keeps falling
    > > apart).

    >
    > So, in your mind, a guy worth 8 bazillion dollars, who is trying to

    achieve
    > World Domination from his Blofeld-like secret lair inside an underwater
    > volcano somewhere, gives away billions of dollars ONLY because his wife
    > makes him? Hmmm... hardly "Emperor of the World" material, then, is he?
    >
    > After he finally completes his Infernal Weather Machine designed to hold

    the
    > entire planet for ransom, I hope he makes it snow on your house first,
    > before it's OS crashes, rendering it harmless.


    The entire reason for his wife making him was a publicity stunt to try and
    soften his "world domination" image ... a stunt that only works on the
    brainless.

    As the often used signature quote says: Microsoft is a "two-bit company that
    doesn't like 1-bit of competition".





    See More: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?




  2. #32
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?


    "Jon Ribbens" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On 2008-12-16, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Wow- those are serious charges- the foundation invests it's money to earn
    >> more so it can give away more, and, *gasp* they pay local doctors too
    >> high a
    >> salary.

    >
    > The allegation is that they invest unethically, such that the good
    > stuff they do is outweighed by the bad things they do.


    That's an opinion- alternately, the good things they accomplish might
    outweight the bad.

    >> Stuff like this is why I can't take your MS bashing too seriously.

    >
    > It wasn't meant to be taken too seriously ;-) I notice you'd rather
    > dismiss it as a whole with a wave of your hand though, rather than
    > address the actual points I made...


    I believe I said the criticisms were legitimate, if minor. My dismissal was
    no less an address than "they set the industry back a decade or more."


    > I am suspicious of the true aims of the charity, yes. But also I don't
    > think Bill can "buy virtue" by giving away some of his ill-gotten gains,
    > given that he's got more money than anyone could ever spend in their
    > lifetime anyway.


    He wouldn't be the first to try! Regardless of his motives, if good is
    being done, good is being done.






  3. #33
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?


    "Father Guido Sarducci" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In message news:[email protected], "Todd Allcock"
    > <[email protected]> said:
    >
    >> After he finally completes his Infernal Weather Machine designed to
    >> hold the entire planet for ransom, I hope he makes it snow on your
    >> house first, before it's OS crashes, rendering it harmless.

    >
    > For your sake, I hope that OS has a grammar checker built into its
    > newsreader.


    Wouldn't my misuse of "it's" (instead of "its") fall under the purview of a
    *****ing checker?







  4. #34
    Jon Ribbens
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?

    On 2008-12-17, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> Stuff like this is why I can't take your MS bashing too seriously.

    >>
    >> It wasn't meant to be taken too seriously ;-) I notice you'd rather
    >> dismiss it as a whole with a wave of your hand though, rather than
    >> address the actual points I made...

    >
    > I believe I said the criticisms were legitimate, if minor.


    No, I mean you haven't addressed the points I made about Microsoft.

    > My dismissal was no less an address than "they set the industry back
    > a decade or more."


    I've been considerably more specific than that.



  5. #35
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?

    At 16 Dec 2008 19:57:29 -0600 Jon Ribbens wrote:

    > >> It wasn't meant to be taken too seriously ;-) I notice you'd rather
    > >> dismiss it as a whole with a wave of your hand though, rather than
    > >> address the actual points I made...

    > >
    > > I believe I said the criticisms were legitimate, if minor.

    >
    > No, I mean you haven't addressed the points I made about Microsoft.



    Oh, that. I'm not sure what to say. Sure, some MS software is buggy and
    mediocre, but I'm a believer in the free market- where's the better
    mousetrap? You're right we've come to expect mediocrity from software
    vendors, but is that cause or effect- did MS pioneer such mediocrity, or
    are they, (and most everyone else) delivering as little as they can get
    away with?

    > > My dismissal was no less an address than "they set the industry back
    > > a decade or more."

    >
    > I've been considerably more specific than that.



    To me software is like any other product- it's a value proposition. I
    think the MS software I use delivers value. None of it's perfect, a lot of
    it has a few bugs, but overall, it delivers value. Am I rationalizing
    mediocrity? Perhaps, but overall I'm more statisfiedwith the "state of the
    art" today than back in the 80's when Lotus 1-2-3 cost $500 in 1980's money.





  6. #36
    Jon Ribbens
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?

    On 2008-12-17, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Oh, that. I'm not sure what to say. Sure, some MS software is buggy and
    > mediocre, but I'm a believer in the free market- where's the better
    > mousetrap?


    There's no free market when there's a monopoly, though.

    > You're right we've come to expect mediocrity from software vendors,
    > but is that cause or effect- did MS pioneer such mediocrity, or are
    > they, (and most everyone else) delivering as little as they can get
    > away with?


    Yes, of course they are. If there *was* a free market in software,
    they'd not get away with it, and have to do better. Personally,
    I suspect they wouldn't manage, and would go out of business,
    but that's somewhat speculative ;-)

    The reason, I think, that people hate Microsoft is because they abuse
    the power of their monopoly, in order to maintain that monopoly.
    This is of course expected behaviour for a monopolist, but that
    doesn't make it any less wrong, or any less detrimental to everyone
    else.

    > Am I rationalizing mediocrity? Perhaps, but overall I'm more
    > statisfiedwith the "state of the art" today than back in the 80's
    > when Lotus 1-2-3 cost $500 in 1980's money.


    Excel is now about $240 (in today's money ;-) ). I'm not sure the
    price difference indicates anything more than the fact that computers
    are now far more common.



  7. #37
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?

    At 17 Dec 2008 12:14:25 +0000 Father Guido Sarducci wrote:
    >
    > >> For your sake, I hope that OS has a grammar checker built into its
    > >> newsreader.

    > >
    > > Wouldn't my misuse of "it's" (instead of "its") fall under the purview
    > > of a *****ing checker?

    >
    > No, because "it's" itself is a word. It's just the incorrect word in

    this
    > situation.


    It's still a *****ing mistake, despite the inadequacy of ***** checkers to
    catch that type of mistake. Like two, to, and too. I knew the word I
    wanted, but in haste used the wrong *****ing.

    > If you wrote "I done gone to the store," those words are all *****ed
    > correctly; it would be a GRAMMAR checker that would be needed to catch

    the
    > error (and Word's GC is still primitive - it takes two steps and

    eventually
    > suggests "I did go to the store" rather than the more economical "I went

    to
    > the store.")


    That's a bad example- "its" was the word I wanted- I just used the
    incorrect *****ing (a common mistake I tend make often if I don't think
    about it.)





  8. #38
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?

    At 17 Dec 2008 06:44:55 -0600 Jon Ribbens wrote:

    > > Oh, that. I'm not sure what to say. Sure, some MS software is buggy

    and
    > > mediocre, but I'm a believer in the free market- where's the better
    > > mousetrap?

    >
    > There's no free market when there's a monopoly, though.



    There's no monopoly... The US DoJ said so! ;-)

    Seriously, as far as OSes go, MS has an effectual monopoly, yes, but as far
    as applications software goes, they "earned" their leadership position- it
    seems to me that Word and Excel beat Wordperfect, 1-2-3, etc. fair and
    square- the others simply never made a good transistion to GUI-based
    versions. There would certainly be a market for a better, lower priced,
    product, and that just might be Open Office- I've played with the Windows
    version and it works well. It's certainly an excellent alternative for
    home users who don't need to plunk down $150 for Office Home/Student.


    > > You're right we've come to expect mediocrity from software vendors,
    > > but is that cause or effect- did MS pioneer such mediocrity, or are
    > > they, (and most everyone else) delivering as little as they can get
    > > away with?

    >
    > Yes, of course they are. If there *was* a free market in software,
    > they'd not get away with it, and have to do better. Personally,
    > I suspect they wouldn't manage, and would go out of business,
    > but that's somewhat speculative ;-)



    I think corporate realities and release deadlines power their business- if
    competition forced them to shape up or ship out, they'd allocate the needed
    resources to keep up.


    > The reason, I think, that people hate Microsoft is because they abuse
    > the power of their monopoly, in order to maintain that monopoly.
    > This is of course expected behaviour for a monopolist, but that
    > doesn't make it any less wrong, or any less detrimental to everyone
    > else.
    >
    > > Am I rationalizing mediocrity? Perhaps, but overall I'm more
    > > statisfiedwith the "state of the art" today than back in the 80's
    > > when Lotus 1-2-3 cost $500 in 1980's money.

    >
    > Excel is now about $240 (in today's money ;-) ). I'm not sure the
    > price difference indicates anything more than the fact that computers
    > are now far more common.



    Or a trend towards commoditization (is that a word?) When PCs were new
    magical booxes costing $3000 US, charging $100 for the most mundane software,
    like a checkbook balancer with fewer features than Quicken, was easy to get
    away with in a brave, new marketplace.

    Although you consider it a monopoly, it's the competition from other,
    perhaps marginal, players that "force" MS to offer "Home and Student"
    versions of higher-dollar apps for a fraction of the cost they charge
    Enterprise users, since that market has a plethora of options, from free
    (Open Office) to low cost (Corel/Word Perfect Suite, etc.)


    Like any megacorp, MS is imperfect and self-serving, but I don't see where
    they've stifled the creativity of competitors.

    The computer industry is still a great place to innovate, and if you get
    really lucky, MS will simply buy you out rather than try to imitate! ;-)





  9. #39
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?

    Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in news:a_12l.6285$cL7.4716
    @newsfe22.iad:

    > or
    > are they, (and most everyone else) delivering as little as they can get
    > away with?
    >


    .....like one button mice, expensive laptops with no DVD burners/CD
    drives/big storage....yeah...




  10. #40
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?

    Jon Ribbens <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > The reason, I think, that people hate Microsoft is because they abuse
    > the power of their monopoly, in order to maintain that monopoly.
    > This is of course expected behaviour for a monopolist, but that
    > doesn't make it any less wrong, or any less detrimental to everyone
    > else.
    >


    What monopoly are you talking about? M$ has no monopoly. There are, and
    were, lots of other OSes to choose from. I used to be an Ohio Scientific
    dealer. Our OS was called OS-65/U and ran on a 6502 processor. It was
    simply overrun when M$ released DOS 1 on an IBM PC. OSI died from
    COMPETITION, not from a monopoly. My only regret was brand loyalty we
    didn't get on the M$ bandwagon soon enough. I should have sold everything
    I owned and bought M$ stock.....my fault....dammit.

    M$ isn't a monopoly, today, either. Linux eats their shorts in many ways,
    such as the Apache web servers this internet runs on. There are lots of
    non-M$ operating systems...Linux, OSX, Sun, IBM, several OSes from Japan
    you never hear about, even Palm OS, now called Garnet after the Japanese
    bought them. Of course, all the OSes except WinMo in SELLPHONES have
    nothing to do with M$, either.

    Certainly not a monopoly.....new ones come out all the time like Android.




  11. #41
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?

    Father Guido Sarducci <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > In message news:[email protected], "Todd Allcock"
    > <[email protected]> said:
    >
    >>
    >> "Father Guido Sarducci" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>> In message news:[email protected], "Todd Allcock"
    >>> <[email protected]> said:
    >>>
    >>>> After he finally completes his Infernal Weather Machine designed to
    >>>> hold the entire planet for ransom, I hope he makes it snow on your
    >>>> house first, before it's OS crashes, rendering it harmless.
    >>>
    >>> For your sake, I hope that OS has a grammar checker built into its
    >>> newsreader.

    >>
    >> Wouldn't my misuse of "it's" (instead of "its") fall under the
    >> purview of a *****ing checker?

    >
    > No, because "it's" itself is a word. It's just the incorrect word in
    > this situation.
    >
    > If you wrote "I done gone to the store," those words are all *****ed
    > correctly; it would be a GRAMMAR checker that would be needed to catch
    > the error (and Word's GC is still primitive - it takes two steps and
    > eventually suggests "I did go to the store" rather than the more
    > economical "I went to the store.")
    >


    "I beez gon' ta da stoe, mahn!"

    Italians talk funny. Drop by and I'll drive you out on Wadmalaw Island
    (SC) and drop you off in Gullah Country. We'll see if you can find yo way
    back!




  12. #42
    Your Name
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?


    "Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > At 17 Dec 2008 06:44:55 -0600 Jon Ribbens wrote:
    >
    > > > Oh, that. I'm not sure what to say. Sure, some MS software is buggy

    > and
    > > > mediocre, but I'm a believer in the free market- where's the better
    > > > mousetrap?

    > >
    > > There's no free market when there's a monopoly, though.

    >
    >
    > There's no monopoly... The US DoJ said so! ;-)


    That was after Microsloth "donated" to their retirement fund of course. ;-)



    <snip>
    > Like any megacorp, MS is imperfect and self-serving, but I don't see where
    > they've stifled the creativity of competitors.
    >
    > The computer industry is still a great place to innovate, and if you get
    > really lucky, MS will simply buy you out rather than try to imitate! ;-)


    If you're really *UN*lucky Microsloth will either buy you out OR simply
    steal your idea, and then either way they will totally screw it up.








  13. #43
    Jon Ribbens
    Guest

    Re: What's wrong with a Zune 'iPhone killer'?

    On 2008-12-17, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> There's no free market when there's a monopoly, though.

    >
    > There's no monopoly... The US DoJ said so! ;-)


    I see your smiley, but I thought the outcome of the case was that
    Microsoft *was* a monopoly, and the only question was what to do
    about it.

    > Seriously, as far as OSes go, MS has an effectual monopoly, yes, but as far
    > as applications software goes, they "earned" their leadership position- it
    > seems to me that Word and Excel beat Wordperfect, 1-2-3, etc. fair and
    > square


    I won't *quite* concede that, but regardless, it doesn't really matter
    *how* you become a monopolist - once you've got there, you have to
    behave yourself. And Microsoft didn't.

    > There would certainly be a market for a better, lower priced,
    > product, and that just might be Open Office- I've played with the
    > Windows version and it works well. It's certainly an excellent
    > alternative for home users who don't need to plunk down $150 for
    > Office Home/Student.


    I mostly agree, but I think OpenOffice's main competitive factor at
    the moment is its unbeatable price ;-) Someday it might also be better
    than Office, but not today...

    >> Excel is now about $240 (in today's money ;-) ). I'm not sure the
    >> price difference indicates anything more than the fact that computers
    >> are now far more common.

    >
    > Or a trend towards commoditization (is that a word?) When PCs were new
    > magical booxes costing $3000 US, charging $100 for the most mundane software,
    > like a checkbook balancer with fewer features than Quicken, was easy to get
    > away with in a brave, new marketplace.


    Indeed. All I'm saying is that crediting Microsoft for reducing the
    price of spreadsheet software is, at the very least, oversimplifying
    the situation.

    > Although you consider it a monopoly, it's the competition from other,
    > perhaps marginal, players that "force" MS to offer "Home and Student"
    > versions of higher-dollar apps for a fraction of the cost they charge
    > Enterprise users, since that market has a plethora of options, from free
    > (Open Office) to low cost (Corel/Word Perfect Suite, etc.)


    I'd suggest that is mostly to do with maintaining their monopoly.
    "Give me the child, I will give you the man" as it were.

    > The computer industry is still a great place to innovate, and if you get
    > really lucky, MS will simply buy you out rather than try to imitate! ;-)


    I think people mostly hope to get bought out by Google these days ;-)



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