Cell phone problems, Ericsson is ignoring me

> >
> > Software that requires its users to be professional fault diagnosers
> > surely cannot be professionally written?
>
> Nobody has yet proven that SE's software is to blame. In fact, that is
> *exactly* what we are trying to establish by removing all other software.
> Just because SE's software is the last thing installed and is not working,
> you reason that it is to blame conveniently ignoring the fact that it
could
> be due to a hardware driver or application installed months ago.

Here we go again, removing all software.

FYI, Sony was not the last software installed.

Sims

---

› See More: Cell phone problems, Ericsson is ignoring me

On 11 Sep 2003 13:55:36 GMT, Al <[email protected]> wrote:

>Without a hint of irony, "Sims" <[email protected]> uttered:
>
>> Whining? You have no clue what you are talking about and you are just
>> trying to act cool.
>> Sony & Ericsson are big companies, they don't need people like you to
>> defend them, what they need is to help people that are having problems
>> with their phone.
>
>Which you are not. You are having a problem with your computer.

I think he's having a fairly successful troll and got lots of bites.

Or he's a complete idiot.


--
Alan G
"The corporate life [of society] must be
subservient to the lives of the parts instead
of the lives of the parts being subservient to
the corporate life."
(Herbert Spencer)

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:59:14 +0000 (UTC), "Zoe Brown"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> That would indeed be a reasonable expectation, but for whatever reason
>> they are not doing so. Perhaps they do not have any qualified staff.
>> Perhaps you approached them with an attitude that made them
>> disinclined to help. Whatever the reason, you are stuck with the
>> *reality* that you either continue hitting your head against a brick
>> wall or you look for alternative ways to solve your problem.

>Not true both the supplier and the manufacturer should be providing
>assistance.

Nobody can provide something that they do not have. You are also
mistaken if you believe that there is a responsibility on the retailer
or manufacturer of software or hardware to get it working on a
*particular* PC. No more than Halfords is responsible to ensure that
an accessory you buy will work on your particular motor car. The most
that you could hope for (but not necessarily get) is that the retailer
will accept the return of the item.

If the retailer actually *installs* the device, then that is
different. It is also usually chargeable.

--
Cynic

"Sims" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
> The phone work fine, ( I can use all the functions on the phone), the only
> problem is that the software that enables me to connect with my PC is
> worthless, the computer crashes as soon as i plug the phone in the docking
> station and a few other nasty problems occur until i remove the programme
> altogether, (even if the phone is not plugged in).
<snip>
> Thanks for your input.

Okay, this is getting out of hand.
There are two issues here.

1) Are you getting adequate support from Sony Ericsson?

Obviously you feel the answer to this is "no". There is no point griping
about it here, keep contacting them and also whoever actually supplied you
with the phone/ software. You will not get an official response from SE in
this newsgroup

Although you are not going to like this, the fact is that the amount of
support you will get from ANY software supplier is limited due to the almost
infinite number of combinations of hardware and software. If you buy
software that costs huge amounts of money, a decent support contarct may be
included but normally this is not the case. If you read the blurb that comes
with software, you will usually find that the suppliers promise very little.

2) Can people here solve the problem instead.

The answer to this one is "possibly". My experience with newsgroups is
that there is an amazing amount of knowledge and experience available for
free. Alll you need is to be polite and have some patience.
Don't be so protective about your P.C. It is pretty much a fact of life
that some software causes glitches. This is especially the case with
software that accesses external hardware addons. Regardless of who helps you
out, you are at least going to have to try some basic fault-finding steps.
Nobody is going to come to your house and sort the problem out (unless you
have an knowleadgeable friend) or send you a new computer.
Whilst you feel it is wasted time, trying the software & phone on another
computer would at least demonstrate that there is not a problem with the
phone or docking station. This is an important first step.

Provide the information that people here have asked for, accept that you
may have to try a few things on your PC to see if the situation improves and
maybe you will get somewhere. Nobody here can offer you anything better than
that.

Just my 20 öre (or 2 cents or whatever)

Niall

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:06:14 +0200, "Sims" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> In another post, you gave a list of hardware and software that was
>> installed on your PC. One item that I specifically mentioned but
>> which you did not list was a modem. Unless you are not using that PC
>> to post to the newsgroups, you must have either a modem or a network
>> driver installed.

>I do not know how to disable my Modem so i removed it and installed the Sony
>software again with no apparent changes.
>I re-installed my modem again.

Did you remove the *drivers* for the modem?

>> It is similar to if you had purchased a door, hinges, screws,
>> fittings, tools and instructions as a package from a DIY shop. You
>> then find that the door you fitted will not close properly. At the
>> moment you are blaming the goods for the problem rather than
>> considering that your particular door frame may have something unusual
>> that prevents the door from being fitted in the way the instructions
>> suggest, or perhaps you neglected to follow the instructions properly.

>I am not blaming anybody, please read my posts.

>Using your example, I am currently at the stage where i am standing in front
>of my door and it does not fit.
>I have contacted the DIY shop for some help and they simply ignored my
>mails. That is the stage where i am now.

Which is not good for PR for the DIY store, but neither is it
unreasonable. The DIY store do not guarantee that their product will
be sitable for any specific application, no matter how the label might
imply that it should work.

>> You may or may not be able to get some ad-hoc advice and suggestions
>> from the DIY store staff if you approach them reasonably, but if the
>> problem is a difficult one and you lack the necessary experience you
>> may have to pay for an independent qualified person to do the job for
>> you.

>Ok and if it was the DIY shops fault all along? Should they pay me back?
>Would you ask them to pay you back.

If the goods are shown to be faulty then yes, they should take them
back. But if the goods are simply unsuitable for the application you
are using them for, then no, there is no onus on the store to take the
goods back. Such is the nature of DIY.

>Also you are casually ignoring the fact that any technical person would look
>at my PC and say 'contact Sony and see what they say'.

Not true. A question might be, "Have you tried asking Sony?", and
after you replied that they were unable to assist, would begin
diagnoses themselves.

--
Cynic

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:10:46 +0200, "Sims" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> > I have contacted the DIY shop for some help and they simply ignored my
>> > mails. That is the stage where i am now.

>> You haven't. You've contacted the door manufacturer who have told you
>> there's nothing wrong with the door and it must be your frame.

>So who should i contact?
>T-Mobile, Sony or Advent?
>What are you talking about?

The place you actually bought the goods are the only people that are
legally responsible *to you* in any way whatsoever.

If they do not possess the expertise to solve the problem, then *they*
are entitled to ask the people *they* bought it from, and so on up the
line.

Even though a customer is sometimes advised to short-cut the process
and deal directly with the manufacturer, the manufacturer has no duty
toward that customer - because he is *not* a customer of the
manufacturer. The retailer is their customer, not the end-user.

One big reason why manufacturers choose to go through distribution
channels is so that they *don't* have to deal with the problems of
individual end-users. The idea is that the retailer weeds out the
simple problems and only escalates the more difficult ones. Otherwise
the manufacturer would need a huge support staff.

In this case, I would suspect that the manufacturer *of the software*
is not Sony. Thus the end of the chain will not stop there.

The process can take considerable time, because it is usual not to
escalate any problem unless several similar cases have been reported.

Perhaps not what you'd like to hear, but it is the way things work.

--
Cynic

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:03:01 +0200, "Sims" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> A PC is the same. If you want to add hardware without being bothered
>> by the possibility that you may not succeed in getting it working,
>> take the PC to a qualified technician and pay to have the new hardware
>> installed professionally. Only about 80% of DIY installations by
>> non-experts will work out fine, and very few of the problems of the
>> other 20% are due to faulty software or hardware.

>Sorry i have to stop your here, Sony never told me to contact a technician
>neither did they even suggest it.

Nor will most guys who sell you a car radio. unless they can provide
such a service themselves.

>If i buy a light bulb i am not going to contact an electrician to help me
>change it. Manufacturers should expect me to change the light bulb and as
>such deal with a non technical person.

Yes, and in most cases they would be justified. If however you have a
fitting that makes it difficult to change a light bulb, you may well
need to call an electrician to change it for you. My wife had to do
that with the bathroom light as it was not a simple job to remove the
external shade. Such physical problems become obvious pretty quickly,
problems with PC installations are not quite as obvious.

>> Simple really, isn't it?

>No, you oversimplified the problem. A car radio maybe, i would understand,
>for the Sony product all i had to do was to plug it in and place the CD in
>the CD drive. That is all i had to do. So if it goes pear shape i am not
>left with much to ponder what went wrong.

PC software is more complex than the average car radio. Most of the
clever bits are carried out automatically so the user gets the
incorrect impression that it is all very simple stuff.

Just like fitting a car radio into a car that has the correct size
panel cutout and all the connectors in place is easy. Which is often
the case when the radio is designed for the particular model of car.
If the car is a different model, things are not so easy.

Software is designed so that it can recognise and configure itself for
all sorts of different models of PC. A bit like buying a car radio
that changes its shape as you bring it into your car so that it fits
the cutout in the console and the plugs in the electrics.
Unfortunately the programmer can never think of every possible
hardware and software combination that it might be used in, and so
there are the inevitable failures to self-install. That's when you
need someone with the knowlege to install it by hand.

If the programmer gets too many complaints that the install fails with
particular combinations, he may update his program so that it takes
them into account.

--
Cynic

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:09:52 +0000 (UTC), "Zoe Brown"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I am not sure that Ericsson would agree, they markets these phones to non
>techy people and attempt to make the instal process as simply as possible.

With the emphasis on the word "attempt". As opposed to "guarantee"

--
Cynic

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:16:21 +0200, "Sims" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Ok thanks,
>Keep Formatting your PC and i will keep asking for a reasonable amount of
>customer care.

About once a month I get a problem that I decide would be solved the
quickest by means of a complete clean OS install. It is a pain in the
backside to be sure, but the downtime is usually in the region of 4 to
5 hours on a *complex* setup, and during most of that time I am able
to get on with other work.

A clean install is often the fastest way to go. Obviously you back up
all your work before doing so, so that after the fresh system is up &
running you can simply restore your backup to be back to square 1
again.

Many home users cannot do this because they have lost the necessary
drivers and/or would not know how or in what order to install them.
The motherboard itself needs to have drivers loaded. So I'd agree
that it is bad advice to give a non-technical user.

My advice is to contact a professional technical support centre and
pay them to resolve the problem by installing your hardware/software
and getting it working.

--
Cynic

"Sims" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am amazed that everybody here is against me as if it was my fault that
the
> software does not work and that Sony's behaviour is quite acceptable.

You are amazed about that??? I've never seen anyone more stubborn than you.
You've had all the advise that is possible given the information you gave
here. The reply's are numerous and you keep on fighting everybody's answer.
Please stop it, you're making a complete fool out of yourself. Go and do
something with the advises or leave it, as many have said before.

Mexx

>
> Okay, this is getting out of hand.

I agree, i don't think there is much point in me defending my actions.
I obviously bought the wrong phone and was hopping for support from
Sony/Ericsson and only some limited help from this NG.

>
> 1) Are you getting adequate support from Sony Ericsson?
>
> Obviously you feel the answer to this is "no". There is no point
griping
> about it here, keep contacting them and also whoever actually supplied you
> with the phone/ software. You will not get an official response from SE in
> this newsgroup

I agree, i was only hopping for advices no actual resolve.
I also expected people to understand that i would prefer help from Sony
themselves, especially given some flocks claiming to know how big
corporations ask you to format your PC before they even contact you.

> Although you are not going to like this, the fact is that the amount of
> support you will get from ANY software supplier is limited due to the
almost
> infinite number of combinations of hardware and software. If you buy
> software that costs huge amounts of money, a decent support contarct may
be
> included but normally this is not the case. If you read the blurb that
comes
> with software, you will usually find that the suppliers promise very
little.

Yes but Sony Ericsson is, (or at least i thought), a good company. I was
hopping a little bit more support from them.
I learned my lesson and i will look somewhere else in future.

>
> 2) Can people here solve the problem instead.
>
> The answer to this one is "possibly". My experience with newsgroups is
> that there is an amazing amount of knowledge and experience available for
> free. Alll you need is to be polite and have some patience.
> Don't be so protective about your P.C. It is pretty much a fact of life
> that some software causes glitches. This is especially the case with
> software that accesses external hardware addons. Regardless of who helps
you
> out, you are at least going to have to try some basic fault-finding steps.
> Nobody is going to come to your house and sort the problem out (unless you
> have an knowleadgeable friend) or send you a new computer.
> Whilst you feel it is wasted time, trying the software & phone on
another
> computer would at least demonstrate that there is not a problem with the
> phone or docking station. This is an important first step.

I already tested the phone on an ME box and it works, i could not do much
tests but it all seem to be ok.

> Provide the information that people here have asked for, accept that
you
> may have to try a few things on your PC to see if the situation improves
and
> maybe you will get somewhere. Nobody here can offer you anything better
than
> that.

I am more than willing to do some tests, but as you noticed here most people
here do not have a clue what they are talking about, (in my specific case
anyway), they just throw their toy and insult me if i don't do what they
say.
No, sorry, I am not going to format my drive or remove my programmes on the
say so of some people that know nothing about my problem.
Only one or two posters actually asked what problems I was having and tried
to help.
If Sony could contact me they would say "oh that file is crashing, then
remove that driver", they would not say remove all the driver/programmes and
then contact us.

I was also told to remove my drivers something i simply do not know how to
do it, (more importantly neither am i certain i will know how to replace
them).

Folks around here seem to forget that i do not know who they are, so excuse
me if i am not jumping at every weird and wonderful tests.
If Sony was to contact me maybe i would get somewhere faster.
I never heard any company telling me to remove all my applications until
their application works, that is very short sighted and tell me i am dealing
with amateurs/kids.

I must also point out that i asked for help on how to contact Sony, not on
how to tear my computer apart.
The fact remains that the computer does not work with the software given and
i had no way of knowing that until i bought the phone.
My computer works fine in every other cases.

I will contact T-Mobile and see what they have to say. Although i bet they
will tell me to contact Sony, but i will have to wait and see.
T Mobile is a better company, (IMHO), they might swap my phone or/and
contact Sony directly.

Sims.

I would rather say the program may be not designed for the particular PC
hardware. I would not say (his) PC does not work. I am sure his PC was
working fine with other programs !

Some software is just not written to take care of all kind of additional PC
hardware and setup. When you buy the program, you should be entitle for some
helpdesk support for initial setup problem. Whether the helpdesk is capable
to fix the problem or give you a correct advise is another topic. To my
experience, Ericsson support is really bad.

"Nevs" <_@_.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Please stop telling me, (IN UPPERCASE ), that i need a new PC, you are
> > getting boring. I told you B4 there is nothing wrong with my PC, They
sold
> > me a software that does not work, if you fail to understand that, then i
> am
> > not sure what else i can say.
>
> Sorry for the uppercase but I'm trying to get through to you.
>
> Your pc does not work. I'm _not_ telling you to buy a new one, or format
it.
> But you've got a long road ahead of you diagnosing the conflict.
>
> Why should Sony help you diagnose the conflict? They've tested the phone
on
> a clean install of XP on many differnt hardware combinations - it works.
>
> It doesn't work on your machine because another piece of software or
> hardware is conflicting with the device/drivers.
>
> You're on your own, if you want to pursue the legal route good luck, but
be
> prepared to be laughed at.
>
>

Without a hint of irony, "news.new" <[email protected]> uttered:

> I would rather say the program may be not designed for the particular PC
> hardware.

Highly unlikely. There's comparitively hardly any PC software out there
interfacing directly with the hardware.

> I would not say (his) PC does not work. I am sure his PC was
> working fine with other programs !

His PC may work fine. Interactions between other software and the OS running
on it are another matter entirely.

Sims,

That sounds very interesting. I have T68i and T610, not P800 and just find
out that they use different software to connect (P800 use "intuwave"
software -- http://www.intuwave.com) from your post below. Thanks for
sharing.

In any rate, from your said below, I went ahead and search the web and what
I found was few cases that software from intuwave use to connect to P800 is
conflict with McAfee antivirus/firewalll problem and that what you describe
below that you have it as well. So what I would do is to first try to turn
off McAfee software (they should have option to turn it off completely
temporary), if not, some post suggest
(http://computing.net/windowsxp/wwwbo...rum/62661.html) to uninstall it
completely and was solve her (I think it was her :-) ) problem -- you can
always re-install McAfee if it doesn't solved problem.

Let try that first and see if it solve your problem (just turn it off
first). If it does, it's your decision what to deal with McAfee's software
(if turn it off temporary works, then you just need to turn it off when you
sync, if only uninstall work, you'll have to decide what to do). One
thought, if it work, I'd also contact McAfee to see if they know the problem
and how to set their software to not conflict with P800 software. This is
not surprise that some communication does conflict with Antivirus software,
it isn't first case I see.

If it doesn't work, we'll try to dig into it more.

Regards,
wpit
PS. I'll be busy next few days, not sure if I will have chance come in and
check your reply. :-)

"Sims" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > Sims,
> >
> > Please calm down as no one yet suggest you to get new OS or computer
> except
> > asking you to try on other machines to see if it phone problem or not
> which
> > is also possible (and we are not side with Sony Ericsson).
>
> Others here sugested that i format my drive or remove all my software.
> The phone woks on an ME machine. It is not my machine so i could not try
any
> of the Synch functions, all i did was a backup and it worked.
>
> Hi, thanks for your post,
>
> > As Cynic suggest, you should try to find out what software/hardware
> > installed on your computer that conflict with Sony Ericsson's
>
> I am not a technician, how do i do that? I do not know what is conflicting
> and what is not.
> All i get is an error message and a crash. Nothing else. Everything else
> works fine.
>
> I do not know where/what to look for. Maybe if Sony contacted me they
would
> tell me where to look and what to do next.
> I am sure they would not say, "sorry you need a clean machine, remove
> everything first and then call us again".
>
> > From your post, I see that you said you have problem when your phone is
> > connect, and you have better than minimum requirement specific by the
> > software. Missing information would be list of running software,
hardware
> in
>
> I have a fairly Normal hardware, Keyboard, mouse etc.. all supplied when i
> bought the PC. I have some new Digitech speaker but they had no driver.
> I have a P4 1.7Mhz and 512 Mb memory, GeForce4 Ti 4200 video card
>
> As for software, McAfee AV & Firewall, (v 7.05, professional ed), WinZip,
> Office 2000 nothing else that i can see running, ( although i am certain
> something is running).
> Windows XP Pro with almost all the latest Security patches.
>
> I do not know what else to look for or where to look for my drivers.
>
> > your machine and driver for those hardware. Someone here then may be
(yes
> > "may be", as we do not see your problem in our machines) can suggest you
> > something.
>
> No one here asked me what error i was getting or what i was running. All i
> got was some wise cracks and nothing short of formatting, (even by some
kids
> who claimed to know anything about computers).
>
> I do have XP Pro, but i think only Sony should connect to my machine, I
> heard a few bad things about remote access.
>
> > You also state that your OS/computer crashes after you dock your phone,
> can
> > you add more detail on what actually is the error? Is it bluescreen or
is
> it
> > just application crash (AV)? If it bluescreen, what is the error code in
> the
> > screen? If it application crash, what application was crash?
>
> No, it is not a crash really, when i dock the phone i get a
"mRouterRuntime
> MFC Application error"
> A Microsoft report gets generated and in it is says that
> "mrouteaccesspoint.dll Appver:2.1.0.339" caused an error.
>
> I do not get a blue screen and no other application, (that i can see),
seems
> to crash.
>
> > Last (should be first actually) is to check with your computer
manufacture
> > and see if they have latest BIOS available. I saw many times in our lab
> that
> > machine acting weird with new hardware/driver added in, and was solved
by
> > just update BIOS to the latest one (yes BIOS has bugs too).
>
> I have, ( according to Advent), the latest BIOS.
>
> >
> > Again, with out detail information, even Sony Ericsson wanted to help
you,
> > they cannot help much or even reproduce problem in their lab as they do
> not
> > have same software/hardware configuration as your computer does, and it
> > would be nearly impossible for anyone to reproduce your problem (with
out
> > luck or have the same conflict software/hardware as your computer has).
> >
>
> I totally agree that Sony Ericsson cannot guess what is wrong with my
> machine but they are not even taking the first step and asking me.
> You are the first person that asked my what error message i was getting.
If
> i was to give that message to them maybe they would be able to say
straight
> away what the problem is and fix it.
> But they are not contacting me, they do not care what my problem is.
> Unfortunately i bought the phone partly because of the software so i
cannot
> let it 'go away', i have to get it to work or get another phone.
>
> Sims
>
>

To answer you on 1st question. The answer is yes.
Chipset in the PC may be different. USB interface is a good example. Some
program just does not with with VIA chipset (and their driver).

So if the program make use of the specific hardware feature or instruction.
It will fails to work. This is very common.

"Al" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Without a hint of irony, "news.new" <[email protected]> uttered:
>
> > I would rather say the program may be not designed for the particular PC
> > hardware.
>
> Highly unlikely. There's comparitively hardly any PC software out there
> interfacing directly with the hardware.
>
> > I would not say (his) PC does not work. I am sure his PC was
> > working fine with other programs !
>
> His PC may work fine. Interactions between other software and the OS
running
> on it are another matter entirely.
>