Sprint and Openwave

When is Sprint going to get some handsets with Openwave?

VZW has them and you wouldn't believe how much better the internet web
page representation is compared to even the latest Sprint phones.

---

› See More: Sprint and Openwave

My 4050 has openwave which I think is discontinued now. There may be
newer phones with it.

On Sat, 28 May 2005 19:32:11 GMT, Paul Miner <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>VZW has them and you wouldn't believe how much better the internet web
>>page representation is compared to even the latest Sprint phones.
>
>From what I hear, Openwave agrees with you that their browsers are a
>cut above, and they've priced them accordingly, which is why so few
>recent models included them. FWIW, when I switch back and forth
>between OW and others, I'm not personally blown away by any
>differences - in either direction. They all look pretty much alike to
>me, which says just as much about Sprint's web gateway than it does
>about the browsers themselves.

You might be right. I bet something it being done on the VZW web
backend stuff that is helping alot.

IMHO the Sprint representation of the pages I want to access is
inadequate, the VZW though not perfect is much better.

The other thing I noticed at the VZW kiosk in the mall is that for
what I tested with the LG VX8000 (EV-DO) and the LG VX7000 (non EV-DO)
rendered at about the same speed. No advantage for EV-DO, except for
this: With VZW if you don't subscribe to EV-DO and have an EV-DO
capable handset they charge you like crazy for web usage. With EV-DO
it is $15 a month.

Take a look at any Ebay auction page you like on both a VZW phone and
any Sprint phone. The VZW does a *much* better job. Buttons are
clickable whereas on Sprint they might be the obscure looking 24
digit code you scroll by. Absolutely stupid on Sprint's part.
The only difference seems to be Openwave on VZW (I surmise) .

Maybe it's something else.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 16:28:47 GMT, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Take a look at any Ebay auction page you like on both a VZW phone and
>any Sprint phone. The VZW does a *much* better job. Buttons are
>clickable whereas on Sprint they might be the obscure looking 24
>digit code you scroll by. Absolutely stupid on Sprint's part.
>The only difference seems to be Openwave on VZW (I surmise) .

With Vision, I've also run into ebay auction pages where confirming
the bid results in an error about mis-matched tags, and no bid is
placed. These pages happen to have a lot of fancy applets on them.
I'm guessing that Vision (or my phone) is rendering the page
improperly when it is stripping out those applets, but who knows.
I've reported the problem to Sprint.

Joe Huber
[email protected]

On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:28:38 GMT, Paul Miner <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sun, 29 May 2005 16:28:47 GMT, "[email protected]"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>The other thing I noticed at the VZW kiosk in the mall is that for
>>what I tested with the LG VX8000 (EV-DO) and the LG VX7000 (non EV-DO)
>>rendered at about the same speed. No advantage for EV-DO, except for
>>this: With VZW if you don't subscribe to EV-DO and have an EV-DO
>>capable handset they charge you like crazy for web usage. With EV-DO
>>it is $15 a month.
>
>The "no advantage" thing can be very misleading when a person looks
>for obvious differences in accessing normal web content. In that
>scenario, latency has almost as much to do with perceived performance
>as throughput capability because most web objects are relatively
>small.
It was an ebay auction page. Minimal content, couple of pictures.
For that the EV-DO seemed to not help at all. Now if I wanted to
watch live video it might help. I cannot imagine my being interested
in watching live video on a cellphone.

>Also, be sure EV-DO RF actually exists in that location before
>deciding there is no advantage.
It does.
>I should also mention that there are
>scenarios where EV-DO will actually provide worse performance than
>1xRTT, but that's the exception rather than the norm.
>
>
>>Take a look at any Ebay auction page you like on both a VZW phone and
>>any Sprint phone. The VZW does a *much* better job. Buttons are
>>clickable whereas on Sprint they might be the obscure looking 24
>>digit code you scroll by. Absolutely stupid on Sprint's part.
>>The only difference seems to be Openwave on VZW (I surmise) .
>
>Thanks, I'll pass that on.
To whom?

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:16:09 GMT, Paul Miner <[email protected]>
wrote:

>>>Thanks, I'll pass that on.
>>To whom?
>
>To the folks who might be able to do something about it. Sorry I can't
>be more specific.
Sprint is listed on the openwave.com website as a customer.
I wonder if it's paid for.
Hmm.

[email protected] wrote:

>>To the folks who might be able to do something about it. Sorry I can't
>>be more specific.
>
> Sprint is listed on the openwave.com website as a customer.
> I wonder if it's paid for.
> Hmm.

FWIW, The LG PM325 is a current production model phone and uses OpenWave.


--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:48:05 -0400, Isaiah Beard
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>FWIW, The LG PM325 is a current production model phone and uses OpenWave.

I tried one today at the Sprint store.
It sucked. The web representation is as defective as all the others,
the OpenWave didn't help at all. It was about the same.

It must be Sprint's backend stuff. VZW has just completely outclassed
Sprint in that area.

This seems surprising since Sprint is the "new kid on the block" and
has always been innovative. They still are on their pricing, but they
badly need to fix the web stuff. Not like it would cost them to fix it
either, I am pretty sure it is all software issues. Big deal.

BTW, I tried Cingular last week, it was better than Sprint but not
nearly as good as the new stuff from VZW. Quirky. It looked hacked
together.

I would switch but damn, VZW is expensive. It would cost me a lot to
switch to VZW. It could happen.

[email protected] wrote:
e
> I tried one today at the Sprint store.
> It sucked. The web representation is as defective as all the others,
> the OpenWave didn't help at all. It was about the same.
>
> It must be Sprint's backend stuff. VZW has just completely outclassed
> Sprint in that area.

I'd consider suggesting to Sprint how to fix it, but honestly, I'm not sure
what to suggest. I can do a little WML (Wireless Markup Language), which the
older phones use -- it's completely different from HTML but the new browsers
don't require WML, they can use XHTML. So I can design an XHTML site and
people can view it using their phones... I just have to keep in mind a
couple considerations for people that I know will be using phones...

I don't know if there's anything I personally can do that would make the
sites more usable in Sprint phones' browsers, and I'm not sure I have a clue
what changes to suggest to Sprint to help them fix their stuff.

> I would switch but damn, VZW is expensive. It would cost me a lot to
> switch to VZW. It could happen.

VZW has a good, solid network, but they seem to ignore repair issues. You're
in "The OC" (yeah, I have to capitalize the name, just like the TV show ;>)
and probably wouldn't have the issues I have since you're basically right
next door to Los Angeles. Up here, since we're a smaller market, VZW seems
to ignore repair issues. I don't know how they are down there.

VZW has a lot to recommend them in the LA market, but there is that
potential problem and the fact that even though they are the most expensive
traditional cellular carrier in the US now, they have started
nickling-and-diming their customers...

http://stevesobol.com/goodbye_vzw/ for details. That URL is a redirect to
the Google Groups thread in a.c.verizon and a.c.spcs about me leaving VZW
for Sprint.

Sprint, of course, has their own issues in SoCal. I think VZW has better
overall coverage here, but Sprint works where I need my phone to work. My
advice is if you're considering VZW, make full use of their trial period to
make sure your phone will work where you need it to work. I certainly won't
tell you that VZW sucks all over SoCal, because there are plenty of places
here where you shouldn't have any issues at all. Just don't necessarily
expect flawless performance up here in the Victor Valley.

--
JustThe.net - Steve Sobol / [email protected] / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Coming to you from Southern California's High Desert, where the
temperatures are as high as the gas prices! / 888.480.4NET (4638)

"Life's like an hourglass glued to the table" --Anna Nalick, "Breathe"

The browser in my Sanyo 7400 performs exceptionally fast. It is much faster
than a friends LG 6100 on Verizon.

"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:48:05 -0400, Isaiah Beard
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>FWIW, The LG PM325 is a current production model phone and uses OpenWave.
>
> I tried one today at the Sprint store.
> It sucked. The web representation is as defective as all the others,
> the OpenWave didn't help at all. It was about the same.
>
> It must be Sprint's backend stuff. VZW has just completely outclassed
> Sprint in that area.
>
> This seems surprising since Sprint is the "new kid on the block" and
> has always been innovative. They still are on their pricing, but they
> badly need to fix the web stuff. Not like it would cost them to fix it
> either, I am pretty sure it is all software issues. Big deal.
>
> BTW, I tried Cingular last week, it was better than Sprint but not
> nearly as good as the new stuff from VZW. Quirky. It looked hacked
> together.
>
> I would switch but damn, VZW is expensive. It would cost me a lot to
> switch to VZW. It could happen.
>
>

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 23:26:41 -0700, Steve Sobol <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>e
>> I tried one today at the Sprint store.
>> It sucked. The web representation is as defective as all the others,
>> the OpenWave didn't help at all. It was about the same.
>>
>> It must be Sprint's backend stuff. VZW has just completely outclassed
>> Sprint in that area.
>
>I'd consider suggesting to Sprint how to fix it, but honestly, I'm not sure
>what to suggest.

I can't either. It would shock me that they don't already know about
the issues. I guess it's possible. Nah. They know.

>I can do a little WML (Wireless Markup Language), which the
>older phones use -- it's completely different from HTML but the new browsers
>don't require WML, they can use XHTML. So I can design an XHTML site and
>people can view it using their phones... I just have to keep in mind a
>couple considerations for people that I know will be using phones...

Sometime if convenient, at the mall or whatever, do what I did. Go
to a verizon kiosk or store, try looking at an ebay page on an
LGVX8000 or LGVX7000. Openwave browser. It simplified the page,
rendered it pretty well for a tiny screen. Pictures were tiny but it
made an attempt to put them there.

Take a look at the same page on any Sprint phone, doesn't matter
which. Basically screwed up if you can get it at all. Links (buttons)
are represented as 24 digit incomprehensible numbers. The VZW stuff
makes an attempt at least to represent that stuff so it can actually
be used. You really have to be able to read the buttons, or you don't
know which is submit, cancel, etc. Sprint just left that all out if
it works at all.

>I don't know if there's anything I personally can do that would make the
>sites more usable in Sprint phones' browsers, and I'm not sure I have a clue
>what changes to suggest to Sprint to help them fix their stuff.
How about a translating gateway, like Cisco bought from that company?
It made XML out of the website being requested if the browser was a
mobile device. Not sure how well it worked and XML is probably too
little too late now. But on that idea.

Ever heard of the Thunderhawk browser for Windows mobile PDAs? That
actually works, it caches and translates the pages you request. $50 a
year. But for windows only.
http://www.bitstream.com/wireless/
I think openwave as used on VZW is something like that.
The VZW web gateway does that translation. I have not done an
exhaustive test however.

>> I would switch but damn, VZW is expensive. It would cost me a lot to
>> switch to VZW. It could happen.
>
>VZW has a good, solid network, but they seem to ignore repair issues. You're
>in "The OC" (yeah, I have to capitalize the name, just like the TV show ;>)
>and probably wouldn't have the issues I have since you're basically right
>next door to Los Angeles. Up here, since we're a smaller market, VZW seems
>to ignore repair issues. I don't know how they are down there.

I am sure the network is fine here, I am after better web performance.

Sprint was fine here but has been getting steadily worse in dropped
calls, no service, etc. in the last couple years. Still not sure if
the problem is the phone I still have or not but I don't have the guts
to buy a new one to test. I am out of contract so I have no reason to
buy a phone from Sprint for any amount of money since I can get a
*free* phone in exchange for a shiny new contract at *any* carrier.
>
>VZW has a lot to recommend them in the LA market, but there is that
>potential problem and the fact that even though they are the most expensive
>traditional cellular carrier in the US now, they have started
>nickling-and-diming their customers...
They sure have. A friend mentioned that, he just switched to VZW from
Sprint. He is probably saving money in spite since his wife is on
VZW. Silly for him to be on a different carrier than his wife.

I have been hoping to be able to stay with Sprint but I want the web
stuff to actually work. Is that asking too much? Especially since I
have determined that it finally *can* work, on a wholly similar
network, VZW.

I wish Sprint would fix it. Maybe I should try to scare up some of
their developers. Is it possible that they actually don't know how
poorly it works? Nah. Impossible.

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 08:53:38 -0700, "Mij Adyaw" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>The browser in my Sanyo 7400 performs exceptionally fast. It is much faster
>than a friends LG 6100 on Verizon.

It's not the speed.

It's the representation of the website on Sprint compared to the new
VZW phones with Openwave. Not that there aren't likely websites that
Sprint does represent OK, just that I haven't seen them. The Sprint
browser technology needs work.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Sometime if convenient, at the mall or whatever, do what I did. Go
>to a verizon kiosk or store, try looking at an ebay page on an
>LGVX8000 or LGVX7000. Openwave browser. It simplified the page,
>rendered it pretty well for a tiny screen. Pictures were tiny but it
>made an attempt to put them there.
>
>Take a look at the same page on any Sprint phone, doesn't matter
>which. Basically screwed up if you can get it at all. Links (buttons)
>are represented as 24 digit incomprehensible numbers. The VZW stuff
>makes an attempt at least to represent that stuff so it can actually
>be used. You really have to be able to read the buttons, or you don't
>know which is submit, cancel, etc. Sprint just left that all out if
>it works at all.

In my experience with Sanyo 8200, some sites that used to work fine
with the old Wireless Web, don't render properly any more (same url).
American Airlines http://www.aa2go.com/ is one of them. Looks to me
that the site is sniffing if it's being accessed from a phone or regular
PC, and returns different pages based on that. And it's not detecting
PM-8200's browser as a phone, and returns the regular page instead.
The same could be happening in your case. Not exactly Sprint's fault.

If that's indeed the problem, you should contact the webmaster of the
site that didn't render properly on Sprint's phone. If I were the
webmaster and got a report like that, I'd setup a simple test page
that I'd ask you to visit, then looked at the information passed by
the browser, and adjusted the sniffing code accordingly.

Oleg


--
oleg | The "From" address is temporary.
@ | <---- If expired, use this one.
sashos |
.com | "Can you count to 1023 on your fingers?"

[email protected] wrote:

> Sprint was fine here but has been getting steadily worse in dropped
> calls, no service, etc. in the last couple years. Still not sure if
> the problem is the phone I still have or not but I don't have the guts
> to buy a new one to test. I am out of contract so I have no reason to
> buy a phone from Sprint for any amount of money since I can get a
> *free* phone in exchange for a shiny new contract at *any* carrier.

If I had any reason at all to be in Orange County I'd offer to test my
phone. My wife's phone (a Hitachi SH-P300) is pretty good reception-wise,
but my Samsung VGA-1000 is even better. If *my* phone doesn't work in your
area either, I'd say chances are very good that it's the network.

But while we're planning on visiting Disneyland sometime soon, we're not
sure when, and I'm not sure you're even close to Anaheim.

>>VZW has a lot to recommend them in the LA market, but there is that
>>potential problem and the fact that even though they are the most expensive
>>traditional cellular carrier in the US now, they have started
>>nickling-and-diming their customers...
>
> They sure have. A friend mentioned that, he just switched to VZW from
> Sprint. He is probably saving money in spite since his wife is on
> VZW. Silly for him to be on a different carrier than his wife.

I was on VZW and my wife on Sprint for four years. We got an old Sprint
phone from a friend that I activated for her. She liked the service and
ended up saving a lot of money by paying $5/month for PCS to PCS (over six
HUNDRED PCS to PCS minutes last month!). VZW worked for me so I didn't
bother switching.

> I wish Sprint would fix it. Maybe I should try to scare up some of
> their developers. Is it possible that they actually don't know how
> poorly it works? Nah. Impossible.

I'd suggest calling Tech Support, but I am guessing they probably don't have
the ability to route you to someone who'd be able to fix things. (And
haven't you already called them?)


--
JustThe.net - Steve Sobol / [email protected] / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Coming to you from Southern California's High Desert, where the
temperatures are as high as the gas prices! / 888.480.4NET (4638)

"Life's like an hourglass glued to the table" --Anna Nalick, "Breathe"

Where do you live in OC?


"Steve Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Sprint was fine here but has been getting steadily worse in dropped
>> calls, no service, etc. in the last couple years. Still not sure if
>> the problem is the phone I still have or not but I don't have the guts
>> to buy a new one to test. I am out of contract so I have no reason to
>> buy a phone from Sprint for any amount of money since I can get a
>> *free* phone in exchange for a shiny new contract at *any* carrier.
>
> If I had any reason at all to be in Orange County I'd offer to test my
> phone. My wife's phone (a Hitachi SH-P300) is pretty good reception-wise,
> but my Samsung VGA-1000 is even better. If *my* phone doesn't work in your
> area either, I'd say chances are very good that it's the network.
>
> But while we're planning on visiting Disneyland sometime soon, we're not
> sure when, and I'm not sure you're even close to Anaheim.
>
>>>VZW has a lot to recommend them in the LA market, but there is that
>>>potential problem and the fact that even though they are the most
>>>expensive traditional cellular carrier in the US now, they have started
>>>nickling-and-diming their customers...
>>
>> They sure have. A friend mentioned that, he just switched to VZW from
>> Sprint. He is probably saving money in spite since his wife is on
>> VZW. Silly for him to be on a different carrier than his wife.
>
> I was on VZW and my wife on Sprint for four years. We got an old Sprint
> phone from a friend that I activated for her. She liked the service and
> ended up saving a lot of money by paying $5/month for PCS to PCS (over six
> HUNDRED PCS to PCS minutes last month!). VZW worked for me so I didn't
> bother switching.
>
>> I wish Sprint would fix it. Maybe I should try to scare up some of
>> their developers. Is it possible that they actually don't know how
>> poorly it works? Nah. Impossible.
>
> I'd suggest calling Tech Support, but I am guessing they probably don't
> have the ability to route you to someone who'd be able to fix things. (And
> haven't you already called them?)
>
>
> --
> JustThe.net - Steve Sobol / [email protected] / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
> Coming to you from Southern California's High Desert, where the
> temperatures are as high as the gas prices! / 888.480.4NET (4638)
>
> "Life's like an hourglass glued to the table" --Anna Nalick, "Breathe"